I stayed for the "executive" community board session, after almost everyone went home. The transportation panel agreed that the majority of the community was opposed to the plan, and voted "no" on the resolution.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. A few angry people at a meeting, whatever uniforms they may be wearing, don't tell you anything about what the majority thinks in a community of thousands.

That's not to say that the CB process is meaningless, but it is a matter of persuasion, not of veto power. I personally don't think that the arguments put forward by the opponents, while certainly sincere or heartfelt, are particularly compelling; how is the two-way as opposed to one-way vehicular traffic on Carmine is essential to its character? I can't see how the patterns of vehicular traffic on any street can be taken as "essential" to their character, except in a bad way (for example, Canal is ruined by vehicular traffic).

Maybe the DoT will view it differently. But if DoT decides to go forward with a one-way design, the community can have a definite influence on how DoT implements its plans, can successfully urge DoT to modify the details to lessen impacts and address community concerns. That is what happened on the East 91st Street bike lane; DoT modified the manner in which the boike lane was designated on the pedestrianized block to meet some of opponents concerns. But DoT did not accept the argument that increasing bike traffic on the block would ruin the experience of other users, because that was simply a frivolous argument. When opponents' "input" is limited to "not in my backyard," their opportunity to shape even the details is limited.

Another variation, from Christopher, is across W. 10th to Seventh Avenue South, then east on West Fourth Street. There's no bike lane but you can do some bike-friendly open-air banking at the cash machines in Sheridan Square.

http://tinyurl.com/yftwv9n

Morton also has a rather severe bump, just west of the bend, between Seventh Avenue South and Hudson Street that can be rather disconcerting at night.

Problem is, there are very few good, smooth routes, west of Seventh Avenue South/Varick Street that don't involve riding on the sidewalk or going the wrong way.

Morton Street is a great alternative. I believe it's completely paved, wide, residential, and a much less congested crossing at 7th Ave. There is metered parking between 7th Ave and Bleecker which should be considered for removal since there is ample metered parking on 7th Ave.

BicyclesOnly

Take a little time to investigate the process used to attain the DOT Study in Nov 2007. Check out csaranyc.org and it may help you understand why the Community reacted.
in

I use various routes from the Greenway to Thompson Street several times a week. Sometimes it's West 10th->Bleecker. Sometimes it's Clarkson->Greenwich->King->Sixth Avenue-> W. Houston.

The thing I really hate about the Clarkson->Carmine->Bleecker Street route is that the first block of Clarkson is still cobblestones, and the next two blocks are so badly paved that they're almost as difficult. Cars never yield to allow bikes to enter the lane on Bleecker, and they're always "stepping out over the line" as they make the turn into the section of Bleecker east of Sixth Avenue.

DOT really should just give us a big, beautiful, two-way, river-to-river, protected bike lane on Houston Street and put an end to all this nonsense.

Ned, you seem like a reasonable person and I think reasonable people can disagree on the right design for Carmine Street. As an occasional user of the street, I can live with the current configuation. What I don't think is reasonable is the notion that the design decision should be made based upon whoever can turn out the most people to the most recent CB meeting. City government could not function on that basis. Community input is definitely desirable and, I believe, mandatory, but it cannot amount to a veto power over how the streets are going to be organized. The community board is admittedly an imperfect conduit for community input, but it's all we've got (other than the very limited opportunity to mobilize elected officials on highly local issues). The one-way design for Carmine Street has apparently been a matter for open public debate for for 2 years. You can't show up at the end of the two year process with a crowd of people expecting to turn everything around, and then denounce the process because you're not successful.

You are well-known to be a sanctimonious, self-serving and needy little group - and you pass THROUGH my neighborhood you don't LIVE here.

KDog perfectly describes the New York City automobile owner.

I wonder how many of these West Village activist baby boomer types still consider themselves to be liberal, progressive or environmentalists? On issues related to their own urban environment and local politics, they are none of the above. They are as conservative and fundamentalist as Kansas Republicans. KDog and his fellow Sean Sweeneyites are now some of New York City's most perversely misguided advocates for the broken status quo.

I never faulted DOT, they are merely the creator of the study. Coincidentally - or not - the gentleman who is head of the local business association is also a CB2 member.

I don't expect every city agency to flyer every neighborhood about all issues. I do expect those driving an issue in the community whose support they depend on to do a reasonable job of informing that community. It is strikingly evident that this was not done.

-Ned

Welcome newcomers, and be assured this is not a "circus" but a NEIGHORHOOD. We are not "uncivil, hostile, moblike or hysterical" We are PROUD and PASSIONATE and that is what I heard at the the CB2 meeting. The pride and passion of people for their neighborhood.

Thank you all (and you know who you are) for keeping that pride and passion alive!!!

Perhaps a better approach to the "stopped traffic" and "parallel park" issues would be to reserve some parking spaces on each block (say, 20%) for active loading and unloading only. That would allow the health, safety and environmental improvements to go in without impacting precious drivers' time.

--Ian

It's hardly DOT's fault if people don't follow community board meetings. The community board process is certainly flawed, but it's the community board input process that we have: People who care about this sort of thing are supposed to follow the meetings. It's unreasonable to expect every city agency to flyer every neighborhood that would be affected by every proposed change. And even if you were to do such a thing, people would quickly ignore the flyers.

Cheers,

--Ian

"And yes, I am saying that the two-way direction of the street and its width creates a vista that is very pleasing. A bit of extra sky, a little more distance between the buildings on either side of the street has a psychological impact that a DOT survey of traffic patterns doesn't measure."

I'm right there with you on the point that the wide width between buildings makes for a pleasant environment. IMO, though, a narrower street (in the sense of less area dedicated to moving cars) with a bike lane would enhance this character rather than detract from it.

Carmine Street needs the two lanes no matter what. The two lanes are used for a variety of purposes - not all strictly legal but IT WORKS. The DOT did not explain how a 12 foot wide traveling lane was going to accommodate cars getting around stopped traffic – and it WILL be stopped – you know it and I know it. It will be a nonstop traffic jam. Or how anyone was going parallel park in a single lane road with a long string of cars behind you on a BUSY street.

The CB2 were quite naked in their condescension and contempt of the RESIDENTS of Carmine and adjacent streets and had simply misunderstood the wants of merchants in 2007. After what I assume was an expensive DOT study they were simply unwilling to admit it was a mistake. As to the "venom" and "hysteria" of the residents at the 11/10 meeting - it's called passion and I'll take them over smug bureaucrats any day - at least they stand the chance of being right that a bad idea does not.

Bike Peddlers? This is not Oslo or Amsterdam it is New York and we like it that way. You are well-known to be a sanctimonious, self-serving and needy little group - and you pass THROUGH my neighborhood you don't LIVE here. The people have spoken. Deal with it.

The bicycle lane markings on Clarkson signal a bicyclist to merge with traffic while crossing 7th Ave. to avoid being hit by turning vehicles (that fail to yield).