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	<title>Comments on: Doomsday Redux? MTA and Transit Riders Squeezed on All Sides</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Emily Litella</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-170041</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Litella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-170041</guid>
		<description>Throw the bums out, we need some new (bum) blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throw the bums out, we need some new (bum) blood.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-170021</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-170021</guid>
		<description>BTW, when I said the so-called &quot;doomsday&quot; plan discussed earlier wasn&#039;t a real doomsday, I meant it.  Even whatever the MTA does in June won&#039;t be the real doomsday.   ETA some time between November 2010 (after the state election) and November 2011, unless the U.S. is hit with a dollar collapse first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, when I said the so-called &#8220;doomsday&#8221; plan discussed earlier wasn&#8217;t a real doomsday, I meant it.  Even whatever the MTA does in June won&#8217;t be the real doomsday.   ETA some time between November 2010 (after the state election) and November 2011, unless the U.S. is hit with a dollar collapse first.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169991</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169991</guid>
		<description>(Cheer up, Larry. At least we&#039;ll all be able to drive to a shiny new Brooklyn basketball arena subsidized by the MTA (read: us). There&#039;ll be plenty of surface parking.)

What cheers me up is riding a bicycle.  I&#039;ll ride it to the arena too, if it is ever built.

Now if only I could find a similar substitute for public education, the police, parks, libraries, Social Security, Medicare, etc. I&#039;d be fine.  But I&#039;m not sure about anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Cheer up, Larry. At least we&#8217;ll all be able to drive to a shiny new Brooklyn basketball arena subsidized by the MTA (read: us). There&#8217;ll be plenty of surface parking.)</p>
<p>What cheers me up is riding a bicycle.  I&#8217;ll ride it to the arena too, if it is ever built.</p>
<p>Now if only I could find a similar substitute for public education, the police, parks, libraries, Social Security, Medicare, etc. I&#8217;d be fine.  But I&#8217;m not sure about anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: MTA Punching Bag</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169981</link>
		<dc:creator>MTA Punching Bag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169981</guid>
		<description>Transit Know Nothing State Senator Craig Johnson was just named Democrats for Education Reform&#039;s &quot;reformer of the month&quot;. The group&#039;s board is a who&#039;s who of big city mayors and urbanites. It&#039;s a reminder of the total disconnect between &quot;progressive&quot; politics and support for public transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transit Know Nothing State Senator Craig Johnson was just named Democrats for Education Reform&#8217;s &#8220;reformer of the month&#8221;. The group&#8217;s board is a who&#8217;s who of big city mayors and urbanites. It&#8217;s a reminder of the total disconnect between &#8220;progressive&#8221; politics and support for public transit.</p>
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		<title>By: Urbanis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169961</link>
		<dc:creator>Urbanis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 00:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169961</guid>
		<description>The cold weather and various travels have made me get lazy with bicycle commuting and rely on the subway more to get around. This news has sobered me up. I&#039;ll be getting a new commuter bike in a few days.

Frankly I don&#039;t understand why service cuts are more palatable than fare hikes.  I&#039;d rather see the fare go up and maintain the same level of service (or, better yet, improve it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cold weather and various travels have made me get lazy with bicycle commuting and rely on the subway more to get around. This news has sobered me up. I&#8217;ll be getting a new commuter bike in a few days.</p>
<p>Frankly I don&#8217;t understand why service cuts are more palatable than fare hikes.  I&#8217;d rather see the fare go up and maintain the same level of service (or, better yet, improve it).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric McClure</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169901</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric McClure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169901</guid>
		<description>Cheer up, Larry.  At least we&#039;ll all be able to drive to a shiny new Brooklyn basketball arena subsidized by the MTA (read: us).  There&#039;ll be plenty of surface parking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheer up, Larry.  At least we&#8217;ll all be able to drive to a shiny new Brooklyn basketball arena subsidized by the MTA (read: us).  There&#8217;ll be plenty of surface parking.</p>
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		<title>By: Galls</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169881</link>
		<dc:creator>Galls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169881</guid>
		<description>In 1940, on a city controlled fair set in 1913 of $0.05 ($0.45 cents when adjusted for inflation), the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit Company still made a profit before finally being forced to sell to the city. They took no subsidies and where a taxed entity. I repeat they made a profit at a modern day fare of $0.45 while we are paying 5 times as much.

Now for the life of me I cannot figure out why we don&#039;t go back to the form of privatization we used when the subway was at its finest? It is clear that the MTA as a supposedly politically independent entity is not capable of controlling its labor cost or any retaining any efficiencies. Also it is evidenced by our own history that privatizing the operations of the MTA would be the best option.

Ongoing operations of every form of transit should not be subsidized, capital costs sure, but operations should be covered by fare. I would gladly apply that philosophy to road users as well. By getting rid of the gas tax and making all limited access highways toll roads, with a toll based on (distance traveled) x (vehicle class) x (special infrastructure used).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1940, on a city controlled fair set in 1913 of $0.05 ($0.45 cents when adjusted for inflation), the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit Company still made a profit before finally being forced to sell to the city. They took no subsidies and where a taxed entity. I repeat they made a profit at a modern day fare of $0.45 while we are paying 5 times as much.</p>
<p>Now for the life of me I cannot figure out why we don&#8217;t go back to the form of privatization we used when the subway was at its finest? It is clear that the MTA as a supposedly politically independent entity is not capable of controlling its labor cost or any retaining any efficiencies. Also it is evidenced by our own history that privatizing the operations of the MTA would be the best option.</p>
<p>Ongoing operations of every form of transit should not be subsidized, capital costs sure, but operations should be covered by fare. I would gladly apply that philosophy to road users as well. By getting rid of the gas tax and making all limited access highways toll roads, with a toll based on (distance traveled) x (vehicle class) x (special infrastructure used).</p>
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		<title>By: Jason A</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169871</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169871</guid>
		<description>&quot;They&#039;ll keep grabbing until there is nothing left.&quot;

This is why so many of the road pricing schemes make me uneasy - all the plans involve bonding the money to simply borrrow more.  

Lets dig the hole deeper!

Congestion pricing or bridge tolls (at the rates discussed...) alone can not balance the MTA&#039;s abysmal balance sheet.  The legacy costs are too insurmountable, and the public (along with a complicit media...) is too stupid to understand any funding issues beyond &quot;TEH MTA SUX!!!&quot;

The system is being run into the ground.  It&#039;s over.  It&#039;ll be death by a thousand (service) cuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They&#8217;ll keep grabbing until there is nothing left.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is why so many of the road pricing schemes make me uneasy &#8211; all the plans involve bonding the money to simply borrrow more.  </p>
<p>Lets dig the hole deeper!</p>
<p>Congestion pricing or bridge tolls (at the rates discussed&#8230;) alone can not balance the MTA&#8217;s abysmal balance sheet.  The legacy costs are too insurmountable, and the public (along with a complicit media&#8230;) is too stupid to understand any funding issues beyond &#8220;TEH MTA SUX!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>The system is being run into the ground.  It&#8217;s over.  It&#8217;ll be death by a thousand (service) cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: jsd</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169841</link>
		<dc:creator>jsd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169841</guid>
		<description>&quot;Are service cuts any more politically palatable than putting a fair price on free bridges?&quot;

For upstaters? Sure. We want it all, but don&#039;t want to pay for it. This is very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are service cuts any more politically palatable than putting a fair price on free bridges?&#8221;</p>
<p>For upstaters? Sure. We want it all, but don&#8217;t want to pay for it. This is very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/12/08/doomsday-redux-mta-and-transit-riders-squeezed-on-all-sides/comment-page-1/#comment-169831</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=107851#comment-169831</guid>
		<description>They won and it&#039;s done.  You wonder why I&#039;m in such a bad mood -- this has been coming for 15 years, as I&#039;ve become at first miffed then outraged then frantic then resigned.  Consequences can be shifted or deferred but not avoided at this point.

Among the items that won&#039;t be considered -- taxing pension benefits, which is what I proposed in combination of congestion pricing.  Some are discussing it in Michigan, one of the few states where (like New York) there are similar exemptions.

http://www.freep.com/article/20091206/NEWS06/912060446/1318/Should-Michigan-tax-pensions

But even with 16.0% unemployment, the average age heading for 65 as younger residents flee, no one opening new businesses, soaring tax rates as those who actually pay depart, collapsing services, and the gutting of aid to the needy even as their numbers soar, this is considered unlikely there.

Which is why I&#039;ve come to believe an institutional collapse followed (perhaps) by a gradual rehabilitation after many difficult years is more likely than reform.  They&#039;ll keep grabbing until there is nothing left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They won and it&#8217;s done.  You wonder why I&#8217;m in such a bad mood &#8212; this has been coming for 15 years, as I&#8217;ve become at first miffed then outraged then frantic then resigned.  Consequences can be shifted or deferred but not avoided at this point.</p>
<p>Among the items that won&#8217;t be considered &#8212; taxing pension benefits, which is what I proposed in combination of congestion pricing.  Some are discussing it in Michigan, one of the few states where (like New York) there are similar exemptions.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freep.com/article/20091206/NEWS06/912060446/1318/Should-Michigan-tax-pensions" rel="nofollow">http://www.freep.com/article/20091206/NEWS06/912060446/1318/Should-Michigan-tax-pensions</a></p>
<p>But even with 16.0% unemployment, the average age heading for 65 as younger residents flee, no one opening new businesses, soaring tax rates as those who actually pay depart, collapsing services, and the gutting of aid to the needy even as their numbers soar, this is considered unlikely there.</p>
<p>Which is why I&#8217;ve come to believe an institutional collapse followed (perhaps) by a gradual rehabilitation after many difficult years is more likely than reform.  They&#8217;ll keep grabbing until there is nothing left.</p>
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