Comments on: In Progress: A More Walkable, Bikeable, Trottable Park Circle

By: Peter Smith

Peter Smith — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:38:34 +0000

i like the changes!

man, every day i’m getting closer to plotting my return to NYC — this time with one purpose in mind — to ride the city!

oh, and that one grate looks…not so nice.

By: Phil

Phil — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:05:47 +0000

Yes it’s all those: walking and bike friendly but it’s also better driving. That sounds odd, doesn’t it? I’m pleased all around since I do all three. . .

By: Sam

Sam — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:00:28 +0000

As someone you rides this circle a few time a week I have to say I am less than impressed with the improvements. Riding the outer ring bike bath is not fun and feels very unsafe because not only am I closer to the exit/entrances to the expressway, but I am hidden by a large amount of parked cars. I will save final judgment for the completed circle but personally I prefer the highly visible, short route through the circle with cars than the long, hidden route around the circle near the exits/entrances.

By: BicyclesOnly

BicyclesOnly — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:42:18 +0000

Andy,

I may be wrong on this, but I think many so-called traffic “circles” in NYC are partly or fully signalized like this one. Columbus “Circle” comes to mind–every entry and egress point from the circle-form roadway has a signal, as far as I can remember. I think NYC drivers are too aggressive, uncooperative and unskilled to use a true Euro-style non-signalized rotary without lots of crashes.

By: Larry Littlefield

Larry Littlefield — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:43:24 +0000

Looks like they took my advice and shank the circle from the outside in, rather than from the inside out. Hopefully my child and her friends will be less likely to be run over crossing that circle.

By: Andy B from Jersey

Andy B from Jersey — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:30:58 +0000

Mike, your right I haven’t been to it since it has been redone and with your explanation and reviewing the PP I now understand.

It is very unusual to have to go through a traffic light to leave a circle or roundabout. In fact I have NEVER seen that done anywhere (domestically or abroad) but doing so is an utterly brilliant solution and just about eliminates any conflicts bicyclist could have with cars.

I humbly rescind all my concerns about conflicts at intersections!

By: Mike Epstein

Mike Epstein — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:04:11 +0000

Andy, it doesn’t sound like you’ve ever been to this circle. The intersections are fully signalized in both directions (traffic entering and leaving the circle), so there are no turning conflicts whatsoever, with pedestrians or bikes. That is, at every intersection, cars and peds/bikes are moving perpendicular to each other, and one or the other has the signal, never both.

By: Gross

Gross — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:19:05 +0000

Lets not throw the Baby out with the bathwater.

By: Andy B from Jersey

Andy B from Jersey — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:05:07 +0000

Mike & Stacy, yes, I’m glad to hear that they are signalized but are they given their own signal phase like on 9th ave in Manhattan? Bicycle traffic can arrive to an intersection very quickly from far away, unlike pedestrians. Once a crosswalk is clear of peds, it is usually clear. If a pedestrian unexpectedly enters the crosswalk when the driver is already committed to making the turn, a pedestrian can stop rather easily. If a bicyclist enters the intersection at high speed (15mph or higher) from a direction a driver might not expect, once the driver is committed the results are usually not so benign.

Like I said (admittedly) without having seen the redesigned circle I still have my concerns about this one aspect of the project.

And Stacy, if you and I are both right about salmoning being the reason behind DoT designing it this way (I know, calls for lots of speculation), it is sure a sad statement about how cyclists behave in NYC and what is expected of them.

God! I sound like John Forester more and more! Ugghh!

By: Gross

Gross — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:02:59 +0000

The redesign is great (I love it in fact) and MUCH safer to walk thru. Drivers will have to get used slowing down.

There is a well connected and very vocal minority that have somehow scheduled a DOT Walk Through. I hope the motivation of the group comes from a place that allows for equal and safe use of pubic space regardless of your mode of transport.

Here is the info on the Walk Through:

“Park Circle Walk-Through

Review the Results & Provide Feedback
The NYCDOT is still making adjustments to Park Circle and would love to hear what you think works and what still needs improvement. Come walk around the area with DOT staff and share your thoughts. All are welcome!

Tuesday, November 24, 2009
5:00PM – 6:30PM
Meet at the Park Circle entrance of Prospect Park
(between Prospect Park Southwest and Parkside Ave. )

Please give me a call if you have any questions.
Claudette Workman”

Please attend.

By: Mike Epstein

Mike Epstein — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:51:21 +0000

Andy, all the intersections of the 2-way path with car traffic are signalized.

By: Stacy

Stacy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:50:08 +0000

Andy B from Jersey: The lane does look a bit narrow for two-way but, truth is, most bike lanes wind up being two-way (unofficially) Maybe it’s safer to recognize the salmon and accommodate them with a wider than one-way lane. Cars are supposed to look for pedestrians crossing these intersections so they should be able to look for bicycle traffic too.

By: BicyclesOnly

BicyclesOnly — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:31:27 +0000

Trips out to Coney Island have always been one of our family’s favorites, but the connection to Ocean Parkway from Prospect Park was incredibly harrowing. One time my son got confused and rode part way up the ramp to the Prospect Expressway before I could stop him. I am really looking forward to trying this out on our next trip to Coney.

By: Andy B from Jersey

Andy B from Jersey — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:52:23 +0000

Wait. Am I catching this right? The bike path/lane around the circle is bi-directional? (I looked at the PP and it wasn’t clear) I don’t know how I feel about that.

There are quite a few high-volume intersections this path would cross. Will MV drivers expect bicycle traffic coming in the opposite direction? I’m sure DoT with address this with new traffic signals but why the need? Is DoT just designing it this way knowing that cyclist would simply salmon around the circle if they didn’t? The circle is NOT so big that it is unreasonable to expect bicyclists to ride 3/4 of the way around it.

Plus that path seems almost too narrow for two-way bike traffic even without the puddles and other debris as pictured above. If traffic was one-way there would be plenty of room to navigate around these hazards. As is, to avoid these hazards one would need to navigate into oncoming bicycle traffic.

I do hope there is a clearly reasonable reason for this designing the bicycle facility this way. Besides this one concern, it looks like an excellent project.

By: Stacy

Stacy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:59:52 +0000

Wonderful! So many new bike lanes are cropping up faster than I can ride them,

By: Geck

Geck — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:41:05 +0000

that should read counter-flow/clockwise

By: Geck

Geck — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:39:42 +0000

I particularly like the incorporation of bi-directional bike lanes around the circle. I assumed we would be expected to have to go 3/4 around the circle, crossing some major interchanges to get from Prospect Park to the Parade Grounds when my son pointed out last weekend we could legitimately go counter-clockwise in the bike lane crossing only one signaled intersection. Bravo to DOT.

By: Clarence Eckerson Jr.

Clarence Eckerson Jr. — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:17:33 +0000

Hoo-freaking-ray!