Skip to content

Recent Comments

  1.  

    Ben Fried

    Tampering with other commenters’ anonymity isn’t allowed here. Neither is cursing at other commenters. Repeat offenses will be grounds to be banned.

  2.  

    walks bikes drives

    And for the record, I cannot stand pedestrians on the bicycle only portion of the Greenway. But of there is going to be no enforcement, even just officers telling people to use the pedestrian path, it will never change. It is worst on weekends, but not too bad on weekdays.

  3.  

    walks bikes drives

    I used an example of poor pedestrian behavior as one of my anecdotes. My argument is that a lot of this bad behavior is human nature, and I said it was American human nature. These are all examples that work to what I am saying as well. I am not vilifying all cyclist behavior, just as I do not vilify all pedestrian behavior or all driver behavior, because I would be vilifying myself in each case. I am saying that we have a public relations issue between cyclists and pedestrians (I am not even going to bother with the driver/cyclists or driver/pedestrian issue because, in those, it is not PR issues but almost purely pompas as issues) which is making getting better cycling accommodations much much harder. So many people use the if you build it, they will be better argument that just simply is not holding true. So, somehow, we need to stop coming up with excuses for bad cyclist behavior and find a way to fix it. I am not saying we need every cyclist to be a stepford cyclist and stop at every red light because it is red. I’m saying we need cyclists to only cross crosswalks and run red lights when they areach able to safely for both themselves and the other road users. Part of that has to do with spacing. I was going back and forth with another cyclist on Gothamist a few weeks ago who said he wouldnt hesitate to thread a crosswalk if there is 3 feet between the pedestrians. In this case, he wouldn’t likely come into contact with either pedestrian, but this is way too close for a pedestrian’s comfort, which will give that pedestrian a negative feeling towards cyclists. And if the cyclist, who is doing that because he is so sure of himself, misjudged speed and spacing, that is a dangerous situation. As a pedestrian, on that case, I wouldn’t be so adverse to pointing ahead of me all of a sudden. Oops, sorry for the clothesline.

  4.  

    danbrotherston

    Don’t create a false dichotomy. Things aren’t annoying right up to the point that they’re fatal. Just because there are no fatalities doesn’t mean there aren’t occasional injuries. And it also doesn’t mean there aren’t also negative aspects of bad behaviour.

  5.  

    walks bikes drives

    I am of the same interpretation of the law that you are, that the pedestrian must be in the crosswalk. To me, a pedestrian is in the crosswalk as soon as they fully commit to enter the crosswalk by beginning their step into the crosswalk. Otherwise, they could just be waiting there on the corner for a friend, or just out watching the bikes, etc. However, while I agree somewhat that pedestrians should look both ways and only proceed to cross when it i’s safe, to me it is safe to cross as long as the cyclists could reasonably slow down. When I cross the Greenway on foot, I do it the same way you do, waiting for a break when I will not inconvenience to many cyclists, but this is a personal choice that I am making, because I could exercise my rights and inconvenience any number of cyclists as long as I was stepping out where the cyclists reasonably could yield, even if it included hard braking.

  6.  

    cjstephens

    Isn’t the problem that BdB, like Cuomo, is a “car guy”? Every once in a while he pays lip service to public transportation, but if I recall correctly he never relied on public transportation as a grown up (or at all?). He relied on his city-funded car for his whole professional career, and I don’t think he sees the city from the same perspective as the rest of us bus-and-subway riding slobs. I recall some campaign story about how he used to enjoy the time he spent bonding with his son… as he drove his son to high school. How many average New Yorkers drive their kids to school? He’s yet another politician with nothing but a windshield perspective on the city. We really owe it to ourselves to stop electing people who are so far removed from the experience of regular New Yorkers.

  7.  

    walks bikes drives

    I wasn’t missing anything in this case I was giving above. The pedestrians were actually in the middle of the crosswalk. They had crossed the northbound side but couldn’t complete their crossing of the southbound side because cyclists were not yielding. There was plenty of opportunity for the other riders to do so. I was the lead of the group coming down that I was referring to, and I was travelling at 18-20mph at the time. I saw them begin to cross and came to a full stop for them without needing to even brake that hard. Others chose to not brake at all, when they were legally obligated to. And I see this all the time.

  8.  

    BBnet3000

    As usual you’ve got nothing whatsoever to say about bike infra and just want to bully someone else out of the conversation. Go fuck yourself.

  9.  

    walks bikes drives

    When you are riding, if you are not in a peloton where the members can communicate with each other, you need to give enough space between riders that you have a clear view up ahead. If you can’t do that while drafting another rider, you must suck it up and not draft. Anything less is just completely unsafe.

  10.  

    walks bikes drives

    The other night, I was coming up the Greenway at a fairly high rate of speed, northbound at about 22mph. A well dressed couple on their way to the Frying Pan, or one of those shishi places there stepped out into the crosswalk as I crossed it, causing them to kind of jump back in surprise, because they didn’t look before crossing to see that I was there. I was coming up the path well with lights on. I could not see them at the crosswalk because their clothes completely blended in with the plantings alongside the crosswalk at night. In this case, it was impractical for me to stop or otherwise yield to them because I was within a few feet, at most, from the crosswalk as they started. However, I still ruminate for the next several mules about what I could have done differently, and shouted a quick “sorry.”

  11.  

    Kevin Love

    “Generally”? As far as I am aware the number of people being killed by food delivery cyclists is hanging in there at a strong zero.

    Food delivery cyclists have achieved Vision Zero. Let’s get infrastructure to ensure car drivers also achieve Vision Zero.

  12.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    Ferdinand, I would maintain that it is impractical for cyclists riding in a line to yield or stop because they cannot communicate to one another their actions, and the cyclists in back cannot see through the cyclists in front of them. And I don’t mean in a line like a peloton. I mean like the normal riders riding in rush hour every day. It is unsafe for me to slow down to nearly zero with people behind me being unable to predict that. It is much more practical and safer for the pedestrian to simply wait. Also I’m aware there are zones that are very narrow where the signs say bikes must yield at all times. I understand and support that, but that’s not what I’m referring to.

  13.  

    Kevin Love

    To quote Sir Winston Churchill, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” It is the task of a great leader to use challenges and adversities to advantage.

    Alas, Mr. de Blasio is not a great leader. Yes, I have high standards!

    http://i1.wp.com/www.lrionline.com/wp-content/uploads/Churchill.jpg

  14.  

    Ferdinand Cesarano

    For bicyclists to yield to pedestrians crossing the Greenway is not impractical; it’s just annoying.

    You might retort that that stopping suddenly while going at a high rate of speed would be impractical. The solution: do not pass crosswalks at a high rate of speed. We should slow down and be ready to stop when approaching a crosswalk within the Greenway. And, if there are people waiting to cross, we should stop and let them go.

  15.  

    Kevin Love

    Yes, Bloomberg is currently at the top of my personal list of “Republican politicians I respect.” The thing I most respect about him is his data-driven approach to city building. He and JSK keep looking better as we deal with their successors.

    Does anyone seriously believe that people will be lining up to buy a future book by Polly Trottenberg? Not on the basis of her performance so far!

  16.  

    Ferdinand Cesarano

    You’re right that a driver has no obligation to expect pedestrians on a highway.

    But the Hudson River Greenway is not analogous. As much as we would like it to be a “bike highway”, it is in fact no such thing. The Greenway is flanked by an ordinary street on one side and a series of parks on the other. Pedestrians have a legitimate right to cross the Greenway, unlike any highway.

    Also, several sections of the Greeway itself are mixed-use, meaning that pedestrians are explictly allowed to be there. (Though they improperly walk/run on the other sections where they are not meant to be, places where a separate pedestrian path is available.)

    I recently rode my bike to Washington, D.C. In that ride, I was on U.S. 40 in Delaware and Maryland for about 55 miles. While pedestrians are not actually prohibited on that road, they are pretty rare. Riding on that road made me realise that all highways should have adjacent bike lanes to facilitate long-distance and high-speed bike travel. It would have been ideal if the Interstates were built with this feature.

    But, because this was not done, there unfortunately are no “bike highways”, no places where only bicycles may go, and where pedestrians are prohibited. So our obligation to yield to pedestrians is pretty much unavoidable, and it exists even on the Hudson River Greenway.

  17.  

    big nicky

    Why don’t you go down to the 6th floor and ask them?

  18.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    Furthermore comma the signs on the Hudson River Greenway are actually reflecting state law, which I cite here.” No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impractical for the driver to yield.” Noticed that it does not even say impossible for the driver to yield, and bicyclists are considered drivers of vehicles in the eyes of the law, it says impractical to yield. I made a very clear-cut case that it is Impractical for groups of bicyclists to yield to pedestrians crossing the Hudson River Greenway. I rest my case based on logic and the letter of the law

  19.  

    KeNYC2030

    Let’s not forget that these workers are forced economically to violate traffic laws. They often earn less than minimum wage and depend on tips for survival, and will quickly be replaced by another worker if they aren’t productive. They are an exploited underclass, and community board whiners should be focusing on the employers and on labor law enforcement.

  20.  

    Joe R.

    The problem is still lack of enough infrastructure to absorb the volume of users. Whatever its merits, the Hudson River Greenway has become a victim of its own success. It was originally supposed to be mainly for recreation. It ended up functioning as a major bike trunk route because of the lack of anything similar nearby. We really should have something similar perhaps on 8th Avenue, on both sides of Central Park, and maybe on 1st or 2nd Avenue. “Similar” means something non-stop, and free of pedestrians or motor traffic. Logistically, we would probably need viaducts. Of course, good luck with that. Far too many livable streets advocates are almost religious about everything being on the same level. Most of those who aren’t are afraid to ask for the money needed for a big project like this. Nevertheless, if/when NYC ever gets enough decent infrastructure to deal with the volume of potential cyclists I think behavior overall would improve markedly. Just physically separating bikes and pedestrians for most of a cyclist’s trip sharply reduces the chances for negative interactions.

    We also need to realize manners and consideration in general go out the window under very crowded conditions. In a nutshell, I think this is most of the reason NYC seems to have a greater share of assholes than other places. Density is wonderful up to a point but I think much of the city is too dense for its own good. Either that, or we need to take serious steps to get rid of the least space efficient user of our streets, namely private automobiles, to reduce the crowding. Manhattan without private autos might actually become fairly civil.

  21.  

    Joe R.

    The food delivery workers need to organize. Go on strike for a week or two or three to protest the mass ticketing of delivery cyclists. When the 1%ers can’t get their moos shu pork delivered yesterday they might actually start to realize their own hypocrisy. They want their food fresh and fast, but at community board meetings they demonize the very delivery people who have to do what it takes to make it so.

    By its nature, in order to function a city like New York is going to have people operating on the margins. We either get used to low-level urban annoyances like bikes going through red lights, against traffic, and on sidewalks, or we accept that a lot of things will start taking much longer than we’re used to.

    The very people who are the most vocal complainers are the ones who created the problem in the first place by being too lazy to pick up their own food. Maybe when they have to do exactly that for a few weeks because the delivery cyclists are on strike they’ll realize how wrong they were. A $190 red light ticket can be two weeks or more wages for a delivery cyclist. If we want to keep ticketing these hard workers, perhaps we should instead force the restaurant and the person getting the delivery to split the cost of the tickets.

  22.  

    dh_andrew

    He’s doing a great job making himself out to be powerless and ineffectual in responding to this crisis. He could have taken this opportunity to put forward his own bold proposal and come to the rescue of the hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers who are going to be affected by this, but instead he’s pointing fingers at the MTA and asking inane questions about whether this shutdown is truly necessary. This crisis presents a tremendous opportunity to implement bold transportation policy innovations. A missed opportunity, it seems- and no, the ferry network is not a serious solution.

  23.  

    Joe R.

    Strictly speaking yield doesn’t mean stop. It means to give the right-of-way. You can do that in a number of ways, such as changing speeds, going around the person crossing, or even creeping along slowly until they’re out of your path. Given the narrow width of both bicycles and pedestrians, it’s rare that you need to completely stop in order to yield.

    If a driver or a bicyclist cannot avoid hitting a pedestrian who suddenly appears in his/her path, that means that the driver or bicyclist was going too fast, or not paying attention, or both. This is a truth that needs ultimately to be enshrined in law.

    On a regular urban surface street this is mostly true. Reasonable exceptions can be made if the person suddenly darts out from an invisible location when you’re too close to stop, provided you’re doing the speed limit or less.

    On highways no such rule exists. A pedestrian on a highway is trespassing. Same thing with one on railroad tracks or subway tracks. And I’d also say this applies on some of the few places in NYC which are analogous to bike highways, like the Hudson River Greenway, especially once you get north of midtown. As a society, we have certain areas where pedestrians are expressly forbidden in the interests of transportation efficient. If not for that, then every mode would be limited to 20-25 mph or less all the time.

  24.  

    AMH

    Just saw this column that sums up the problem (present in many towns and cities) quite well.

    http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/07/where-the-sidewalk-funding-ends/493250/

  25.  

    Joe R.

    I’ll even go one step further and say that given the relative lack of decent places to ride in this city, places like the Hudson River Greenway should have a defacto “yield to bicycles” rule instead of the other way around. Yield to pedestrians just doesn’t make sense for the reasons you say. And to me it’s adding insult to injury to require it on one of the few places in the city where cyclists aren’t subjected to hordes of motor vehicles, stop signs, or traffic signals every block.

  26.  

    JudenChino

    It pains me to say this, but Bloomberg would not only push this hard, he’d make it happen. And once implemented, it’d be a success (who the fuck purposefully take 14th street in a private car x-town?!?!). It’s slow as fuck. It’s a major bus x-town route as well.

    Without a doubt, that neo-liberal Richie Rich putz. Yes, Mayor “Stop-And-Frisk” would’ve been much better on this issue.

    What the fuck is this coward afraid of? Seriously. What a fucking coward. Does he remember who elected him? Property developers? I hate de Blasio. I’m just so embarrassed. Why does he act this way? Do one of these developers have his balls in a Jar? Like, you’re embroiled in scandals, pay for play and all that. But at least, at the end of the day, create some sort of lasting legacy. Times Square is 1000x better than it was before. Rents and Tourist figures attest to this. But what’s your legacy de Blasio — you let it go to shit but it’s not your fault, it’s Cuomos? Eric Adams for Mayor. And Police Commissioner.

  27.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    Ҥ4-04 Pedestrians
    (b) Right of way in crosswalks
    (1) Operators to yield to pedestrians in crosswalk
    (2) Pedestrians shall not cross in front of oncoming vehicles
    (3) Vehicles stopped for pedestrians”

    Again, in crosswalk. Not “about to cross” or “near” crosswalk. Common sense. Vast majority on bikes are not going fast enough to cause anything more than a few bruises. In fact, I imagine a person on a bike falling off of his bike after a slow-moving collision or near miss is in greater danger than the pedestrian who was hit or nearly hit.

  28.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    Once again, this is entirely a NYC/USA issue that doesn’t happen in cities where bikes are mainstream and part of the banal, daily life. Have you been to Amsterdam or Copenhagen? There bicycles and pedestrians know their place, and one person walking along a path used by more people on bikes than people on foot doesn’t get to make 10 people on bikes going each way come to a complete stop. Watch pedestrians cross bike paths there. There are no lights (except at intersections with cars) and no signs telling bicyclists to slow down for them. People are logical. The pedestrian waits. He or she doesn’t make large groups of people on bikes slow down for one person crossing. Let’s not forget bicycles don’t have brake lights or a universal way to quickly indicate they’re slowing down. The people behind me can’t even necessarily see the crosswalk or people waiting at it. There are dozens of people biking by in each direction at rush hour. On paths with no infrastructure regulating behavior, logic rules out. And I hold it is clearly more logical for the pedestrian(s) to wait in these situations. Until they install timed lights for pedestrians and bikes (which is not going to happen because there are not enough pedestirans), logic wins out and I will adhere to the meaning of the word “within” (unless you can show another section of the code that refutes that).

    I walk across the Greenway all the time, too. I have no problem waiting 3 seconds for a cyclist who is moving at a faster speed than I am, but not a dangerous speed and not even necessarily faster than people running or jogging, because I know that it’s easier for me to wait than for that person to downshift, stop, put a foot down, and then start again. It’s common sense. Side note, comparing bikes and pedestrians with cars and pedestrians in crosswalks is hyperbolic.

    And yes, there are plenty of times a person can walk in front of a bike, with a bike travelling at less than 10 MPH, and it’s impossible to avoid that person. I had a person walk into the side of my bike once. The side. Pray tell, how should I have avoided that? By stopping before this person even stepped foot in the crosswalk? Frankly, that’s absurd.

    Lastly, I’ll be the first to say I can’t stand the spandex warriors hitting 30 MPH on the Greenway, but the vast majority of people on bikes are doing less than 12, and I know that because I have a speedometer and I pass them doing 12.

  29.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    The letter of the law, as per the signs I read every day, is bicyclists must “yield to pedestrians within crosswalk”. We both know what within means. Can you support your response with the part of the code that says “bicyclists must yield to pedestrians who have not yet begun to cross”? If so, how close do the pedestrians have to be? How do we know whether or not they have begun to cross or when they are going to begin to cross? Can they be running across? This leaves a lot of room for interpretation, which does not make for good code.

  30.  

    AnoNYC

    Food delivery workers are a scapegoat for a violent traffic culture.

  31.  

    JK

    Does the TA report mention TrafficStat, the NYPD’s traffic safety version of CompStat? In the late ’90’s, TrafficStat was a big win for TA because it held precinct commanders accountable for traffic deaths and injuries, and summonsing, using real time data and computer maps. I went to three sessions and was impressed with the sensible, fact based approach the cops were using. What happened? Did NYPD stop doing TrafficStat? Has TA stopped going to these meetings to see directly how the cops are managing traffic enforcement? I’m perplexed that there is nothing about this. Seems like a big step backwards. TrafficStat is the place where PD senior management could call precincts on the carpet for doing stupid, untargeted enforcement.

    PS Add Riverside Drive in Manhattan 125th to 165th streets to your growing list of places where cops give out tons of nonsensical bike tickets while speeders rampage.

  32.  

    Ferdinand Cesarano

    It doesn’t mean that one person or a group of people can just start crossing and expect a group of people on bikes to stop.

    Actually, it means exactly that.

    Furthermore, it means that bicyclists must yield to pedestrians who have not yet begun to cross. The pedestrians don’t have to place themselves in the path of bicyclists in order to gain the right of way; they need only to stand on the sidewalk and thereby indicate their desire to cross. We bicyclists have to stop for them; and when we don’t, we are being massive assholes.

    In your later comment you mention that many pedestrians walk on the bicycle-only section of the Greenway. This complaint if valid. I would love to see some attention paid to this problem, as well as to the problem of pedestrians on the bike paths of the Williamsburg and Manhattan Bridges, and pedestrians walking in the bike lanes of Eighth Avenue and of Clinton Street.

    But the complaint about “pedestrians crossing without paying any attention” is without merit. Every bicyclist — like every driver — has to be ready to stop at any moment.

    I as a bicyclist would greatly prefer if pedestrians behaved predictably and sensibly. But many of them, being self-absorbed idiots, do not. Still, this does not absolve me as a bicyclist from the responsibility of not hitting them. Pedestrians are the most vulnerable road users; and everyone else must legitimately accept restrictions and annoyances (such as the requirement that we come to a stop at a crosswalk and then start again from zero) for the sake of pedestrian safety.

    An important point is that whenever any vehicle (be it a bicycle or a car) hits a pedestrian, it is the always 100% the fault of the operator of the vehicle, never of the pedestrian, even when that pedestrian is crossing against the light, or crossing in the middle of the block, or walking into the street without looking, etc. If a driver or a bicyclist cannot avoid hitting a pedestrian who suddenly appears in his/her path, that means that the driver or bicyclist was going too fast, or not paying attention, or both. This is a truth that needs ultimately to be enshrined in law.

  33.  

    James Lynch

    Most cops on patrol in NYC aren’t trained to write speeding tickets. They have to be sent to special training done by their Highway Patrol unit before they can use a radar gun

  34.  

    James Lynch

    I can tell you for a fact that at least in Brooklyn North traffic court window tint tickets are not fix it tickets.

  35.  

    James Lynch

    Considering the unmarked car it’s probably the local precinct’s traffic enforcement unit

  36.  

    danbrotherston

    Describing delivery cyclists as “terrorizing”, “careless”, and “sociopathic” is ironic given that car drivers often act in this way, and cause actual death and destruction, whereas cyclists are generally only “annoying” when they do so.

  37.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    Furthermore, if you’re going to use anecdata, then I’ll use mine too. I see many more pedestrians crossing without paying any attention and nearly causing wrecks, or simply standing in the middle of the Greenway, or runners quickly changing direction without any indication of such, or pedestrians walking on the bicycle only section near Chelsea Piers, than cyclists blowing by pedestrians in the middle of the crosswalk or putting pedestrians in danger. Not to mention the dangerous crossings involving shared phases with right turning cars and bikes/peds, for example the one marked by a ghost bike at Chambers and the Greenway.

  38.  

    Nathan C Rhodes

    You’re missing a key aspect: the law is for cyclists to yield to pedestrians “within crosswalk” (read the signs on the Greenway). This means that if someone is already crossing on foot and is in the middle, cyclists must yield. It doesn’t mean that one person or a group of people can just start crossing and expect a group of people on bikes to stop. It is much easier and much more logical for a person to slow their gait by a step or half-step to wait for a cyclist or group of cyclists to cross than for the latter to come to a complete stop, then accelerate from zero again.

  39.  

    JamesR

    New York City society is essentially feudal when it comes to social class, and delivery cyclists are members a sort of permanent, revolving underclass of city residents – many of whom end up hot bunking in illegally subdivided apartments deep within the outer boroughs in order to survive. Of course the pigs at the Post are going to portray them in a dehumanized manner – they don’t see them as people, just a faceless brown mass.

  40.  

    Jym Dyer

    ? Over and over again, conflating enforcement with Vision Zero. Way to make the words unpopular. Sweden’s VZ, the one that was the original success, wasn’t about enforcement at all.

  41.  

    Guest

    Do you mean the ones they ticket, or all those who are extended “professional courtesy”???

  42.  

    djx

    It’s a combination of:
    + auto-centric attitude (from working in cars, living in suburbs, plus American culture) with contempt for cyclists and even pedestrians
    + laziness – going after what’s easiest to ticket
    + bad direction from the top
    + bad incentives from the top

  43.  

    Ferdinand Cesarano

    If there were the political will, we could have on Manhattan avenues two-way bike lanes that are similar to the one found on Washington, D.C.’s 15th Street NW.

    But in order to get something like this, we’d need a lot of friends in the City Council. And to win friends in the City Council, we’d need to make the act of supporting bicyclists’ interests a less controversial and less politically risky thing for a Councilmember to do. And that we could do only by behaving better and becoming less hated — which is where the whole thing breaks down, because that seems very unlikely, on account of the attitudes and behaviours cited by Walks Bikes Drives.

    But, whereas he or she concludes that “Humans will be human, more importantly, Americans will be Americans”, I would take it down one level further and say “New Yorkers will be New Yorkers”. Bicyclists in Washington don’t behave like New York bicyclists. Neither do bicyclists in Philadelphia. In several trips down to each of those two nearby large cities over the past couple of years I can count on one hand the instances of wrong-way cycling that I saw. And I didn’t see a single instance of wrong-way riding within a one-way bike lane.

    So the problem is not human nature, nor even American disdain for regulations. It is something in our local culture. The barrier to the full mainstreaming of bicycling here in New York, and to the improvement and expansion of our bike-lane network, is probably always going to be the behaviour of too many New Yorkers who choose to ride, behaviour that makes bicyclists’ interests a topic which few politicians will wish to be associated with.

  44.  

    Kevin Love

    From the Gothamist article:

    “Data-driven enforcement is a part Vision Zero, but the NYPD is not doing data-driven policing,” said Transportation Alternatives Director Paul Steely White. “Instead they are policing by some historic bias that I don’t understand.”

    Kevin’s comment:
    I understand this bias and bigotry quite well. I’ve got a feeling that the overwhelming majority of the victims of this bias also fully and 100% understand it.

  45.  

    lifehighlights

    I don’t understand page 17 of the pdf. How does the two way bike lane on the eastbound side connect to the rest of the bike lane on the west? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/queens-blvd-74th-eliot-ave-may2016.pdf

  46.  

    Simon Phearson

    Two-way bike lanes on Manhattan avenues, as the avenues themselves are currently designed, probably wouldn’t be that safe, no. But there’s no reason to take those avenues’ design for granted. The story might be very different if we had passenger car restrictions or – gasp! – actually took one of our avenues away from drivers entirely.

    The point of observing how one-way bike lanes on avenues fail to serve cyclist needs isn’t as much to argue in favor for two-way bike lanes but to explain why we’ll pretty much always see salmoning on the avenues.

  47.  

    Simon Phearson

    How many drivers on a highway would yield for pedestrians looking to cross the highway at a painted but otherwise uncontrolled crosswalk? There are probably better ways to design the Greenway/pedestrian conflicts you’ve described, that would encourage cyclists to stop when needed. And there’s probably an element of learned behavior at work, too – drivers typically don’t stop for pedestrians at uncontrolled crosswalks, while pedestrians typically wait for a break in traffic.

    But in any event, the case of the Greenway doesn’t really prove your point. The fact that cyclists still don’t observe all the traffic laws, all the time, while using the Greenway, doesn’t mean that having the Greenway hasn’t reduced the occurrence of bad cyclist behavior on other streets nearby generally. To really make the point you’re trying to make, we’d have to look to those streets – for instances of red light-running, salmoning, etc. I think we’d find that some cyclists in those areas do still violate the laws that apply to them, but the vast majority of cyclists who could be using those streets (and potentially violating the law) are instead using the Greenway. So overall red light-running would be down, salmoning down, but failure to yield to pedestrians along a narrow, specific corridor is up.

  48.  

    Simon Phearson

    I didn’t say that ALL cyclists would follow ALL the rules with perfect infrastructure. But anyway, I would note that one-way bike lanes on the avenues do not serve the needs of cyclists, so that’s why you see the kind of salmoning behavior that you do. Infrastructure for cyclists should more closely match what we build for pedestrians, in order for it to “work” for them; one-way bike lanes make about as much sense to the cyclist trying to get around as a one-way sidewalk would.

    I haven’t ridden the Columbus/Amsterdam lanes, but if they’re anything like the other pairs of uptown/downtown PBLs we have, I’m not surprised that people are still sidewalk riding, either, given that the PBLs we tend to get in this city are punctuated by mixing zones and don’t feel that safe, generally speaking.

  49.  

    qrt145

    I’m very familiar with the bike lanes on Columbus and Amsterdam and I think they are pretty good. While you do get the occasional garbage truck etc. on the bike lane, pedestrians don’t use it as a sidewalk because they don’t need to; there aren’t the crowding issues you see in midtown.

    I can’t see what the benefit of salmoning would be unless both your origin and destination are on the avenue you are salmoning on and are very close. Why ride agains the green wave and get a red light every three blocks when you can ride with it and get one every ten blocks? (Depending on speed, of course.) I can understand the motivation for delivery workers, but for casual users, I say don’t be lazy and go around the block or walk.

    I’m not sure that having two-way bike lanes on Manhattan avenues would be very safe, but let’s leave that for some other time.

  50.  

    qrt145

    What evidence do you have that school cops in NYC are heavily armed? I haven’t seen them armed, and department policy is not to arm them. Are you claiming that they carry their own personal, concealed weapons?