Comments on: The Case for Open MTA Data: Transparency, Savings, and Easier Riding http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-123391 gecko Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:33:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-123391 #13 Shemp, "Or you could ride around and get to know a place without reference to some gadget that requires the government to fire a rocket into orbit." Not if you are in an area for the first time. GPS applications have proven quite useful in places I have never been before or am not familiar with. Verizon GPS even provides navigation and maps for bicycles. #13 Shemp, “Or you could ride around and get to know a place without reference to some gadget that requires the government to fire a rocket into orbit.”

Not if you are in an area for the first time. GPS applications have proven quite useful in places I have never been before or am not familiar with.

Verizon GPS even provides navigation and maps for bicycles.

]]> By: Michael Miller http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-123371 Michael Miller Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:40:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-123371 Actually, you don't even need "a plain old cell phone with text messaging" to get real-time arrival info in Portland. TriMet's Transit Tracker has been available to anyone with a touch-tone phone since 2004; speed-dial the number, punch in the stop ID (most if not all stops now have them posted), and you get real-time arrival info for bus, light rail or streetcar. The live data is incredibly useful - I call it all the time: to know if I need to run to my stop; to see how long the wait is for the following bus, in case the first one is packed; to know whether I have time to grab a cup of coffee or not. TriMet also provides it in a well-designed web interface. Here's a stop not far from my office: http://www.trimet.org/arrivals/tracker.html?locationID=9301&x=0&y=0 Actually, you don’t even need “a plain old cell phone with text messaging” to get real-time arrival info in Portland. TriMet’s Transit Tracker has been available to anyone with a touch-tone phone since 2004; speed-dial the number, punch in the stop ID (most if not all stops now have them posted), and you get real-time arrival info for bus, light rail or streetcar.

The live data is incredibly useful – I call it all the time: to know if I need to run to my stop; to see how long the wait is for the following bus, in case the first one is packed; to know whether I have time to grab a cup of coffee or not.

TriMet also provides it in a well-designed web interface. Here’s a stop not far from my office: http://www.trimet.org/arrivals/tracker.html?locationID=9301&x=0&y=0

]]> By: P http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-123121 P Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:16:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-123121 Check out what the London Underground has: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2uH-jrsSxs&feature=player_embedded Check out what the London Underground has: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2uH-jrsSxs&feature=player_embedded

]]> By: Marty Barfowitz http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122871 Marty Barfowitz Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:14:57 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122871 Yeah, but it's not like anyone is asking the MTA to launch a rocket into space here. The satellites are already up there beaming Howard Stern and Martha Stewart to Sirius Radio customers and working with my Garmin Edge 705 to ensure that I don't get lost biking loops around Prospect Park. Isn't it kind of pathetic that the MTA can't get real-time info to its customers, particularly when there's a whole community of software developers out there who basically want to help them do it and they are even willing to work for free? It ain't rocket science, MTA. Yeah, but it’s not like anyone is asking the MTA to launch a rocket into space here. The satellites are already up there beaming Howard Stern and Martha Stewart to Sirius Radio customers and working with my Garmin Edge 705 to ensure that I don’t get lost biking loops around Prospect Park. Isn’t it kind of pathetic that the MTA can’t get real-time info to its customers, particularly when there’s a whole community of software developers out there who basically want to help them do it and they are even willing to work for free?

It ain’t rocket science, MTA.

]]> By: Shemp http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122851 Shemp Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:00:40 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122851 Or you could ride around and get to know a place without reference to some gadget that requires the government to fire a rocket into orbit. Or you could ride around and get to know a place without reference to some gadget that requires the government to fire a rocket into orbit.

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122831 gecko Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:41:27 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122831 Realtime mobile applications especially making use of global positioning systems probably have considerable potential people who travel by bicycles and similar small vehicles because they can stop, start, change route, adapt and interact with local considitions quite easily. Realtime mobile applications especially making use of global positioning systems probably have considerable potential people who travel by bicycles and similar small vehicles because they can stop, start, change route, adapt and interact with local considitions quite easily.

]]> By: Aaron Naparstek http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122621 Aaron Naparstek Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:27:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122621 A few years ago I recall Brian Ketcham showing me a report that suggested real-time scheduling information had substantially increased bus ridership in Paris, France. I will poke around and try to find that again. If true, then you could probably make a real argument that real-time transit info has the potential to generate more revenue for the MTA while, obviously, improving service for riders. Jonathan: Maybe the bus becomes a more attractive option for more people when customers are given a more concrete sense of when the bus is actually coming. A few years ago I recall Brian Ketcham showing me a report that suggested real-time scheduling information had substantially increased bus ridership in Paris, France.

I will poke around and try to find that again. If true, then you could probably make a real argument that real-time transit info has the potential to generate more revenue for the MTA while, obviously, improving service for riders.

Jonathan: Maybe the bus becomes a more attractive option for more people when customers are given a more concrete sense of when the bus is actually coming.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122561 Jonathan Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:13:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122561 Mr. Komanoff, wouldn't ridership perhaps decrease as better informed straphangers, newly made aware that a train is <i>not</i> coming in the next 20 minutes, choose to take a taxi instead? Mr. Komanoff, wouldn’t ridership perhaps decrease as better informed straphangers, newly made aware that a train is not coming in the next 20 minutes, choose to take a taxi instead?

]]> By: LP http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122541 LP Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:10:28 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122541 "...formal relationship with a developer that will enable us to work together to ensure that the data being presented is accurate.." This is disingenuous at best - App developers obviously have a huge stake in accurate data, that's the point. "...to clothing merchants to home furnishings manufacturers" Because inaccurate shower curtains would be a heavy blow to the MTAs home furnishings cred. “…formal relationship with a developer that will enable us to work together to ensure that the data being presented is accurate..” This is disingenuous at best – App developers obviously have a huge stake in accurate data, that’s the point.

“…to clothing merchants to home furnishings manufacturers”
Because inaccurate shower curtains would be a heavy blow to the MTAs home furnishings cred.

]]> By: Charles Komanoff http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122531 Charles Komanoff Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:06:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122531 I'm not sure that open-source development for real-time info apps would cut MTA costs noticeably. But there could be other big benefits beyond those noted. What if New Yorkers viewed access to real-time transit info as a service improvement like faster service? Using the <a href="http://www.nnyn.org/kheelplan/BTA_1.1.xls" rel="nofollow">Balanced Transportation Analyzer</a>, I estimate that an average 1% saving in transit speeds would increase transit ridership by 0.5%-0.7%, adding around $10 million a year to NYC transit revenues. I have no idea what value New Yorkers would actually place on the info. But the equation above suggests that even a low valuation could translate into a big MTA revenue boost (not to mention reduced auto traffic as some car and taxi trips shift to subway and bus). I’m not sure that open-source development for real-time info apps would cut MTA costs noticeably. But there could be other big benefits beyond those noted.

What if New Yorkers viewed access to real-time transit info as a service improvement like faster service? Using the Balanced Transportation Analyzer, I estimate that an average 1% saving in transit speeds would increase transit ridership by 0.5%-0.7%, adding around $10 million a year to NYC transit revenues.

I have no idea what value New Yorkers would actually place on the info. But the equation above suggests that even a low valuation could translate into a big MTA revenue boost (not to mention reduced auto traffic as some car and taxi trips shift to subway and bus).

]]> By: danlatorre http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122501 danlatorre Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:19:12 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122501 Great point about Mint.com Pete, I'm coming from a product design background and will try to bring in some experienced Interaction Designers into Nicholas' meetup, connecting civic-oriented Interaction Design professionals with Tech professionals could lead to some great stuff. Great point about Mint.com Pete, I’m coming from a product design background and will try to bring in some experienced Interaction Designers into Nicholas’ meetup, connecting civic-oriented Interaction Design professionals with Tech professionals could lead to some great stuff.

]]> By: Nicholas Bergson-Shilcock http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122451 Nicholas Bergson-Shilcock Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:26:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122451 @J:Lai and @Pete I agree that's the right path to take. And a group of us is trying to do just what you suggested: Open up a constructive dialogue between the developer community and the MTA. Check out our website (http://nytransitdata.org) and, if you're interested in helping out with this, join our meetup group: http://nytransitdata.org/meetup @J:Lai and @Pete I agree that’s the right path to take. And a group of us is trying to do just what you suggested: Open up a constructive dialogue between the developer community and the MTA. Check out our website (http://nytransitdata.org) and, if you’re interested in helping out with this, join our meetup group: http://nytransitdata.org/meetup

]]> By: Pete http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122411 Pete Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:59:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122411 J:Lai has it right. The MTA should get out of the business of trying to present the data to the end user, and just provide it for others to access - e.g. real-time feeds of the GPS coordinates of all city buses, trains, etc. Give it to those people who can really make use of it & present it in useful form to the end user. For example, look at mint.com - They don't actually handle any of your data, that's all done by another company - Yodlee. Mint.com simply had a bunch of people who were really good at UI design. J:Lai has it right. The MTA should get out of the business of trying to present the data to the end user, and just provide it for others to access – e.g. real-time feeds of the GPS coordinates of all city buses, trains, etc. Give it to those people who can really make use of it & present it in useful form to the end user.

For example, look at mint.com – They don’t actually handle any of your data, that’s all done by another company – Yodlee. Mint.com simply had a bunch of people who were really good at UI design.

]]> By: danlatorre http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122361 danlatorre Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:49:11 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122361 When decisions get made in a transparent city, we don't call it Hierarchy. We call it Leadership. ... paraphrasing Michael Idinopulos' excellent post about how Transparency improves Decision making. http://michaeli.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/09/transparency-not-anarchy.html This is the era where organizations in all sectors are coming around to realize benefits of openness. No better time than the present, we have many challenges ahead to deal with together, and a vital and informed city improves our chances of best outcomes. When decisions get made in a transparent city, we don’t call it Hierarchy. We call it Leadership.

… paraphrasing Michael Idinopulos’ excellent post about how Transparency improves Decision making.
http://michaeli.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/09/transparency-not-anarchy.html

This is the era where organizations in all sectors are coming around to realize benefits of openness. No better time than the present, we have many challenges ahead to deal with together, and a vital and informed city improves our chances of best outcomes.

]]> By: Carfree Chicago http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122311 Carfree Chicago Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:39:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122311 I'm surprised to say it, but Chicago actually seems to be ahead of the game on this one. The CTA may not be as large or as difficult to change as the MTA, but it is still the nation's second-largest transit agency, so it's impressive to see them implement these concepts. The CTA's Bus Tracker now includes every bus line, and they've opened up the tracking data to developers with a new API. There were already some good mobile applications out there for finding next bus times, but I hope the official API will make it easier for more developers to create even better apps. One very cool example is a Chamber of Commerce that's using the API and installing screens in storefronts showing next bus times. Great example of how open date empowers the community to meet rider needs that the agency doesn't have resources to meet. http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=2450 I’m surprised to say it, but Chicago actually seems to be ahead of the game on this one. The CTA may not be as large or as difficult to change as the MTA, but it is still the nation’s second-largest transit agency, so it’s impressive to see them implement these concepts. The CTA’s Bus Tracker now includes every bus line, and they’ve opened up the tracking data to developers with a new API. There were already some good mobile applications out there for finding next bus times, but I hope the official API will make it easier for more developers to create even better apps. One very cool example is a Chamber of Commerce that’s using the API and installing screens in storefronts showing next bus times. Great example of how open date empowers the community to meet rider needs that the agency doesn’t have resources to meet.

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=2450

]]> By: StationStops http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122291 StationStops Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:25:00 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122291 Outstanding article Ben, nails all of the latest concerns perfectly. Outstanding article Ben, nails all of the latest concerns perfectly.

]]> By: J:Lai http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/23/the-case-for-open-mta-data-transparency-savings-and-easier-riding/comment-page-1/#comment-122281 J:Lai Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:21:55 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=52811#comment-122281 Or what about the MTA partnering with developers. Instead of waiting 5 yrs for real-time bus arrival info at bus stops, the MTA could put GPS locators in the buses, make the data public, and let developers use it how they want. Seems like this would be faster and cheaper than the current method. Or what about the MTA partnering with developers. Instead of waiting 5 yrs for real-time bus arrival info at bus stops, the MTA could put GPS locators in the buses, make the data public, and let developers use it how they want. Seems like this would be faster and cheaper than the current method.

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