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	<title>Comments on: Advice for the Would-Be Car-Free</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: ashleigh Young</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-147311</link>
		<dc:creator>ashleigh Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-147311</guid>
		<description>My husband and I signed up for car sharing too.  We chose Connect (connectbyhertz.com) because it was about $2 cheaper/hour than Zipcar, had cars in better condition, and a lot of tech features like GPS, bluetooth etc.  Definitely worth it for short trips out to NJ every now and then :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband and I signed up for car sharing too.  We chose Connect (connectbyhertz.com) because it was about $2 cheaper/hour than Zipcar, had cars in better condition, and a lot of tech features like GPS, bluetooth etc.  Definitely worth it for short trips out to NJ every now and then <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jass</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129591</link>
		<dc:creator>jass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129591</guid>
		<description>I convinced my sister to go car free in LA by doing the math for her. Shes be spending $20 a day just to have the privilege of having a parked car - gas is extra, as is parking at the destination. A zipcar is much, much cheaper.  (This matches up with the $7,800 given above)

Do the math and then find out where the money can go. X to pay off debt, y for savings and z for a family trip to disney, or a cruise. Suddenly, having a car doesnt make sense when there are alternatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I convinced my sister to go car free in LA by doing the math for her. Shes be spending $20 a day just to have the privilege of having a parked car &#8211; gas is extra, as is parking at the destination. A zipcar is much, much cheaper.  (This matches up with the $7,800 given above)</p>
<p>Do the math and then find out where the money can go. X to pay off debt, y for savings and z for a family trip to disney, or a cruise. Suddenly, having a car doesnt make sense when there are alternatives.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129581</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129581</guid>
		<description>Excellent point Gecko, and the nationwide average cost of owning a car of $7,800 a year hides the cost typical of owning a car in a city like NY, where insurance and parking cost more, and the risk of getting at least a few tickets each year is pretty high (unless you are an &lt;a href=&quot;http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(un)civil servant!)&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point Gecko, and the nationwide average cost of owning a car of $7,800 a year hides the cost typical of owning a car in a city like NY, where insurance and parking cost more, and the risk of getting at least a few tickets each year is pretty high (unless you are an <a href="http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/" rel="nofollow">(un)civil servant!)</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: zgori</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129561</link>
		<dc:creator>zgori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129561</guid>
		<description>The single best way to encourage people to give up car ownership in NYC would be to make car sharing and car rental reasonably affordable and convenient. Spending hundreds of dollars to drive a beat-up hyundai every time you want to want to go away for a three or four day weekend makes car ownership sound appealing even if the math says it&#039;s still, overall, a worse deal.

Instead, we have rental agencies trying to out-gouge each other and politicians who slap extra fees and taxes on car rentals while keeping bridges toll-free. Zipcar is convenient, but not always reliable, and weekend prices are insane.

As long as cars are a fact of life outside of the city, we need reasonable ways to access them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The single best way to encourage people to give up car ownership in NYC would be to make car sharing and car rental reasonably affordable and convenient. Spending hundreds of dollars to drive a beat-up hyundai every time you want to want to go away for a three or four day weekend makes car ownership sound appealing even if the math says it&#8217;s still, overall, a worse deal.</p>
<p>Instead, we have rental agencies trying to out-gouge each other and politicians who slap extra fees and taxes on car rentals while keeping bridges toll-free. Zipcar is convenient, but not always reliable, and weekend prices are insane.</p>
<p>As long as cars are a fact of life outside of the city, we need reasonable ways to access them.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129541</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129541</guid>
		<description>Regarding costs read: 

&quot;A Real Auto Bailout: Escape Your Car, Brett Arends&quot;, WSJ December 22, 2008

http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122996650443826683.html

. . . American Automobile Association figured its members paid about $7,800 a year on average to own and maintain their cars . . .


$7,800 pays for a lot of car rentals, taxis, and limousine services.

Cycling can be much more convenient and enjoyable in many if not most instances in many urban areas especially when it has become a habit just like driving cars although, it can become so easy getting around by bike that many people may get too lazy to walk since they can expend up to four times less energy or go up to four times faster for a given distance, or up to four times further in a given time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding costs read: </p>
<p>&#8220;A Real Auto Bailout: Escape Your Car, Brett Arends&#8221;, WSJ December 22, 2008</p>
<p><a href="http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122996650443826683.html" rel="nofollow">http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122996650443826683.html</a></p>
<p>. . . American Automobile Association figured its members paid about $7,800 a year on average to own and maintain their cars . . .</p>
<p>$7,800 pays for a lot of car rentals, taxis, and limousine services.</p>
<p>Cycling can be much more convenient and enjoyable in many if not most instances in many urban areas especially when it has become a habit just like driving cars although, it can become so easy getting around by bike that many people may get too lazy to walk since they can expend up to four times less energy or go up to four times faster for a given distance, or up to four times further in a given time.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129471</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129471</guid>
		<description>s, 

Parents inevitably teach their kids values, whether explicitly or not, through their actions. One of the great things about our system is that parents have nearly complete authority to teach their kids whatever substantive values they wish. Motorist parents can teach their kids that the streets are dangerous places, don&#039;t enter them except in a motor vehicle, by words, deeds or both.  I have seen many parents, motorists and otherwise, very overtly teach kids their kids that lesson, over and over.

I have different values, and I&#039;m teaching those values to my kids. Teaching is more effective (and poses less of a risk of didacticism or sanctimony) when the kid is shown something concrete that illustrates the point rather than just being handed a statement in the abstract.  If we come upon a traffic or environmental situation that illustrates my values, you bet I&#039;m going to seize that &quot;teachable moment&quot;--in my view, that&#039;s my job as a parent.  One thing I &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;never&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; tell my kids is that we are categorically better than motorists because we use bikes. No sanctimony here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>s, </p>
<p>Parents inevitably teach their kids values, whether explicitly or not, through their actions. One of the great things about our system is that parents have nearly complete authority to teach their kids whatever substantive values they wish. Motorist parents can teach their kids that the streets are dangerous places, don&#8217;t enter them except in a motor vehicle, by words, deeds or both.  I have seen many parents, motorists and otherwise, very overtly teach kids their kids that lesson, over and over.</p>
<p>I have different values, and I&#8217;m teaching those values to my kids. Teaching is more effective (and poses less of a risk of didacticism or sanctimony) when the kid is shown something concrete that illustrates the point rather than just being handed a statement in the abstract.  If we come upon a traffic or environmental situation that illustrates my values, you bet I&#8217;m going to seize that &#8220;teachable moment&#8221;&#8211;in my view, that&#8217;s my job as a parent.  One thing I <i><b>never</b></i> tell my kids is that we are categorically better than motorists because we use bikes. No sanctimony here.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129461</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129461</guid>
		<description>BicyclesOnly&#039;s list is about cycling with kids, not being car-free.  We&#039;ve been car-free for years, but have never ridden bikes with the kids.

For me it was pretty much a no-brainer, and I think it was because I grew up seeing my dad living just fine in the city without a car for forty years.

Other than business, travel or bulk shopping, the only reason I can think of why any New Yorker would want to have a car is as a status symbol, their mark of entry into the middle class.  I just don&#039;t know why they can&#039;t look at all the obviously middle-class people on the bus and subway and realize that you can be car-free and people will still recognize you as middle-class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BicyclesOnly&#8217;s list is about cycling with kids, not being car-free.  We&#8217;ve been car-free for years, but have never ridden bikes with the kids.</p>
<p>For me it was pretty much a no-brainer, and I think it was because I grew up seeing my dad living just fine in the city without a car for forty years.</p>
<p>Other than business, travel or bulk shopping, the only reason I can think of why any New Yorker would want to have a car is as a status symbol, their mark of entry into the middle class.  I just don&#8217;t know why they can&#8217;t look at all the obviously middle-class people on the bus and subway and realize that you can be car-free and people will still recognize you as middle-class.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129451</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129451</guid>
		<description>Nice tips BO! 

One way to justify going car-free is to point out all the hidden fixed costs of owning a car - gas per trip is just the tip of the iceberg. If you don&#039;t need a car everyday or everyweek, it&#039;s really hard to justify owning. Loan payments, insurance, parking, registration/emissions fees, tickets, etc all add up to a lot of dough.

That said, it&#039;s an emotional topic for a lot of people. The easiest thing to do is let a car gracefully decline until it finally dies and not buy a new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice tips BO! </p>
<p>One way to justify going car-free is to point out all the hidden fixed costs of owning a car &#8211; gas per trip is just the tip of the iceberg. If you don&#8217;t need a car everyday or everyweek, it&#8217;s really hard to justify owning. Loan payments, insurance, parking, registration/emissions fees, tickets, etc all add up to a lot of dough.</p>
<p>That said, it&#8217;s an emotional topic for a lot of people. The easiest thing to do is let a car gracefully decline until it finally dies and not buy a new one.</p>
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		<title>By: s</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129431</link>
		<dc:creator>s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129431</guid>
		<description>9) Make stops at the site of traffic collisions or fouled/polluted areas and explain to kids that one of the reasons for biking is that it is important for everyone to avoid contributing to these problems.

Can&#039;t cycling and walking just be its own reward?  Couldn&#039;t a driver just as easily point out to an injured biker on the side of the road and say to his kids, &quot;See, that&#039;s why we&#039;re in a car.&quot;  Is this a livable streets version of the &quot;Scared Straight&quot; program?

Being car-free is great.  In fact, I love it.  But being sanctimony-free is also a nice quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>9) Make stops at the site of traffic collisions or fouled/polluted areas and explain to kids that one of the reasons for biking is that it is important for everyone to avoid contributing to these problems.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t cycling and walking just be its own reward?  Couldn&#8217;t a driver just as easily point out to an injured biker on the side of the road and say to his kids, &#8220;See, that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re in a car.&#8221;  Is this a livable streets version of the &#8220;Scared Straight&#8221; program?</p>
<p>Being car-free is great.  In fact, I love it.  But being sanctimony-free is also a nice quality.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129401</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129401</guid>
		<description>The key to &quot;car free with kids&quot; in the city is to be patient and make it fun; here are some personal tips for what it is worth:

1) Do the research necessary to find fun bike-accessible events and destinations that kids will enjoy.  

2) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/urban-bicycling-with-children&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Learn how to bicycle with kids in the city safely.&lt;/a&gt;

3) Let kids know that your willingness to allow them to bike on the road is a measure of your confidence in their maturity, but that they need to reciprocate by deferring unquestioningly to all your safety-related instructions. Never channel your &quot;road rage&quot; at a motorist toward the kids.

4) Try to get other families involved.

5) Compose and sing fun biking songs or play interlocutory trivia games (for kids not too old to be distracted by such things while riding) during the trip--as families in cars used to do before cars and kids came equipped with DVD players and DS&#039;s.

6) Let the kids have at least occasional veto power over whether to bike; just make sure to offer biking as the default option whenever possible.  Don&#039;t insist on biking in the rain or bitter cold (or, even fair weather, at least for routine trips); accede to kids&#039; ill-timed proposals to bike in the rain or bitter cold with good cheer; and accept that there will be aborted trips that must be completed by carrying the bikes onto the subway, a (cargo-accessible) taxi, or even by locking the bikes up in a remote spot to be picked up by the adult the next day.

7) Make one-way trips possible by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/manganite/355069922/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;learning how to ferry a second empty bike while riding your own.&lt;/a&gt;

8) Use the money saved by biking and not driving or using transit to buy a guilt-free treat.

9) Make stops at the site of traffic collisions or fouled/polluted areas and explain to kids that one of the reasons for biking is that it is important for everyone to avoid contributing to these problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key to &#8220;car free with kids&#8221; in the city is to be patient and make it fun; here are some personal tips for what it is worth:</p>
<p>1) Do the research necessary to find fun bike-accessible events and destinations that kids will enjoy.  </p>
<p>2) <a href="http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/urban-bicycling-with-children" rel="nofollow">Learn how to bicycle with kids in the city safely.</a></p>
<p>3) Let kids know that your willingness to allow them to bike on the road is a measure of your confidence in their maturity, but that they need to reciprocate by deferring unquestioningly to all your safety-related instructions. Never channel your &#8220;road rage&#8221; at a motorist toward the kids.</p>
<p>4) Try to get other families involved.</p>
<p>5) Compose and sing fun biking songs or play interlocutory trivia games (for kids not too old to be distracted by such things while riding) during the trip&#8211;as families in cars used to do before cars and kids came equipped with DVD players and DS&#8217;s.</p>
<p>6) Let the kids have at least occasional veto power over whether to bike; just make sure to offer biking as the default option whenever possible.  Don&#8217;t insist on biking in the rain or bitter cold (or, even fair weather, at least for routine trips); accede to kids&#8217; ill-timed proposals to bike in the rain or bitter cold with good cheer; and accept that there will be aborted trips that must be completed by carrying the bikes onto the subway, a (cargo-accessible) taxi, or even by locking the bikes up in a remote spot to be picked up by the adult the next day.</p>
<p>7) Make one-way trips possible by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/manganite/355069922/" rel="nofollow">learning how to ferry a second empty bike while riding your own.</a></p>
<p> <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> Use the money saved by biking and not driving or using transit to buy a guilt-free treat.</p>
<p>9) Make stops at the site of traffic collisions or fouled/polluted areas and explain to kids that one of the reasons for biking is that it is important for everyone to avoid contributing to these problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Wiley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/10/05/advice-for-the-would-be-car-free/comment-page-1/#comment-129391</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=62391#comment-129391</guid>
		<description>My wife and I are having the same debate right now. My car is long gone and her car is used so infrequently we had to buy a battery charger so we can start it after a couple of months of disuse. Still it is a bit of a security blanket, and going completely car free is a huge step in a not very dense city. In our case we&#039;d donate it to e-Go Carshare and open up the Longmont branch. I&#039;d feel really good about that, but it&#039;s her car. I&#039;m can encourage, nagging, it has been firmly indicated, is right out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I are having the same debate right now. My car is long gone and her car is used so infrequently we had to buy a battery charger so we can start it after a couple of months of disuse. Still it is a bit of a security blanket, and going completely car free is a huge step in a not very dense city. In our case we&#8217;d donate it to e-Go Carshare and open up the Longmont branch. I&#8217;d feel really good about that, but it&#8217;s her car. I&#8217;m can encourage, nagging, it has been firmly indicated, is right out.</p>
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