Comments on: Great Public Spaces for Midtown

By: jooltman

jooltman — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:07:39 +0000

It is hard to measure the impact on local businesses since the closing of Broadway to vehicular traffic coincided with the huge economic downturn. However, from a purely anecdotal standpoint, myself and many people I know now actually spend time in Times Square hanging out, relaxing, and buying the occasional item when before it was the last place on earth we would choose to linger.

Also, isn’t there someway to quantify in $ (the bottom line) how much better the environment in the area is due to decreased traffic? Better health of residents, fewer street maintenance dollars required, less damage to buildings from pollution, etc., etc.

By: Red

Red — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:50:28 +0000

There are definitely rigorous standards for measuring pedestrian congestion. Like many standards, they have their problems but they exist and can be used.

See for example http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/transportation/td_ped_level_serv.shtml

http://www.walksf.org/pedestrianLOS.html

By: John

John — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:58:07 +0000

Less important than the speeds, I’m wondering how the volumes have changed (cars, bikes, and peds). I imagine that any extra traffic capacity created by the Times Square changes were quickly absorbed by latent demand. That means speeds might be the same, but there could be more cars moving through the area. I expect there are definitely more peds and bikes moving through the area. Any chance counts have been done?

Another thing to consider is the economic impact to the businesses. How has that changed? I would guess for the better, but who knows?

By: Giffen

Giffen — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:13:09 +0000

Omri,

Not really. Why not have “professional walkers,” inspectors who choose pairs of points on a map and see how long it takes them to walk between them at a regular pace.

By: BicyclesOnly

BicyclesOnly — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:18:19 +0000

Not to mention bike traffic. Moves much more quickly and safely down Broadway from Columbus Circle to 47th Street. When the errant pedestrian traffic is not so heavy in the cycle track, you can catch a “green wave” all the way down at about 14 MPH with just one stop.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:14:17 +0000

Now maybe this same attitude could be applied to improving the SBS design on the East Side which would be Safer (WIN!), Move more People (WIN!) and maybe have an impact on private (selfish, polluting, dangerous) automobile traffic flows (TIE!)

By: Car Free Nation

Car Free Nation — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:11:54 +0000

I think Mark has a really good point. With the city’s emphasis on measurable goals, we should track average pedestrian speeds as well as cycling speeds in certain corridors, where changes are expected. That way, there’d be other measure of success rather than simply vehicle speed vs. casualties.

By: Omri

Omri — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:50:30 +0000

It’s a valid and important concern, Mark, but impossible to measure objectively. We all remember what Times Square was like before, and we all know it is faster to walk through now, but how much the crowding slowed you down was a matter of how much you were willing to weave and hustle (and step into the road and risk your life).

By: Mark Walker

Mark Walker — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:47:49 +0000

I don’t understand why pedestrian speeds and travel times aren’t part of the traffic calculations. Foot travel is traffic too. If the car-free spaces have peds standing in front of red lights less of the time, surely that can be measured. Since peds passing through the area greatly outnumber motorists passing through the area, both before and after the car-free space was established, the time savings for peds must be significant. Too bad it’s not part of the current discussion.