http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/

Thanks, Todd.

Mine is a real eBike, not one of those things with pedals for show. It’s 60lb, with a gross vehicle weight pushing 250-300lb, when fully loaded. It really likes to be pedaled, if you want good performance.

A vehicle with a top speed of 20mph doesn’t always mix so well on the avenues with traffic lights timed at 30mph. Nor does it work on the West Side Highway, with actual speeds up to 50mph+.

The best thing about eBikes is they’re so much easier to accelerate than regular bikes, it’s made me more patient about hitting the brakes for stop lights, pedestrians, etc.

Would you also disallow recumbent bicycles and tricycles which can be much faster than standard bikes and are normally much lower to the ground?

From # 6 Yangmusa:

“On my recumbent I can (relatively) easily break 30 mph. So there’s nothing new about the sort of speed achievable on an e-bike.”

I use the electric motor mostly for hills and starting from a stop. I rarely go over 15 mph, mostly because I am cautious by nature and feel uncomfortable riding faster than that. I don’t ride on sidewalks, I don’t run stoplights. I cede the right of way to pedestrians and to cars at four way stop signs. I would say I’m probably ten times more law-abiding than your average SF cyclist, but it’s true that the electric motor helps this because it’s not as painful for me to start from a dead stop as it is for regular bicyclists.

The electric motor means I can replace car trips with bike trips. I have an Xtracycle attached to my electric bike which means I can carry a week’s worth of groceries home. I can transport my 12 year old daughter back and forth to her dance class (though with her on the back I have to work very, very hard coming up the hill home.) I can go places without getting sweaty. (I rode my bike to the symphony last night in a skirt and heels. Boy, did I get looks.) Most of all, I don’t dread taking my bike because of the last half mile home.

There are downsides to an electric bike. It’s somewhat expensive, which makes me worry about it getting stolen or people messing with it more than I would with a regular bike. It’s heavy–probably 60 – 70 lbs–and while it’s possible to ride it without using the motor (I’ve done so) the extra weight does make me dependent on the electric boost. And with the hills I do, the range is limited to about 11 – 12 miles, although I could get a bigger battery for more capacity. (More $ and would add more weight.)

I can’t imagine anyone needing a motor over 650 Watts. Really. And there is a big difference between a scooter with pedals and a bicycle with an assist. Most people don’t know my bike is electric unless I tell them.

If I lived in a flatter place, I don’t think I would go electric. It wouldn’t be worth the expense or the worry about the bike getting stolen. On vacation I use a regular bike for weeks at a time at a location with medium-sized hills with no problem. But would I prefer a city full of electric bikes over a city full of pollution-spewing cars? You bet.

While the City Room pix above is somewhat of a sustainability disconnect my tool bag probably approaches the same weight of those bottles of Poland Spring water from Maine and e-power assist would be an advantage for timely travel in hilly areas, snow, heavy wind, for longer trips, and travel when heavily fatigued or with bio-mechanical issues.

As creatures of habit e-power assist extends the daily practicality of bicycle technology which is probably why a lot of delivery people are using it in the city.

EBikes are an important step in making bicycle technology serious transportation; in addition to networked bikes or bicycle systems, advanced bicycle and or small vehicle systems, and recumbent foldable tricycles to name a few.

Advanced systems will likely incorporate modular small vehicles that work on-and-off specially designed systems to provide for high-performance hands-free automated transportation with a minimal ecological footprint; crucial for high-density transportation and most importantly, seriously addressing the climate change crisis.

On the other hand, the New York Vehicle and Traffic Law specifically defines “vehicle” as a device moved by other than human power. So ebikes fall within a different regulatory category than ordinary bicycles under present law. In my view, the rationale for drawing the line at human- vs. non-human powered vehicles is that with the aid of non-human power, the ebike user is more likely to use higher speeds.

This will be not only because of human limitations, such as in the going uphill scenario, but also in other scenarios. For example, if I see a light about to turn red up ahead, I start breaking right away. I know I will conserve energy if I reach that intersection after the light turns red, and after the cross traffic, motor vehicle and pedestrian, has crossed. An ebike operator may instead have the incentive to increase speed to reach that same intersection, in hopes of making it through before the cross traffic enters the intersection. The ebike operator has less to lose in trying to slip through a light at the last minute. By picking up speed into a potential conflict situation, the ebike operator exacerbates tensions between bicyclists and pedestrians. Pedestrians will usually wait before entering an intersection if they see a cyclist accelerating toward them, even if the pedestrian has the right of way; and then the pedestrian crosses in indignation, and rightly so, since the cyclist has essentially stolen a few seconds of their time by grabbing a right of way they did not have a right to by law. Although I don’t know this from experience (I’ve never ridden an ebike), I suspect that a cyclist would in general tend to adjust the risk/benefit analysis, and engage in riskier cycling behavior, if the cyclist has an extra supply of energy and could restore forward momentum effortlessly if a sudden stop became necessary because the risky maneuver proved ill-advised. So the current distinction of human powered vs. non-human powered vehicles in the law makes some sense.

I have also seen ebike operators on the sidewalks operate without pedaling. Perhaps they think it is less alarming to the pedestrians, but I actually find it more alarming, because I am used to assessing what a cyclist intends to do by how they are pedaling. Even with mere peripheral vision, one can tell if a bicyclists is coasting or pedaling and make quick judgments about the possbility of a collision, but you can’t do this with an ebike operator. I find it alarming to confront an ebike operator and not know whether s/he is accelerating or decelerating, so this is another issue that would weigh against changing existing law so that ebikes were treated as fungible with human powered vehicles.

But in practice, I’ve never had a problem with e-bikes. I think they ride as responsibly as anyone else out there…

NYC streets are (obviously) dangerous and there are hectic instances where you need a certain fitness level to safely manage a precarious situation. If e-bikes help someone with fitness concerns get on a bicycle, I think they should be encouraged.

“do motorized bikes capable of traveling 20 mph have a place in the city’s transportation mix? If so, where do they belong?”

Of course they have a place in the mix. If two-wheeled vehicles capable of 20mph have no place, we wouldn’t allow normal bikes either. We certainly wouldn’t allow motorcycles and scooters.

Just like normal bicycles, E-bikes belong on the road or the bike path. If motorized bikes are causing conflicts with pedestrians or riding on sidewalks, that calls for more traffic enforcement, not an out-and-out ban.

Imaging crashing into one of those things at speed on the West Side Bike Path!

I think these “scooters” have a transportation roll but they are not the equal to a bicycle.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A WEIGHT LIMIT!!!

Let me repeat.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission (a Federal agency) has declared that bikes that meet the definition of “Low-Speed Electric Bicycles” are to be treated as regular bicycles and that no local authority can supersede this ruling and regulate them in any way different then bicycles already are.

However I agree that some Asian manufacturers are simply making minor modifications to flat floor, step through electric scooters, namely by meeting the power requirements and installing rudimentary pedals connected to the rear while via a belt drive. These things don’t look a think like a triple triangle, human powered bicycle but are now supposed to be considered equals.

I like the concept of Low-Speed Electric Bicycles when they are simply a bicycle with a helper motor. I went for a test ride on one this summer in a hilly German town and was amazing! I do think that there should be some expectation in the regulation from the CPSC that a Low-Speed Electric Bicycle are first a bicycle that can easily be ridden without any help from the motor.

Unfortunately there are some importers who are sidestepping the intent of the regulation and are using it to sell low powered scooters that then don’t require a license nor insurance and are nearly impossible to propel on human power alone.

Look at the selection of Low-Speed Electric Bicycles from this one seller:
http://www.veloteq.com/veloteqgallery/compare_scooters.htm

These things look nothing like bicycles!

my younger brother got around for years in the ‘burbs on a scooter, which is the same thing really. he didn’t have (or need) a license, just needed to pass the age limit and have a scooter with a maximum speed. this worked fine and was allowed on bike paths. same thing in the netherlands and many other places. making e-bikes more common will make cars less needed for teens everywhere, as they can have mobility without a license…this in turn makes it easier to raise driver’s license training standards for everyone, and to keep unlicensed people out of the driver’s seat.

e-bikes are of tremendous benefit to cities, and anyone who is against them is ignoring the large portion of our population that is less mobile (older folks, the handicapped, the tired).

hopefully an increased US market for e-bikes will lower the price of models that don’t rely on big nasty lead batteries. right now the price differential is huge, way past what it should be.

beelectric: pedal assist is a joke. the determining factor should be the bike’s maximum speed. pedal assist is not actually useful in any meaningful sense, and it can be disengaged in a lot of e-bikes anyway.

geck: i’m pretty sure the scooters causing problems in holland are the more high-powered ones a/o gas-powered ones. low-powered electric scooters and pedal-assist bikes don’t require a blue license plate or emit particles.