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	<title>Comments on: Bus Rapid Transit Designs for East Side Avenues Still in Flux</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-160851</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-160851</guid>
		<description>Not clear what would happen to the NY subway system if we got once in 1000-year rainfall but, advocacy should be very aggressive about achieving broad small vehicle transit capable of adapting to such dramatic change and providing near-netzero energy and environmental impact.

http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/22/global-warming-deluge-in-uk-britain-once-in-1000-years/
In other UK news: “Rain like this happens once every 1,000 years”
November 22, 2009 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34058376/ns/weather/

Forecasters said the rainfall was unprecedented. Britain’s Meteorological Office said a record 12.3 inches of rain fell in 24 hours in the area — the heaviest rainfall ever recorded in the U.K….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not clear what would happen to the NY subway system if we got once in 1000-year rainfall but, advocacy should be very aggressive about achieving broad small vehicle transit capable of adapting to such dramatic change and providing near-netzero energy and environmental impact.</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/22/global-warming-deluge-in-uk-britain-once-in-1000-years/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/22/global-warming-deluge-in-uk-britain-once-in-1000-years/</a><br />
In other UK news: “Rain like this happens once every 1,000 years”<br />
November 22, 2009 </p>
<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34058376/ns/weather/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34058376/ns/weather/</a></p>
<p>Forecasters said the rainfall was unprecedented. Britain’s Meteorological Office said a record 12.3 inches of rain fell in 24 hours in the area — the heaviest rainfall ever recorded in the U.K….</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159731</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159731</guid>
		<description>Basic transportation technology has been around for many years and is many times simpler than the technology of the computer revolution that individuals built on their kitchen tables in in their garages.  

Individuals have built small vehicle transit systems in their backyards and lawns; and where Volkswagen could justify spending one-half billion dollars to prototype the second Beetle and an additional $0.5 billion to build the production version, Geoff Barnette was able to build Shweeb (www.shweeb.com) at an extremely small fraction of these amounts. 

This is the spectre small vehicle transit poses to the established transportation industry, its local monopolies, high margins, considerable human dangers, environmental devastation, and major profiteers as participants in the grave threat to civilization as we know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basic transportation technology has been around for many years and is many times simpler than the technology of the computer revolution that individuals built on their kitchen tables in in their garages.  </p>
<p>Individuals have built small vehicle transit systems in their backyards and lawns; and where Volkswagen could justify spending one-half billion dollars to prototype the second Beetle and an additional $0.5 billion to build the production version, Geoff Barnette was able to build Shweeb (www.shweeb.com) at an extremely small fraction of these amounts. </p>
<p>This is the spectre small vehicle transit poses to the established transportation industry, its local monopolies, high margins, considerable human dangers, environmental devastation, and major profiteers as participants in the grave threat to civilization as we know it.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159721</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159721</guid>
		<description>Traveling on two rails, monorails, guideways etc. are very simple mechanical collision avoidance systems and it does not matter whether the vehicles are large or small except that large vehicles require much more infrastructure, have much larger stopping distances, are much more difficult to accommodate and are many times more expensive to build, adapt, and modify  than small vehicles on this systems.

This is what personal rapid transit is:  Small vehicles on mechanical collision avoidance systems.


It is an absolutely bizarre disconnect that some people do not understand this.

It is an absolutely bizarre disconnect that the transportation industry continues to promote such inconvenient and expensive systems when small vehicle transit is much more practical; except when you look at the huge industries involved in transportation as stake holders in continuing with the dominance of transportation systems based on freewheeling cars;  probably not unlike the huge industries still trying to prevent universal health care that would eliminate the middlemen,the huge profit margins, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traveling on two rails, monorails, guideways etc. are very simple mechanical collision avoidance systems and it does not matter whether the vehicles are large or small except that large vehicles require much more infrastructure, have much larger stopping distances, are much more difficult to accommodate and are many times more expensive to build, adapt, and modify  than small vehicles on this systems.</p>
<p>This is what personal rapid transit is:  Small vehicles on mechanical collision avoidance systems.</p>
<p>It is an absolutely bizarre disconnect that some people do not understand this.</p>
<p>It is an absolutely bizarre disconnect that the transportation industry continues to promote such inconvenient and expensive systems when small vehicle transit is much more practical; except when you look at the huge industries involved in transportation as stake holders in continuing with the dominance of transportation systems based on freewheeling cars;  probably not unlike the huge industries still trying to prevent universal health care that would eliminate the middlemen,the huge profit margins, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159501</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159501</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, and there&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.annarbor.com/business-review/googles-larry-page-takes-interest-in-ann-arbors-transportation-future/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; - is that Google employee delusional too? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, and there&#8217;s <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/business-review/googles-larry-page-takes-interest-in-ann-arbors-transportation-future/" rel="nofollow">this</a> &#8211; is that Google employee delusional too? <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159481</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159481</guid>
		<description>Ian, your denial doesn&#039;t change reality. Others who did follow the links can judge for themselves. Here&#039;s more:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/04/invasion_of_the_pod_car/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boston Globe article&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Oct12/0,4670,PodcarCity,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ithaca, NY, PRT activism&lt;/a&gt;


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1879168-36,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Time magazine article&lt;/a&gt; about the car-free PRT-based Masdar City project.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/unimodal.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NASA&lt;/a&gt; partners with PRT company.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8194698.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC article&lt;/a&gt; about Heathrow&#039;s pilot PRT project.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1604493/the_global_emergence_of_personal_rapid_transit_prt_systems_/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frost &amp; Sullivan&lt;/a&gt; analysis of the future potential of PRT.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/nyregion/21podcar.html?pagewanted=all&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NY Times&lt;/a&gt; article about Ithaca PRT conference.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/science/tq/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_RSGVJGN&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Economist&lt;/a&gt; article on ULTra PRT founder Martin Lowson.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/06/01/100050977/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CNN&lt;/a&gt; article on PRT.

LOTS of insanity out there. I&#039;d be especially interested in your thoughts on insanity at NASA. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, your denial doesn&#8217;t change reality. Others who did follow the links can judge for themselves. Here&#8217;s more:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/04/invasion_of_the_pod_car/" rel="nofollow">Boston Globe article</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Oct12/0,4670,PodcarCity,00.html" rel="nofollow">Ithaca, NY, PRT activism</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1879168-36,00.html" rel="nofollow">Time magazine article</a> about the car-free PRT-based Masdar City project.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/unimodal.html" rel="nofollow">NASA</a> partners with PRT company.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8194698.stm" rel="nofollow">BBC article</a> about Heathrow&#8217;s pilot PRT project.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1604493/the_global_emergence_of_personal_rapid_transit_prt_systems_/index.html" rel="nofollow">Frost &amp; Sullivan</a> analysis of the future potential of PRT.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/nyregion/21podcar.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">NY Times</a> article about Ithaca PRT conference.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/science/tq/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_RSGVJGN" rel="nofollow">Economist</a> article on ULTra PRT founder Martin Lowson.</p>
<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/06/01/100050977/" rel="nofollow">CNN</a> article on PRT.</p>
<p>LOTS of insanity out there. I&#8217;d be especially interested in your thoughts on insanity at NASA. <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159421</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159421</guid>
		<description>Mike, I clicked on one of your links and saw that you had vastly inflated and removed from context what the article actually had to say. At that point you lost all credibility in my mind and I stopped looking further.

Cheers,

--Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I clicked on one of your links and saw that you had vastly inflated and removed from context what the article actually had to say. At that point you lost all credibility in my mind and I stopped looking further.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>&#8211;Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159391</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159391</guid>
		<description>Ian, one of the co-founders has made statements in support of PRT. And what about the other huge groups I cited? WWF? Posco? The Swedish governemt? There are more too - BAA, Foster &amp; Partners, engineering conglomerates SKM, Arup, CH2M Hill... all have endorsed PRT as a transit option.

Look, I have no problem with people here not liking PRT, but when you start calling PRT enthusiasts &quot;insane&quot;, I feel compelled to point out the thousands of respectable people you are smearing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, one of the co-founders has made statements in support of PRT. And what about the other huge groups I cited? WWF? Posco? The Swedish governemt? There are more too &#8211; BAA, Foster &amp; Partners, engineering conglomerates SKM, Arup, CH2M Hill&#8230; all have endorsed PRT as a transit option.</p>
<p>Look, I have no problem with people here not liking PRT, but when you start calling PRT enthusiasts &#8220;insane&#8221;, I feel compelled to point out the thousands of respectable people you are smearing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159321</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159321</guid>
		<description>Mike,

Yes, the &quot;one Google employee with a background in transportation planning&quot; that you cited is delusional.

--Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Yes, the &#8220;one Google employee with a background in transportation planning&#8221; that you cited is delusional.</p>
<p>&#8211;Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159281</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159281</guid>
		<description>Actually, no, I should blame myself. In any case, this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/05/pod-people-wage-war-on-light-rail-other-reality-based-transpo-projects/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;227-part (and counting) thread&lt;/a&gt; is the definitive Streetsblog slugfest on the subject. For more information, Google &quot;prt mike c.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, no, I should blame myself. In any case, this <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/05/pod-people-wage-war-on-light-rail-other-reality-based-transpo-projects/" rel="nofollow">227-part (and counting) thread</a> is the definitive Streetsblog slugfest on the subject. For more information, Google &#8220;prt mike c.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159261</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159261</guid>
		<description>Another of my adversary&#039;s achievements -- the PRT lunatic fringe is back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another of my adversary&#8217;s achievements &#8212; the PRT lunatic fringe is back.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-159241</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-159241</guid>
		<description>Mark Walker: is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_13806264?source=rss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MNDOT&lt;/a&gt; also insane? How about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=1957&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google&lt;/a&gt;? Or Korea&#039;s largest steelmaker &lt;a href=&quot;http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2910573&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Posco&lt;/a&gt;? Or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alamedasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=3894&amp;Itemid=10&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Urbanism co-founder Peter Calthorpe&lt;/a&gt;? Or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climatesolver.org/show.php?id=1177294&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;World Wildlife fund&lt;/a&gt;? Or the &lt;a href=&quot;http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=sv&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http://www.sr.se/Stockholm/nyheter/artikel.asp%3Fartikel%3D3125465&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;government of Sweden&lt;/a&gt;?

That&#039;s a lot of &quot;insanity&quot;, don&#039;t you think?

Just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Walker: is <a href="http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_13806264?source=rss" rel="nofollow">MNDOT</a> also insane? How about <a href="http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=1957" rel="nofollow">Google</a>? Or Korea&#8217;s largest steelmaker <a href="http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2910573" rel="nofollow">Posco</a>? Or <a href="http://www.alamedasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=3894&amp;Itemid=10" rel="nofollow">New Urbanism co-founder Peter Calthorpe</a>? Or <a href="http://www.climatesolver.org/show.php?id=1177294" rel="nofollow">World Wildlife fund</a>? Or the <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=sv&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http://www.sr.se/Stockholm/nyheter/artikel.asp%3Fartikel%3D3125465" rel="nofollow">government of Sweden</a>?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a lot of &#8220;insanity&#8221;, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-2/#comment-158141</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-158141</guid>
		<description>if it&#039;s a high-speed street, then it requires physically-separated bike lanes -- simple. if there&#039;s any room left over, then you can put buses out there or cars or whatever else, but pedestrians and bikes should be taken care of first, especially on the major travel corridors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if it&#8217;s a high-speed street, then it requires physically-separated bike lanes &#8212; simple. if there&#8217;s any room left over, then you can put buses out there or cars or whatever else, but pedestrians and bikes should be taken care of first, especially on the major travel corridors.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-158061</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-158061</guid>
		<description>#49 Mark Walker, &quot;Your vision of bikes on every sidewalk is my definition of hell.&quot;

Many people create their own private hells which you seem to be quite good at and often quite hilarious.

Young children have to ride on the sidewalk especially, when the street is not safe as often do adults.  And, young children are probably the most dangerous on bikes except for those adults that cycle irresponsibly.

Whether someone is running too fast or cycling too fast on a crowded sidewalk the likelihood that someone else will get hurt is much higher but the forces from getting hit by someone on or off a bike are pretty much the same (bikes don&#039;t weigh that much) and it&#039;s just that cyclists can go up to 4 times faster.  

Riding near pedestrians whether on sidewalks or even the streets cyclists probably should not be going much faster than a walk and get off their bikes and walk them when it is really crowded; on a tricycle is probably ok since it is easy creep along.  And, it should be obvious that riding near children or the elderly cyclists should be especially cautious.

I do see cyclists doing a lot of things they should not be doing, but it is cars, trucks, and large vehicle transit called buses that you seem to love so much that kill and maim people or at best often really get in the way, make a lot of noise, kick out noxious fumes, etc., etc., etc.

My heaven is a utopia in part created by small vehicle transit; ultimately something you will be able to fit in your backpocket by midcentury assisted by the latest in molecular strength material science.  I don&#039;t think about hell much except that human-induced climate change is rapidly creating it here on earth if we do not do something quick.  

On the transportation front small vehicle transit is the most expedient, cost effective, practical way providing considerable net benefit during the necessary transition to sustainable global mobility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#49 Mark Walker, &#8220;Your vision of bikes on every sidewalk is my definition of hell.&#8221;</p>
<p>Many people create their own private hells which you seem to be quite good at and often quite hilarious.</p>
<p>Young children have to ride on the sidewalk especially, when the street is not safe as often do adults.  And, young children are probably the most dangerous on bikes except for those adults that cycle irresponsibly.</p>
<p>Whether someone is running too fast or cycling too fast on a crowded sidewalk the likelihood that someone else will get hurt is much higher but the forces from getting hit by someone on or off a bike are pretty much the same (bikes don&#8217;t weigh that much) and it&#8217;s just that cyclists can go up to 4 times faster.  </p>
<p>Riding near pedestrians whether on sidewalks or even the streets cyclists probably should not be going much faster than a walk and get off their bikes and walk them when it is really crowded; on a tricycle is probably ok since it is easy creep along.  And, it should be obvious that riding near children or the elderly cyclists should be especially cautious.</p>
<p>I do see cyclists doing a lot of things they should not be doing, but it is cars, trucks, and large vehicle transit called buses that you seem to love so much that kill and maim people or at best often really get in the way, make a lot of noise, kick out noxious fumes, etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>My heaven is a utopia in part created by small vehicle transit; ultimately something you will be able to fit in your backpocket by midcentury assisted by the latest in molecular strength material science.  I don&#8217;t think about hell much except that human-induced climate change is rapidly creating it here on earth if we do not do something quick.  </p>
<p>On the transportation front small vehicle transit is the most expedient, cost effective, practical way providing considerable net benefit during the necessary transition to sustainable global mobility.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157981</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157981</guid>
		<description>Yikes -- in my first graf above I said BRT when I meant PRT. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes &#8212; in my first graf above I said BRT when I meant PRT. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157971</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157971</guid>
		<description>The Wikipedia article on BRT is an insane asylum run by the inmates. It demonstrates the limits of user-generated content.

I prefer Amtrak to DC. Streetcars are obviously for local travel.

I limit my bus exposure to local travel under an hour. The longest trip I take regularly is the M5 from its terminus at Houston up to the West 90s where I live. Quick jaunts on the crosstown bus to the East Side. Trips home from midtown. Not outer borough or inter-city journeys.

I live next to the Hudson River Promenade, and based on the interactions I&#039;ve observed among bikers and peds, I regard it as an uneasy arrangement at best. I say this after literally decades of experience.

Some bikers on the Promenade are considerate. They are the majority. Unfortunately others pedal as fast as their legs allow and this is hazardous especially in the presence of baby carriages, toddlers, elderly, etc. I once heard a biker blasting past the 92nd St. community garden yell &quot;get out of my way old lady!&quot; A whole crowd of people gasped. Other times I&#039;ve been thank by bikers for looking around for them before making a move.

Sorry, sidewalks are ped space, and I&#039;m far from the only person here who feels that way. Your vision of bikes on every sidewalk is my definition of hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wikipedia article on BRT is an insane asylum run by the inmates. It demonstrates the limits of user-generated content.</p>
<p>I prefer Amtrak to DC. Streetcars are obviously for local travel.</p>
<p>I limit my bus exposure to local travel under an hour. The longest trip I take regularly is the M5 from its terminus at Houston up to the West 90s where I live. Quick jaunts on the crosstown bus to the East Side. Trips home from midtown. Not outer borough or inter-city journeys.</p>
<p>I live next to the Hudson River Promenade, and based on the interactions I&#8217;ve observed among bikers and peds, I regard it as an uneasy arrangement at best. I say this after literally decades of experience.</p>
<p>Some bikers on the Promenade are considerate. They are the majority. Unfortunately others pedal as fast as their legs allow and this is hazardous especially in the presence of baby carriages, toddlers, elderly, etc. I once heard a biker blasting past the 92nd St. community garden yell &#8220;get out of my way old lady!&#8221; A whole crowd of people gasped. Other times I&#8217;ve been thank by bikers for looking around for them before making a move.</p>
<p>Sorry, sidewalks are ped space, and I&#8217;m far from the only person here who feels that way. Your vision of bikes on every sidewalk is my definition of hell.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157951</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157951</guid>
		<description>The wikipedia article includes PRTs under mass transit and says a lot of the right things.  PRT stands for personal rapid transit which includes small single-person vehicle transit and includes Shweeb (www.shweeb.com) soon to be on the Discovery Channel, is really quite nice and getting a lot of positive response; and makes a lot more sense than large vehicle transit including streetcars.  

Did you really say and or imply that you&#039;d prefer to take a streetcar to Washington DC than a bus which you seem to detest my little large-vehicle transit advocate friend?  (http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/17/high-hopes-and-higher-standards-for-bloomberg-3-0/#comment-157931)  

Cycling on walkways through crowded City Hall, Hudson River, and Riverside parks and across the Brooklyn Bridge where pedestrians continually walk in the bike lane is legal and quite safe as well as in Norway (it&#039;s been reported on Streetsblog); and, YES! safe on sidewalks (please don&#039;t be too scared!) and no more dangerous than skateboards, skooters, skates, baby carriages, shopping carts in supermarkets etc., when people ride responsibly and to conditions.  In fact, skaters fall a lot more than cyclists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wikipedia article includes PRTs under mass transit and says a lot of the right things.  PRT stands for personal rapid transit which includes small single-person vehicle transit and includes Shweeb (www.shweeb.com) soon to be on the Discovery Channel, is really quite nice and getting a lot of positive response; and makes a lot more sense than large vehicle transit including streetcars.  </p>
<p>Did you really say and or imply that you&#8217;d prefer to take a streetcar to Washington DC than a bus which you seem to detest my little large-vehicle transit advocate friend?  (<a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/17/high-hopes-and-higher-standards-for-bloomberg-3-0/#comment-157931" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/17/high-hopes-and-higher-standards-for-bloomberg-3-0/#comment-157931</a>)  </p>
<p>Cycling on walkways through crowded City Hall, Hudson River, and Riverside parks and across the Brooklyn Bridge where pedestrians continually walk in the bike lane is legal and quite safe as well as in Norway (it&#8217;s been reported on Streetsblog); and, YES! safe on sidewalks (please don&#8217;t be too scared!) and no more dangerous than skateboards, skooters, skates, baby carriages, shopping carts in supermarkets etc., when people ride responsibly and to conditions.  In fact, skaters fall a lot more than cyclists.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157611</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157611</guid>
		<description>Gecko, thanks for ending this dialogue on a note that definitely demonstrates your lack of sanity. I can now rest easy and devote my time to other things.

Incidentally, for anyone following this, in addition to being in favor of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/05/pod-people-wage-war-on-light-rail-other-reality-based-transpo-projects/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PRT&lt;/a&gt;, Gecko is also in favor of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/07/17/dear-streetsblog-readers-how-do-you-handle-a-sidewalk-riding-ticket/#comment-85551&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;riding bikes on sidewalks&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gecko, thanks for ending this dialogue on a note that definitely demonstrates your lack of sanity. I can now rest easy and devote my time to other things.</p>
<p>Incidentally, for anyone following this, in addition to being in favor of <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/05/pod-people-wage-war-on-light-rail-other-reality-based-transpo-projects/" rel="nofollow">PRT</a>, Gecko is also in favor of <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/07/17/dear-streetsblog-readers-how-do-you-handle-a-sidewalk-riding-ticket/#comment-85551" rel="nofollow">riding bikes on sidewalks</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157571</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157571</guid>
		<description>Listed in the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit article is:

Personal Rapid transit

Personal rapid transit is an automated cab service that runs on rails or a guideway. A fully implemented system might provide most of the convenience of individual automobiles with the efficiency of public transit. The crucial innovation is that the automated vehicles carry just a few passengers, and turn off the guideway to pick up passengers, permitting other PRT vehicles to continue at full speed. Conventional transit simulations show that PRT might attract many auto users in problematic medium density urban areas. A number of experimental systems are in progress.


And, linked to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit

Personal rapid transit (PRT), also called personal automated transport (PAT) or podcar, is a public transportation concept that offers on-demand, non-stop transportation, using small, automated vehicles on a network of specially-built guideways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listed in the same <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit</a> article is:</p>
<p>Personal Rapid transit</p>
<p>Personal rapid transit is an automated cab service that runs on rails or a guideway. A fully implemented system might provide most of the convenience of individual automobiles with the efficiency of public transit. The crucial innovation is that the automated vehicles carry just a few passengers, and turn off the guideway to pick up passengers, permitting other PRT vehicles to continue at full speed. Conventional transit simulations show that PRT might attract many auto users in problematic medium density urban areas. A number of experimental systems are in progress.</p>
<p>And, linked to:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit</a></p>
<p>Personal rapid transit (PRT), also called personal automated transport (PAT) or podcar, is a public transportation concept that offers on-demand, non-stop transportation, using small, automated vehicles on a network of specially-built guideways.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157551</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157551</guid>
		<description>Gecko, that is naive at best and disingenuous at worst. Employing the same logic, someone might say he fully supports all forms of biking and bike infrastructure except for 99 percent of the bikes and bike infrastructure currently in use.

And your attempt to paint biking as a &quot;public&quot; system is in a similar vein. The truth is much more ambiguous: The vast majority of bikes currently in use are private vehicles that use public infrastructure. In fact, they are also rubber-tired vehicles that use asphalt, and I&#039;m sure you can see where that train of thought is leading. Despite that, I support biking, because I find the presence of bikes in my life less destructive than the presence of cars, and I think I&#039;m being much more reasonable about it than you are.

All this really makes me wonder why you would choose to live in the city that has more rail and bus service than any other one in the country. Wouldn&#039;t you be more comfortable in Arlington, Texas? It must be awfully uncomfortable to live in a city that has been sculpted around its subway system. For my own part, I love this place, I love its terrain, I love its essence -- even if you don&#039;t -- and that love is a lifetime commitment. I feel so strongly about it that I have not driven a car in 30 years (or a bike in 35).

I am pleading with you: Please apply your talent and energy in a less destructive manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gecko, that is naive at best and disingenuous at worst. Employing the same logic, someone might say he fully supports all forms of biking and bike infrastructure except for 99 percent of the bikes and bike infrastructure currently in use.</p>
<p>And your attempt to paint biking as a &#8220;public&#8221; system is in a similar vein. The truth is much more ambiguous: The vast majority of bikes currently in use are private vehicles that use public infrastructure. In fact, they are also rubber-tired vehicles that use asphalt, and I&#8217;m sure you can see where that train of thought is leading. Despite that, I support biking, because I find the presence of bikes in my life less destructive than the presence of cars, and I think I&#8217;m being much more reasonable about it than you are.</p>
<p>All this really makes me wonder why you would choose to live in the city that has more rail and bus service than any other one in the country. Wouldn&#8217;t you be more comfortable in Arlington, Texas? It must be awfully uncomfortable to live in a city that has been sculpted around its subway system. For my own part, I love this place, I love its terrain, I love its essence &#8212; even if you don&#8217;t &#8212; and that love is a lifetime commitment. I feel so strongly about it that I have not driven a car in 30 years (or a bike in 35).</p>
<p>I am pleading with you: Please apply your talent and energy in a less destructive manner.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/11/13/bus-rapid-transit-designs-for-east-side-avenues-still-in-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-157481</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=91711#comment-157481</guid>
		<description>My support for mass transit is complete and it is the currently prevailing nature of mass transit that is being questioned:  the reliance on large expensive vehicles and necessary expensive inflexible infrastructures as opposed to agile small vehicle transit which seems to make the most sense.

An excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit:  &quot;Public transport (also public transportation, public transit, or mass transit) comprises passenger transportation services which are available for use by the general public, as opposed to modes for private use such as automobiles or vehicles for hire.&quot;

Public bicycle systems fully comply with this definition as will other small vehicle transit systems likely much more practical and easy-to-use with auxiliary powering, automation, modularity and distributed on-demand capabilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My support for mass transit is complete and it is the currently prevailing nature of mass transit that is being questioned:  the reliance on large expensive vehicles and necessary expensive inflexible infrastructures as opposed to agile small vehicle transit which seems to make the most sense.</p>
<p>An excerpt from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit</a>:  &#8220;Public transport (also public transportation, public transit, or mass transit) comprises passenger transportation services which are available for use by the general public, as opposed to modes for private use such as automobiles or vehicles for hire.&#8221;</p>
<p>Public bicycle systems fully comply with this definition as will other small vehicle transit systems likely much more practical and easy-to-use with auxiliary powering, automation, modularity and distributed on-demand capabilities.</p>
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