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  1.  

    Jeff

    I don’t think anyone here is saying it’s okay. I think we’re just admitting that sometimes our more basic, animalistic sides get the best of us. Kind of like how small dogs are likely to snarl and lash out when they feel threatened by larger dogs or humans.

  2.  

    vnm

    Well put!

  3.  

    reasonableexplanation

    I’m really appalled by what I’m hearing, both here and on gothamist about this incident. A sizable minority is condoning actual real life road rage.

    This attitude of well, “the driver did something stupid and dangerous so I can retaliate” is no different than what those holywood stuntz motorcylists did to that family in the range rover a few years back.

    I’m a motorcylist as well as a cyclist and driver, and honestly, how would you folks react if motorcyclists were talking about doing the same stuff you’re talking about doing?

    You folks should kind of be ashamed of yourselves. Road rage is not okay.

  4.  

    Charles Siegel

    That may be the most relevant question in New York today. But it wasn’t the most relevant question in New York 50 years ago, and it isn’t the most relevant question in most US cities today.

  5.  

    Joe R.

    I’ve already knocked off my share of mirrors. I don’t do it intentionally but if someone double parks and I have barely enough room to get by them without going into the traffic lane chances are good my head is turned backwards checking for traffic as I’m going around them. Combine this with passing their vehicle with a clearance of inches at 20 mph. That means avoiding their mirror is way on the bottom of my list of concerns. I suppose some might say slow or stop and wait for a gap in traffic. My attitude is screw them. They decided to break the law and create a hazardous condition. I’m not suffering one second of delay on account of it if I can help it. If their mirror accidentally comes off maybe they’ll have some pause about double-parking again.

    I actually once knocked someone’s door clear off the hinges in the 1980s. It was a little POS econobox, a Chevy Chevette I think. The driver decided to exit the vehicle while I was about 10 feet away going 26 or 27 mph. I didn’t have time to do much of anything but run into the door. Instead of the major impact and fall I expected, the door came off and I bumped over it. I kept right on going with the driver screaming in the background. I’ll bet that person never forgot to check for oncoming cyclists again.

  6.  

    Jeff

    Ah yes, scraping the edge of my handlebars along the side of a car parked in the bike lane. I mean, I checked the bike lane for bikes, and there were no bikes, and therefore the bike lane is clear, right? I can’t imagine anyone would have any sympathy for me if I parked my bike on the BQE and a motor vehicle made contact with it.

  7.  

    kevd

    Since you began with “re: L Train Tunnel shutdown” you can understand why I assumed it was regarding the L Train Tunnel shutdown.

    Can’t say I disagree with you!
    But, I also can’t say I see it happening before unicorns fly out of my butt.

  8.  

    Vooch

    the bike lane proposal is intended to relieve L train crowding after the repairs are complete. 18,750 fewer daily L train riders is worth spending $3-5 million

  9.  

    Simon Phearson

    Self-help is to be expected when the NYPD and DOT do so little to protect cyclists or pedestrians put at risk by the reckless and negligent behavior of drivers. They are creating an environment of lawlessness; petty violence is the logical result.

    At the entrance to the Queensboro bridge, on the Queens side, drivers are very accustomed to cheating the red lights and frequently position themselves in stopped traffic directly in the crosswalks, where cycling traffic must cross. Sometimes the conditions are so tight that it is impossible to ride around these stopped cars. If I have to dismount my bike in order to get around your car, you can guarantee one part of it will “accidentally” hit your car.

  10.  

    kevd

    Since only one station in Brooklyn will need to be closed, those 125000 brooklyn only riders won’t have to change anything. And with no Manhattan bound riders, I don’t think crowding will be a problem for them.

  11.  

    c2check

    I don’t condone hitting a person, but I can’t say I haven’t been tempted to hit an offending driver’s car with something after near-misses on a bike.

    Actually I think that, considering the NYPD and DOT often do little to address unsafe streets and reckless driving, we should be allowed to give a vehicle a dent if its driver behaves dangerously. It’s only a dent! It would give a minor annoyance to a driver who could have seriously injured a vulnerable road user, and give others a warning about their driving…

    It’s still ever so ironic to me that a driver can almost kill a bicyclist with no consequences, but a simple scratch to a car (or a hit-off mirror) causes OUTRAGE! A cyclist who hits a vehicle (perhaps even justifiably) has his photo posted all over the news, while cops take little action to reprimand drivers who actually hit and injure people, even when there’s clear video evidence of the offense.

  12.  

    Penny

    Accurately described and well-said!

  13.  

    BBnet3000

    Not to mention that they couldn’t just build on the land they had and over the railyard, they just HAD to use the government’s eminent domain power and dispossess people and knock down the existing urban fabric.

  14.  

    bolwerk

    I don’t see the logic of that. Moving a person is moving a person. The floor for how much an unlinked ride costs the public can be debated, but we already accept a number much higher than zero.

  15.  

    Bike Snob NYC

    Last time we rode bikes there we used the bike rack at the Mosholu gate. When we left, due to the way my heavy cargo bike was facing, I had to make a u-turn in the parking lot in order to exit the gate. The guard freaked out, like I might try to ride into the gardens and tear up the azaleas with my cargo bike.

    I imagine this has nothing to do with NYBG policy and is just guards being guards, plus so few people riding there the security isn’t accustomed to dealing with it.

    –BSNYC

  16.  

    Benjamin Kabak

    If it requires any per-ride subsidy, it shouldn’t be built.

  17.  

    BBnet3000

    Pray nobody opens their car door while people are riding in them.

  18.  

    Michael

    Well said, and of course today we have the hindsight to see the outcomes of the city-wide downzonings.

  19.  

    BBnet3000

    All I see in all the public transcripts is her husband asking for the zoning to allow more residential development in the fallow industrial parts of the Village.

    That quote is really taken out of context. The “we” in that quote is not society in general, it’s a bunch of specific uses that flourish in older buildings. You can see this in the Financial District today. There’s back offices and city offices in a lot of the somewhat aging towers, and a lot of services (ie Dentists and Tailors) in the even older buildings. Plus some class A tenants in some brand new buildings, though frankly the demand for that has moved uptown.

    Likewise look at the companies that flourish in the Garment District, NoMad, etc. Outside of the areas with somewhat of a tech boom, we’re looking at companies that would not be able to compete for class A space, but flourish in NYC in older buildings. If they didn’t have these buildings they’d probably be out in the suburbs (and many companies in some of the same industries are).

    This gets a little more complicated with residential, but I just don’t think it was obvious in her time that demand was going to require such extensive new building in older neighborhoods. At the time there was tons of new affordable housing being constructed in uptown Manhattan and Queens in particular (not to mention the flight to the suburbs) and the proverbial starving artists could afford to live/work in huge studios in Soho. Yes, we should probably densify the village more today, but in 1961 the only alternative to was looking like dispossessing people of their homes and businesses and bulldozing half of it to build ugly towers on superblocks like those that litter much of the Lower East Side.

    I’m not saying that every NIMBY since hasn’t claimed to be channeling the ghost of Jane Jacobs to “protect the character of the neighborhood” against any densification. That’s pretty much exactly what’s happened.

  20.  

    Vooch

    re: L Train Tunnel shutdown. Another partial solution Is to create Bike Infrastructure ( Citibike stations, PBLs, Bike racks) to Link L Train stations with the Alternative subway lines. Solves last mile issue.

    Also note that 125,000 L Train riders ride completely within Brooklyn. The entire distance Is a mere 6 Miles. This suggests a lot of Those 125,000 L riders are traveling less than 3-4 miles. Perfect Distance for cycling.

    How Many of Those 125,000 only Booklyn riders could be Converted to cycling If Proteced bike Lanes existed along the 6 mile route ? It Might cost $3-5 Million to create a 6 mile PBL plus feeder PBLs. Even If only 15% of ‘Brooklyn only’ L Train riders Choose to cycle instead of subway, it would significabtly reduce overcrowding on L Train.

    $3-5 Million might convert 18,750 riders to cyclists. Maybe more. Every rider that converts to cycling increases Subway mobility. What other project costs a mere $3-5 million and would support 18,750 daily trips ?

  21.  

    Paul Schimek

    Why no negligent homicide charge?

  22.  

    urbanresidue

  23.  

    bolwerk

    Yes, but BANANAism is often more about “fiscal conservatism” than urban planning.

  24.  

    urbanresidue

    I wouldn’t say either the Garden nor the Zoo are “against” active transportation. They just dedicate all their resources and attention into driving instead. From time to time, they may make some low-cost gesture toward active transportation that sounds good to somebody who drives everywhere, yet the fact remains they continue to spend good money on bad, sometimes dangerous design.

  25.  

    BxCyclist

    It happened just before 9am, not 9:30. Many Garden staff take Metro-North to work and were on the same train with Heather and walking toward the gate when the collision occurred. So there were many eyewitnesses who gave the police a clear account of what happened (so they weren’t left to make their own conjectures and inevitably blame the cyclist like they always do). Also the Garden was in close contact with the family and the police in the days after and no doubt having such a prominent city institution on the cyclist’s side played a role in charges being filed.

  26.  

    Vooch

    What is density of West Village ?

  27.  

    Vooch

    that Is good to hear, but the last Time My Wife and I went we were treated so poorly by the guard Like we were some sort of pariahs, that we decided to ride Home and vowed never to return.

  28.  

    Joe R.

    I think a more relevant question for nowadays is would you rather live in Soho and pay $3K a month, or live in a high-rise and pay the inflated-adjusted equivalent of the $80 a month you paid in 1970? NYC isn’t accommodating all the people who want to live here by building at turn of the 20th century densities like Soho. Moreover, a lot those buildings are rat traps and probably are approaching the end of their useful life anyway. To be sure, there are lots of other factors conspiring to keep housing costs high here, like real estate speculators, but some of our zoning isn’t helping things.

    The whole “towers” approach could have been much better if they incorporated schools, medical, and retail on the lower levels of those buildings. Not having to physically leave the building for a lot of things is certainly a big selling point.

    Jane Jacobs did a lot of good but some of the things from her legacy, like community boards and overzealous landmarking, are now actually preventing the city from moving forwards. Both made sense in the context of her times when they ploughed highways through cities without bothering to consult the locals, and razed structures like Penn Station. However, community boards are now often an obstacle to repurposing streets away from private automobiles, which is ironic considering their original intent. As for landmarking, I understand the need to preserve some of the more important parts of the city’s past but far too many unremarkable buildings are landmarking. Both community boards and landmarking are conspiring to make much of NYC frozen in time.

  29.  

    Charles Siegel

    There was not an overall regional shortage of housing

    in New York, as there is today. In fact, middle-class housing was being abandoned to the lower class – and lower class housing was being abandoned, period.

    It was just the opposite of what is happening today, when there is a housing shortage so serious that low-income and middle-income housing is being gentrified by the upper-middle class.

    In the longer run, neighborhoods like Soho, with old-fashioned urban fabric did a much better job of competing with the suburbs than high-rises like Rudolph’s – as Jacobs said they would.

    Would you rather live in Soho or in Paul Rudolph’s Tracy Towers in the Bronx?

    http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/Feature180.htm

  30.  

    Shelly Gibson

    I live on this road. The first night I moved in someone got hit because of speeding cars from the highway. This is a highway entrance ramp! There needs to be speed bumps…and there needs to be more space for the cars and the emergency vehicles. This bike lane needs to be narrowed IMMEDIATELY. A U Haul just hit the scaffolding on the building next door…and he was ON THE ROAD. The cars are practically skimming the knuckles of the many pedestrians that use the south side of the street. I ride a bike…and on this street…these lanes are absurdly implemented.

  31.  

    Shelly Gibson

    Terrible implementation. Downright dangerous. This is a highway entrance ramp! Firetrucks can’t fit on this road to get to accidents now! Cars have been pushed to the curb on the south side and our sidewalk is extremely narrow. Accidents are already happening. Can’t even get out of a cab without stopping traffic in both directions. This bike lane if WAY to wide. Use the HUGE sidewalk on the north side of the street…the side very few even walk on. The south side of the street is heavily traveled and the cars are now knocking at the knuckles of the pedestrians. Really…this is a horrible idea. ONE bike lane – and make use of the north sidewalk space!!!

  32.  

    Shelly Gibson

    I live on this street and these huge lanes have made the street a dangerous nightmare. I ride a bike on this street.and want bike lanes. But to take more than a full traffic lane and to shove the speeding-just-off-or-on-the HHP traffic practically onto the south sidewalk is going to kill someone. The north, and practically unused sidewalk needs to be utilized to give the traffic more space. The fire department is very upset about this too as their trucks can’t fit on this very important entrance to the highway. One half of the sidewalk needs to be used for a bike lane, one half of the side walk for pedestrians and ONE lane painted on the street will take care of the bikes, pedestrians, and keep those of us who live on the south side safe. Oh, and yesterday a U’Haul truck hit the scaffolding on the building next door to me. It was driving ON THE STREET, but the truck’s tires on literally one inch from our curb (and our very narrow sidewalk) so the top of the trucks can actually hit a scaffolding. They can also brush your hand as you walk down the street. This has to be corrected IMMEDIATELY. I video taped a police officer pulling over a car today…and literally shutting down the entire street because the abundant highway traffic had no place to go. Try getting out of a cab…that shuts down traffic too. Push the traffic back into the center of the street and narrow that bike lane. This is the entrance to a highway! This is a terrible plan and those who thought it up were certainly not considering some very important safety issues.

  33.  

    Emmily_Litella

    BANANA – Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

  34.  

    rao

    The neighborhood in the article, King-Spadina, wasn’t her neighborhood. Her neighborhood in Toronto was the Annex, a generally low-density district on the northern edge of downtown. It actually does incorporate some high-rise apartments, but it could handle further intensification because it has the best transit access in the city. Toronto actually made this neighborhood the hub of its subway system in the 1950s because it was thought this would become the new downtown commercial center. A series of events, some of which were related to Jacobs’ influence on public policy, and others not, helped to freeze the neighborhood in time and push the intensification into other parts of the downtown, which to this day have worse transit than the Annex.

  35.  

    walks bikes drives

    The Garden actually encourages cycling to get there and they have a number of racks just inside the main gate that are free. At some points, they have discounts on admission as well if you arrive by bike. I would definitely not say the board is against active transportation.

  36.  

    Andrew

    I agree wholeheartedly with your overall point, but I think you’re slightly overstating your case – the L doesn’t carry 4800 people into Manhattan in 5-8 minutes. (Four fully guideline-loaded trains hold 4640 people, and the L runs on a 3 minute headway in the morning rush.)

  37.  

    AnoNYC

    There was a housing shortage at that time. There was a lack of adequate housing for the middle class. Cities around the country were looking to build robust high rises like pictured in the LOMEX rendering, to compete with suburbs.

  38.  

    AnoNYC

    So basically NYC.

  39.  

    Vooch

    good News CB8 Trans committed passed 9-2 Crosstown ( painted ) bike Lanes on 6 UES streets

    plenty of new pro-bike people at meeting. the anti’s were the same cranks as always. The pro bike cadre Is growing and Totally positive energy. The Anti’s are dwindeling and clearly understand Their FREE Parking Is at risk.

  40.  

    AnoNYC

    Any word on how long it’s gonna take before the city fixes the entire street and installs the lanes?

  41.  

    bolwerk

    Seems pretty harmless to me. Pointless, but harmless. If it needs no more per-rider subsidy than an average bus, I’d say let it slide.

  42.  

    bolwerk

    NIMBY is a perfectly condign term. Many really loud people really don’t want any change at all and don’t care about facts or logic or economics or other people’s needs.

    I disagree with the kind of development that brought us Barclay’s too, but I don’t think not wanting things built is the right way reason to object. The sheer scale of that project makes it way more than just a simple highrise development. It radically altered the neighborhood.

  43.  

    bolwerk

    “Urban renewal” (possibly the most cynical term ever) usually reduced diversity of use, but seemed to keep population density relatively similar. The absurd result of this was the same number of people with fewer places to employ them or things for them to do.

  44.  

    Clarence Eckerson Jr.

    LOL. I have heard in the past some people have gotten tickets for riding outside of the bike lane. But what the hell are you gonna do???

  45.  

    Clarence Eckerson Jr.

    I agree. I have actually never seen anything this bad and I am getting emails and tweets saying “You should see it in my neighborhood!”

  46.  

    BrandonWC

    It’s not clear from the cropped schematic in the post, but the buffered area is just for that small block with sharows continuing on both directions. Swapping the buffer here would have bikers more out of line with the shared lane, making the merge back into car traffic deicer.
    If I ran things, I would swap the curbside buffer for a curb extension to better align the crosswalks.

  47.  

    JayLPI

    I don’t know why the city bothers to deal with communities. They only care about driving and parking. Stop kowtowing to local residents and install parking protected bike lanes on all arterial roads already. People need to stop driving and use transit and biking. On Jane Jacobs 100th birthday we should celebrate what she would have wanted….

  48.  

    Charles Siegel

    There was not a housing shortage back then. Rents were so low that whole neighborhoods – notably the south Bronx – were being abandoned because they couldn’t charge enough to cover maintenance. The middle class was moving to the suburbs, so rents were going down in much of the city.

    In 1970, I lived in a two-bedroom apartment a few blocks from Columbia University that rented for $80 per month. (My share was $40 per month – equivalent to about $400 today after correcting for inflation.) Now, the owner is trying to kick out rent controlled tenants and raise the rent to $3000 per month.

    Paul Rudolph’s design might look good as an abstract sculpture, but it doesn’t look like good placemaking. The design in “How Would Jane Jacobs Zone” (immediately below this article) looks like good placemaking to me.

  49.  

    Doug G.

    And why don’t they put the buffer on the other side? Right now it’s against the curb. It should provide more space between people on bikes and moving cars.

  50.  

    Bluewndrpwrmlk96

    Good thing the meeting is held in a church, because these lanes are in need of a prayer.