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	<title>Comments on: Wanted: Crowd-Sourced Transportation Analysis</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-137211</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-137211</guid>
		<description>Doug,

A serious concern. There is fortunately an easy solution: Speed cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>A serious concern. There is fortunately an easy solution: Speed cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Irvine</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-137161</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Irvine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-137161</guid>
		<description>I recall the taxi strike a while back.  The thing I noticed immediately was how fast the traffic was speeding down Ninth ave.  There were cars and trucks doing 50mph.

My fear is congestion pricing might just make the streets more dangerous.  I favor enlarging sidewalks (and bike lanes), removing street parking, and closing more streets to traffic to discourage people from driving in nyc.

Strangely, I make the best time walking on Wednesdays.  With all the Broadway matinee traffic, it&#039;s easy to cross against the lights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall the taxi strike a while back.  The thing I noticed immediately was how fast the traffic was speeding down Ninth ave.  There were cars and trucks doing 50mph.</p>
<p>My fear is congestion pricing might just make the streets more dangerous.  I favor enlarging sidewalks (and bike lanes), removing street parking, and closing more streets to traffic to discourage people from driving in nyc.</p>
<p>Strangely, I make the best time walking on Wednesdays.  With all the Broadway matinee traffic, it&#8217;s easy to cross against the lights.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Komanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136411</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Komanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136411</guid>
		<description>Hi John --

Your surmise is correct that taxi usage would be crosscut (moved in both directions at once) under congestion pricing, particularly if some toll revenues are used to reduce transit fares. Under the Kheel-Komanoff Plan, the taxi surcharge and fare cuts would cut taxi use, while faster travel and less use of private cars would raise it.

Using the parameters in the BTA, the predicted net impact is a 5% &lt;em&gt;increase&lt;/em&gt; in taxi ridership even as overall VMT within the CBD falls by 8%. This should be good news for cab drivers. Ditto, the prediction in the BTA of almost 3 more fares per shift, due to speedier trips. (See &quot;Motor Vehicles&quot; worksheet, Row 772, and &quot;Taxi&quot; worksheet, Row 150.)

As for &lt;em&gt;cruising&lt;/em&gt; -- I admit that I hadn&#039;t thought about how pricing might affect the share of taxi VMT accounted for by cruising -- I simply kept it at 39%. My price-elasticity of taxi use (from Schaller, BTW -- it&#039;s sourced near the top of the &quot;Taxi&quot; worksheet) is for taxi ridership, not taxi VMT. But the question of whether taxi VMT would vary differently from taxi ridership seems non-essential to me, especially if taxi ridership is projected to increase.

  -- Charlie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John &#8211;</p>
<p>Your surmise is correct that taxi usage would be crosscut (moved in both directions at once) under congestion pricing, particularly if some toll revenues are used to reduce transit fares. Under the Kheel-Komanoff Plan, the taxi surcharge and fare cuts would cut taxi use, while faster travel and less use of private cars would raise it.</p>
<p>Using the parameters in the BTA, the predicted net impact is a 5% <em>increase</em> in taxi ridership even as overall VMT within the CBD falls by 8%. This should be good news for cab drivers. Ditto, the prediction in the BTA of almost 3 more fares per shift, due to speedier trips. (See &#8220;Motor Vehicles&#8221; worksheet, Row 772, and &#8220;Taxi&#8221; worksheet, Row 150.)</p>
<p>As for <em>cruising</em> &#8212; I admit that I hadn&#8217;t thought about how pricing might affect the share of taxi VMT accounted for by cruising &#8212; I simply kept it at 39%. My price-elasticity of taxi use (from Schaller, BTW &#8212; it&#8217;s sourced near the top of the &#8220;Taxi&#8221; worksheet) is for taxi ridership, not taxi VMT. But the question of whether taxi VMT would vary differently from taxi ridership seems non-essential to me, especially if taxi ridership is projected to increase.</p>
<p>  &#8212; Charlie</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136351</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136351</guid>
		<description>Charlie. I don&#039;t really understand how the taxi fees reduce taxi VMT by much. They will reduce passenger demand for cabs, but cabbies and medallion owners still need to pay the bills. Therefore don&#039;t they have to cruise more to access the same size consumer/passenger market (demand) they had before? In other words, reducing demand for cabs isn&#039;t going to reduce the supply of cabs much because medallion owners still have to pay for those medallions and drivers still have to make a living. Or, is there research showing that cab VMT declines with fare hikes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie. I don&#8217;t really understand how the taxi fees reduce taxi VMT by much. They will reduce passenger demand for cabs, but cabbies and medallion owners still need to pay the bills. Therefore don&#8217;t they have to cruise more to access the same size consumer/passenger market (demand) they had before? In other words, reducing demand for cabs isn&#8217;t going to reduce the supply of cabs much because medallion owners still have to pay for those medallions and drivers still have to make a living. Or, is there research showing that cab VMT declines with fare hikes?</p>
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		<title>By: DJStroky</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136221</link>
		<dc:creator>DJStroky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136221</guid>
		<description>@Charles Komanoff:  Using a static point estimate of driving distance even after a significant toll is applied was my concern because driving distance is likely to change as people choose new destinations for activities.  As for the elasticities, I didn&#039;t read far enough to see the more recent studies being cited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Charles Komanoff:  Using a static point estimate of driving distance even after a significant toll is applied was my concern because driving distance is likely to change as people choose new destinations for activities.  As for the elasticities, I didn&#8217;t read far enough to see the more recent studies being cited.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Komanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136071</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Komanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136071</guid>
		<description>Great comments so far, thanks all.

Mike - Nat - J:Lai -- I&#039;ll check out the interface angle, thanks.

BicyclesOnly: Your hunch is right that geographic differentiation can&#039;t be built into this level model, unfortunately. As to community boards, engineers and planners like Sam Schwartz, Fred Kent, Jan Gehl et al. are far more knowledgeable and persuasive than I could be even if I had the kind of model you&#039;re fantasizing.

Cap&#039;n Transit: The BTA&#039;s &quot;Bus Boarding&quot; worksheet isn&#039;t quite complete, but take a look. (The version you recall in BTA 1.0 was simplistic and I&#039;m working on improving it.)

DJStroky: Congratulations on &quot;breaking the BTA.&quot; I&#039;m a bit chagrined, though also pleased that it took a $200 cordon price! I&#039;m sorry I don&#039;t have a cash prize for you, you deserve one. What broke it wasn&#039;t the price-elasticity but the &lt;em&gt;time-switching&lt;/em&gt; algorithm ... I probably need to attenuate that, since even with a $200 toll next to a $6 toll, some drivers will stick to the higher-price period. Thanks for smoking that out.

DJStroky (more): As for the estimated trip distance, are you questioning my chosen parameters, or my use of a point estimate rather than a distribution? I&#039;m not sure I would agree on either count, but I&#039;d like to know. As for the 1977 elasticities, did you get to read further down in the &quot;Elasticities&quot; worksheet where I back up the key variable (driver price-elasticity) with recent findings? 

DJStroky and all: Thanks much, keep it coming. -- CK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments so far, thanks all.</p>
<p>Mike &#8211; Nat &#8211; J:Lai &#8212; I&#8217;ll check out the interface angle, thanks.</p>
<p>BicyclesOnly: Your hunch is right that geographic differentiation can&#8217;t be built into this level model, unfortunately. As to community boards, engineers and planners like Sam Schwartz, Fred Kent, Jan Gehl et al. are far more knowledgeable and persuasive than I could be even if I had the kind of model you&#8217;re fantasizing.</p>
<p>Cap&#8217;n Transit: The BTA&#8217;s &#8220;Bus Boarding&#8221; worksheet isn&#8217;t quite complete, but take a look. (The version you recall in BTA 1.0 was simplistic and I&#8217;m working on improving it.)</p>
<p>DJStroky: Congratulations on &#8220;breaking the BTA.&#8221; I&#8217;m a bit chagrined, though also pleased that it took a $200 cordon price! I&#8217;m sorry I don&#8217;t have a cash prize for you, you deserve one. What broke it wasn&#8217;t the price-elasticity but the <em>time-switching</em> algorithm &#8230; I probably need to attenuate that, since even with a $200 toll next to a $6 toll, some drivers will stick to the higher-price period. Thanks for smoking that out.</p>
<p>DJStroky (more): As for the estimated trip distance, are you questioning my chosen parameters, or my use of a point estimate rather than a distribution? I&#8217;m not sure I would agree on either count, but I&#8217;d like to know. As for the 1977 elasticities, did you get to read further down in the &#8220;Elasticities&#8221; worksheet where I back up the key variable (driver price-elasticity) with recent findings? </p>
<p>DJStroky and all: Thanks much, keep it coming. &#8212; CK</p>
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		<title>By: DJStroky</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136061</link>
		<dc:creator>DJStroky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136061</guid>
		<description>The estimated trip distance is quite likely the most serious drawback to this whole model.  The lack of a GIS-based assignment engine makes these distance assumptions hard to calibrate or validate.   Furthermore, I don&#039;t see a section on traffic diversion to other areas.  For example, I set a ridiculous $200 auto toll (attempting successfully to break the model) during bins 4 and 5.  It appears that the calculations say that 63% of trips were &quot;eliminated&quot; and there ended up being negative trips.  The 1977 elasticity values are likely quite out of date by now in terms of auto travel.  I&#039;d expect these &quot;eliminated&quot; trips to be just diverted to areas outside the cordon, especially for the non-work and thru trips which have higher elasticities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The estimated trip distance is quite likely the most serious drawback to this whole model.  The lack of a GIS-based assignment engine makes these distance assumptions hard to calibrate or validate.   Furthermore, I don&#8217;t see a section on traffic diversion to other areas.  For example, I set a ridiculous $200 auto toll (attempting successfully to break the model) during bins 4 and 5.  It appears that the calculations say that 63% of trips were &#8220;eliminated&#8221; and there ended up being negative trips.  The 1977 elasticity values are likely quite out of date by now in terms of auto travel.  I&#8217;d expect these &#8220;eliminated&#8221; trips to be just diverted to areas outside the cordon, especially for the non-work and thru trips which have higher elasticities.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136051</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136051</guid>
		<description>Charles, I remember that a previous version of the spreadsheet allowed you to see the effects of making buses free, but not the effect of fare prepayment or proof-of-payment systems.  Has that been included now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, I remember that a previous version of the spreadsheet allowed you to see the effects of making buses free, but not the effect of fare prepayment or proof-of-payment systems.  Has that been included now?</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136041</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136041</guid>
		<description>If I could wish for anything:

I would include in the model actual or estimated traffic volume and speed data by roadway, and then create a graphic interface that allows the user to &quot;play God&quot; on a map of the grid by converting lanes of MV traffic to other uses.  The model would compute the changes in the resulting modal composition, volumes and speed of the traffic on all of roadways predicted to be affected by the changes the user makes, based on observations and assumptions regarding traffic patterns and behavior. I&#039;d bring the model to a Community Board meeting and put it on a screen so these people (whose are by no means experts on traffic) can see the effect of a proposal such as BRT, protected bike paths, closing Central park to cars, etc. 

I have a feeling the model I&#039;m describing is only slightly less ambitious than Hari Seldon&#039;s model of psychohistory (Asimov fans take note) and would take Charles a lifetime to construct.  but maybe it would be feasible for Charles to work with activists on the Upper East and West Sides who have convinced their respective community boards to at least consider proposals for protected bike lanes, to come up with an analysis of traffic effects to rebut the arguments of those who mindlessly argue that any reduction in traffic lanes will &quot;bring traffic to a standstill,&quot; when in fact non-MV traffic is facilitated rather than hindered, that effect is magnified by modal shift, and MV effects are materially offset by modal, route and time-of-commute shifts by drivers in response to the changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I could wish for anything:</p>
<p>I would include in the model actual or estimated traffic volume and speed data by roadway, and then create a graphic interface that allows the user to &#8220;play God&#8221; on a map of the grid by converting lanes of MV traffic to other uses.  The model would compute the changes in the resulting modal composition, volumes and speed of the traffic on all of roadways predicted to be affected by the changes the user makes, based on observations and assumptions regarding traffic patterns and behavior. I&#8217;d bring the model to a Community Board meeting and put it on a screen so these people (whose are by no means experts on traffic) can see the effect of a proposal such as BRT, protected bike paths, closing Central park to cars, etc. </p>
<p>I have a feeling the model I&#8217;m describing is only slightly less ambitious than Hari Seldon&#8217;s model of psychohistory (Asimov fans take note) and would take Charles a lifetime to construct.  but maybe it would be feasible for Charles to work with activists on the Upper East and West Sides who have convinced their respective community boards to at least consider proposals for protected bike lanes, to come up with an analysis of traffic effects to rebut the arguments of those who mindlessly argue that any reduction in traffic lanes will &#8220;bring traffic to a standstill,&#8221; when in fact non-MV traffic is facilitated rather than hindered, that effect is magnified by modal shift, and MV effects are materially offset by modal, route and time-of-commute shifts by drivers in response to the changes.</p>
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		<title>By: J:Lai</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136021</link>
		<dc:creator>J:Lai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136021</guid>
		<description>I think Mike and Nat, between them, have hit upon the 2 main reasons why the BTA is underutilized.

A more user-friendly interface would definitely help, as would a way to gain greater confidence in the underlying assumptions.

To address the second point, is there any chance you can get this in a peer-reviewed academic journal (forgive my ignorance if you already have)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mike and Nat, between them, have hit upon the 2 main reasons why the BTA is underutilized.</p>
<p>A more user-friendly interface would definitely help, as would a way to gain greater confidence in the underlying assumptions.</p>
<p>To address the second point, is there any chance you can get this in a peer-reviewed academic journal (forgive my ignorance if you already have)?</p>
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		<title>By: Nat</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-136011</link>
		<dc:creator>Nat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-136011</guid>
		<description>I agree with Mike.  Spreadsheets are difficult for many people to interface with.  Some much more interactive and graphical interface would significantly increase interest in the use of the BTA.  There is also the issue of having faith in the results.  It is very difficult to be fully confident that non-intuitive results that may be predicted by something like the BTA without a full understanding of it.  Graphics helps people get a sense of why a particular result makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mike.  Spreadsheets are difficult for many people to interface with.  Some much more interactive and graphical interface would significantly increase interest in the use of the BTA.  There is also the issue of having faith in the results.  It is very difficult to be fully confident that non-intuitive results that may be predicted by something like the BTA without a full understanding of it.  Graphics helps people get a sense of why a particular result makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/16/wanted-crowd-sourced-transportation-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-135981</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=70961#comment-135981</guid>
		<description>It can&#039;t be a spreadsheet.  Make it sexy, simple and interactive -- I&#039;m thinking like a flash or &quot;web 2.0&quot; (ugh, I hate that phrase) web site.  Make it something that people will really want to play around with and share.

Obviously this requires expertise and funding.  But that&#039;s the way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can&#8217;t be a spreadsheet.  Make it sexy, simple and interactive &#8212; I&#8217;m thinking like a flash or &#8220;web 2.0&#8243; (ugh, I hate that phrase) web site.  Make it something that people will really want to play around with and share.</p>
<p>Obviously this requires expertise and funding.  But that&#8217;s the way to go.</p>
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