Comments on: From “Hey, You #*%!!” To “Dear Driver” http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: sikiş http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-262851 sikiş Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:39:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-262851 Merrill Cassell's death in Westchester, NY was a recent occurrence. Cars look at bikes as just an object to speed past. I like the idea above of the idea to report license plates of reckless drivers; is this something the police would actually investigate? Merrill Cassell’s death in Westchester, NY was a recent occurrence. Cars look at bikes as just an object to speed past. I like the idea above of the idea to report license plates of reckless drivers; is this something the police would actually investigate?

]]> By: Herbert http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-214081 Herbert Sat, 06 Mar 2010 22:53:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-214081 Dear Cyclist: Drop dead. Dear Cyclist: Drop dead.

]]> By: James http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-214071 James Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:34:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-214071 Westcherite, like Michael Steiner, I commute and ride within Westchester as well. The more of us that are out there, the more drivers will expect to see us and the safer we all become as a result. That's been the case in NYC during the bike renaissance over the last few years and while Westchester is quite a bit behind the curve as compared to the city, the rule still applies. Westcherite, like Michael Steiner, I commute and ride within Westchester as well. The more of us that are out there, the more drivers will expect to see us and the safer we all become as a result. That’s been the case in NYC during the bike renaissance over the last few years and while Westchester is quite a bit behind the curve as compared to the city, the rule still applies.

]]> By: Michael Steiner http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-214061 Michael Steiner Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:32:08 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-214061 Westchesterite, in the last year i am pretty sure people also died in cars, yet nobody tells you not to drive because it is too dangerous? Yes, there are some risks riding a bike but it works out pretty well if you follow some basic rules. Don't get discouraged by the nay-sayers. And i say that as somebody who commutes since a few years on a daily basis (winter and summer) by bike (and train) in Westchester, so i know one thing or two about riding a bike there ... ;-) Westchesterite, in the last year i am pretty sure people also died in cars, yet nobody tells you not to drive because it is too dangerous? Yes, there are some risks riding a bike but it works out pretty well if you follow some basic rules. Don’t get discouraged by the nay-sayers. And i say that as somebody who commutes since a few years on a daily basis (winter and summer) by bike (and train) in Westchester, so i know one thing or two about riding a bike there … ;-)

]]> By: Westchesterite http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-214051 Westchesterite Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:04:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-214051 This proposal is very nice, but when I read the part about the husband who was killed on his bike, I get freaked out. I've been trying to decide whether to commute to a new job on my bike. Everyone I speak to about it says that I will get killed, and the more I read Streetsblog, the more scared that I become. Merrill Cassell's death in Westchester, NY was a recent occurrence. Cars look at bikes as just an object to speed past. I like the idea above of the idea to report license plates of reckless drivers; is this something the police would actually investigate? Just mulling online today. Sorry if reads poorly. This proposal is very nice, but when I read the part about the husband who was killed on his bike, I get freaked out. I’ve been trying to decide whether to commute to a new job on my bike. Everyone I speak to about it says that I will get killed, and the more I read Streetsblog, the more scared that I become.

Merrill Cassell’s death in Westchester, NY was a recent occurrence. Cars look at bikes as just an object to speed past. I like the idea above of the idea to report license plates of reckless drivers; is this something the police would actually investigate?

Just mulling online today. Sorry if reads poorly.

]]> By: Doug Irvine http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212791 Doug Irvine Sat, 06 Mar 2010 03:06:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212791 Of course, positive reinforcement is best. Wave and smile, thank you for not running me over back there. Normal bad behavior is best ignored. Egregious acts get not the finger but a raised arm palm facing up, sort of a "come on! I'm just trying to ride here, ok?" I drop my arm quickly to indicate I'm over it now and I'm not racing to the next light to curse them out. Avoiding the close calls is an art form in itself and deserving of it's own post. My best advice is to not shrink off to the edge of the road. You have a right to your space and riding nearer the center of a two lane road forces cars to use the passing lane and not squeeze you into the curb. Every encounter with a car is a teaching opportunity. Take advantage of them to show drivers we're human and have rights. Of course, positive reinforcement is best. Wave and smile, thank you for not running me over back there. Normal bad behavior is best ignored. Egregious acts get not the finger but a raised arm palm facing up, sort of a “come on! I’m just trying to ride here, ok?”

I drop my arm quickly to indicate I’m over it now and I’m not racing to the next light to curse them out.

Avoiding the close calls is an art form in itself and deserving of it’s own post. My best advice is to not shrink off to the edge of the road. You have a right to your space and riding nearer the center of a two lane road forces cars to use the passing lane and not squeeze you into the curb.

Every encounter with a car is a teaching opportunity. Take advantage of them to show drivers we’re human and have rights.

]]> By: nanterking http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212761 nanterking Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:43:57 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212761 I find that there are generally two categories of drivers here. There are those who think they own the road and that pedestrians and cyclists shouldn't be inconveniencing them, thus justifying their harassing, threatening, and dangerous actions. Then there are the oblivious ones, which I find to generally be in the majority. If you get their attention for something they did to jeopardize a vulnerable road user, they will often apologize. The letter would work for the latter, but unnecessary. For the former, it'll fall on deaf ears, and could even potentially put you in more jeopardy. The second category of drivers has taught me to minimize my kneejerk response to thoughtless maneuvers, because there was a time when I assumed malice on everyone's part, and responded consistently with the middle finger salute. I find that there are generally two categories of drivers here. There are those who think they own the road and that pedestrians and cyclists shouldn’t be inconveniencing them, thus justifying their harassing, threatening, and dangerous actions. Then there are the oblivious ones, which I find to generally be in the majority. If you get their attention for something they did to jeopardize a vulnerable road user, they will often apologize. The letter would work for the latter, but unnecessary. For the former, it’ll fall on deaf ears, and could even potentially put you in more jeopardy.

The second category of drivers has taught me to minimize my kneejerk response to thoughtless maneuvers, because there was a time when I assumed malice on everyone’s part, and responded consistently with the middle finger salute.

]]> By: Gussy http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212721 Gussy Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:32:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212721 Did you read my mind? I had one of the first serious run-ins today. We only have 1 bridge in town, its over 50yrs old. I take the lane when riding across as i have had many people overtake me on it, including semis and large trucks. The bridge is 30m (if that) long. Apparently someone didn't like getting held up for the 30 secs or less to cross the bridge until i got to the 2 lane road. He honked, served into my lane (his lane?) and then proceeded to go really slow off the red light. I'm good at going slow, so i'm not sure what his point was. Apparently he doesn't like cyclists. I was thinking of doing something similar to that letter, except getting pics and putting them online, its a small community so people would be named and shamed. Did you read my mind? I had one of the first serious run-ins today. We only have 1 bridge in town, its over 50yrs old. I take the lane when riding across as i have had many people overtake me on it, including semis and large trucks. The bridge is 30m (if that) long. Apparently someone didn’t like getting held up for the 30 secs or less to cross the bridge until i got to the 2 lane road. He honked, served into my lane (his lane?) and then proceeded to go really slow off the red light. I’m good at going slow, so i’m not sure what his point was. Apparently he doesn’t like cyclists. I was thinking of doing something similar to that letter, except getting pics and putting them online, its a small community so people would be named and shamed.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212701 Jeff Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:38:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212701 Kristen, you can definitely do that. People can be rude on bikes as well as cars. They can be rude while rollerblading, using pogo sticks, and I'm sure there have been cases of people being rude while sledding in the park on a snowy day. In fact, her website specifically mentions "Biking Rules" as a pedestrian-cyclist outreach program. Kristen, you can definitely do that. People can be rude on bikes as well as cars. They can be rude while rollerblading, using pogo sticks, and I’m sure there have been cases of people being rude while sledding in the park on a snowy day. In fact, her website specifically mentions “Biking Rules” as a pedestrian-cyclist outreach program.

]]> By: BB http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212691 BB Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:35:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212691 Honking the horn should be battery. Honking the horn should be battery.

]]> By: Jeffrey Hymen http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212681 Jeffrey Hymen Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:32:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212681 Thank you Kristen; saved me the trouble. I just deleted my example from yesterday--seemed unnecessary. Thank you Kristen; saved me the trouble. I just deleted my example from yesterday–seemed unnecessary.

]]> By: Kristen http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212591 Kristen Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:33:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212591 Can I get ones to give to cyclists? "Dear Cyclist, I hope you will take a moment to understand I was crossing the street, at the appropriate time, at the crosswalk, holding the hand of a two-year-old, while you, coming the wrong way down a one-way street, ran a red light and yelled at me to 'get the f--k out of [your] way.' I hope this note fosters better cyclist-pedestrian communications. Best Wishes, Me." Can I get ones to give to cyclists? “Dear Cyclist, I hope you will take a moment to understand I was crossing the street, at the appropriate time, at the crosswalk, holding the hand of a two-year-old, while you, coming the wrong way down a one-way street, ran a red light and yelled at me to ‘get the f–k out of [your] way.’ I hope this note fosters better cyclist-pedestrian communications. Best Wishes, Me.”

]]> By: Marcus Schodorf http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212511 Marcus Schodorf Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:46:54 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212511 I used a similar tactic for a while when I was commuting by bicycle in Dubai. I was pretty much the only one riding to work as far as I could tell, and many motorists in Dubai (who make New York drivers look like angels) didn't think I belonged on the road. After several months of frustration and yelling at cars I finally started carrying around a copy of the vehicular code and handing it calmly to drivers. Most people were rather dumbfounded or apologetic - though I still had arguments with several people. I eventually dropped the tactic, because it was too draining to constantly be confronting people. I was arriving home each day in a foul mood. I finally realized that there was no way I could single handedly educate the entire motoring public, and the only way I could be happy when I arrived home, was to not get angry in the first place. This tactic seemed to work for me - I was much happier upon arriving home, though I still kept the road rules in my bag in case there were any seriously egregious cases. For a slightly less succinct version: http://dubaisansauto.blogspot.com/2009/05/five-stages-of-grief-commuting-in-dubai.html I used a similar tactic for a while when I was commuting by bicycle in Dubai. I was pretty much the only one riding to work as far as I could tell, and many motorists in Dubai (who make New York drivers look like angels) didn’t think I belonged on the road.

After several months of frustration and yelling at cars I finally started carrying around a copy of the vehicular code and handing it calmly to drivers. Most people were rather dumbfounded or apologetic – though I still had arguments with several people.

I eventually dropped the tactic, because it was too draining to constantly be confronting people. I was arriving home each day in a foul mood. I finally realized that there was no way I could single handedly educate the entire motoring public, and the only way I could be happy when I arrived home, was to not get angry in the first place.

This tactic seemed to work for me – I was much happier upon arriving home, though I still kept the road rules in my bag in case there were any seriously egregious cases.

For a slightly less succinct version:

http://dubaisansauto.blogspot.com/2009/05/five-stages-of-grief-commuting-in-dubai.html

]]> By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212501 BicyclesOnly Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:30:11 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212501 This seems like a great idea. I agree that public remonstration does change people's behavior. Just think how much passenger etiquette has changed on NYC's subways and buses starting in the 1980s, when getting attacked began to lose its power as a disincentive to asking fellow passengers to take their bags off a seat, turn the radio off, etc. Folks should be aware, however, that there is a law against putting pieces of paper on people's cars in New York City. The goal is to reduce pollution, but unfortunately the rule also serves to pad the insulation drivers have against dealing with the safety of others on the road. This seems like a great idea. I agree that public remonstration does change people’s behavior. Just think how much passenger etiquette has changed on NYC’s subways and buses starting in the 1980s, when getting attacked began to lose its power as a disincentive to asking fellow passengers to take their bags off a seat, turn the radio off, etc.

Folks should be aware, however, that there is a law against putting pieces of paper on people’s cars in New York City. The goal is to reduce pollution, but unfortunately the rule also serves to pad the insulation drivers have against dealing with the safety of others on the road.

]]> By: Andy http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212491 Andy Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:29:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212491 I never use the middle finger. If they are honking or otherwise being obnoxious, I'm not going to get into the rage game. I just smile and wave or give a thumbs up. I never use the middle finger. If they are honking or otherwise being obnoxious, I’m not going to get into the rage game. I just smile and wave or give a thumbs up.

]]> By: glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212481 glenn Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:26:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212481 Is there a way to make complaints against drivers if you can't catch up to them and deliver a letter? For instance could a service be set up where I fill out a form online addressed to the driver of a car that I only got licence plate # for? If people are willing they could declare under oath that their statement is true or risk perjury. Then when a driver gets a moving violation the judge could look up complaints against that driver/vehicle. Or it could be something even insurance companies could look at? Is there a way to make complaints against drivers if you can’t catch up to them and deliver a letter?

For instance could a service be set up where I fill out a form online addressed to the driver of a car that I only got licence plate # for? If people are willing they could declare under oath that their statement is true or risk perjury. Then when a driver gets a moving violation the judge could look up complaints against that driver/vehicle. Or it could be something even insurance companies could look at?

]]> By: Mark Walker http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212461 Mark Walker Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:20:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212461 ...abuse. …abuse.

]]> By: Mark Walker http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212451 Mark Walker Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:19:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212451 As a militant pedestrian, I used to flip off every driver who irritated me. One day I was crossing a corner with a stop sign and wasn't sure if the driver was going to stop or not. My itchy middle finger was about to go into action when I realized the driver was smiling and waving at me. He was my doctor. I sheathed my weapon just in time. This forced me to re-examine my behavior. I decided to become more civil and never to use the middle finger again. If you see a bunch of peds crossing against a red light and annoying motorists, and there's <i>one</i> guy holding back and respecting the law, that guy will be me. If a driver endangers me, I yell, but don't subject them to torrents of As a militant pedestrian, I used to flip off every driver who irritated me. One day I was crossing a corner with a stop sign and wasn’t sure if the driver was going to stop or not. My itchy middle finger was about to go into action when I realized the driver was smiling and waving at me.

He was my doctor. I sheathed my weapon just in time.

This forced me to re-examine my behavior. I decided to become more civil and never to use the middle finger again. If you see a bunch of peds crossing against a red light and annoying motorists, and there’s one guy holding back and respecting the law, that guy will be me.

If a driver endangers me, I yell, but don’t subject them to torrents of

]]> By: Jeff http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212431 Jeff Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:58:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212431 Seems like a good idea, but unfortunately we are dealing with the segment of the population that makes a loud honking noise that can be heard by everyone either on the streets or in buildings for several blocks when they are mildly inconvenienced. In other words, I don't believe they speak English. And since people of different cultures (And they are of a different culture, considering that, in addition to an entirely different language, we live in New York City, and they live in an upholstered cocoon) tend to be more receptive when they are communicated with in their own language, I am recommending a modified version of the "Dear Driver" letter: Derp Derp DEERRRRP, Honk! DEEERRRRRRRP!!!! Honk! Honk! Honk! VROOOOOOOM!!!!!! DEEEEEERRRRRRPPPPPPP!!!!! Vroom Vroom, DEEEERRRRPPPPP Seems like a good idea, but unfortunately we are dealing with the segment of the population that makes a loud honking noise that can be heard by everyone either on the streets or in buildings for several blocks when they are mildly inconvenienced. In other words, I don’t believe they speak English. And since people of different cultures (And they are of a different culture, considering that, in addition to an entirely different language, we live in New York City, and they live in an upholstered cocoon) tend to be more receptive when they are communicated with in their own language, I am recommending a modified version of the “Dear Driver” letter:

Derp Derp DEERRRRP,

Honk! DEEERRRRRRRP!!!! Honk! Honk! Honk! VROOOOOOOM!!!!!! DEEEEEERRRRRRPPPPPPP!!!!!

Vroom Vroom,

DEEEERRRRPPPPP

]]> By: Andy http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/05/from-%e2%80%9chey-you-%e2%80%9d-to-%e2%80%9cdear-driver%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-212421 Andy Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:54:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=162441#comment-212421 It's a nice concept, but even here in a small city, talking to drivers reveals that they just don't care. It's usually about once a week when a driver pulls some obnoxious move endangering me to some degree. Occasionally, I see them park nearby or when it's warmer out (with windows down) I roll up to them at the next stop and say a few things. I try to remain as calm as possible, and explain that their dangerous maneuver got them to the next stop no faster (since I'm talking to them). They generally seem completely uninterested and might apologize but sound completely unapologetic while doing so. It’s a nice concept, but even here in a small city, talking to drivers reveals that they just don’t care. It’s usually about once a week when a driver pulls some obnoxious move endangering me to some degree. Occasionally, I see them park nearby or when it’s warmer out (with windows down) I roll up to them at the next stop and say a few things. I try to remain as calm as possible, and explain that their dangerous maneuver got them to the next stop no faster (since I’m talking to them). They generally seem completely uninterested and might apologize but sound completely unapologetic while doing so.

]]>