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	<title>Comments on: Eyes on the Street: Bike Crash in Inwood</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: aliostuni</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116511</link>
		<dc:creator>aliostuni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116511</guid>
		<description>Kaja, that was re: RBB (clearly two separate paragraphs.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaja, that was re: RBB (clearly two separate paragraphs.)</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116381</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116381</guid>
		<description>The painted lanes have value, even when overlapping the dooring zone, because they are reasonably safe for use at 5-8 MPH by vigilant bicyclists.  A substantial minority, perhaps even a majority, of motorists respect them.  It is just too stressful for 5 MPH bicyclists--mostly novices, the young and the old--to take a MV lane, because of motorist harassment.  Painted lanes gives these folks a chance to become comfortable, over time, with bicycling in MV traffic. 

It is realistic to expect motorists to look before they open their doors because it poses a real risk of serious injury. A much greater risk, in my view, than most instances in which a motorist exercising reasonable caution engages in moderate speeding or runs a red light. The problem is that motorists think that speeding and red-light running is the more serious violation than opening the door without looking, because they don&#039;t see it from the bicyclist&#039;s perspective, and cops never ticket them for dooring. 

Someone should file a FOIL request to get the police report on this collision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The painted lanes have value, even when overlapping the dooring zone, because they are reasonably safe for use at 5-8 MPH by vigilant bicyclists.  A substantial minority, perhaps even a majority, of motorists respect them.  It is just too stressful for 5 MPH bicyclists&#8211;mostly novices, the young and the old&#8211;to take a MV lane, because of motorist harassment.  Painted lanes gives these folks a chance to become comfortable, over time, with bicycling in MV traffic. </p>
<p>It is realistic to expect motorists to look before they open their doors because it poses a real risk of serious injury. A much greater risk, in my view, than most instances in which a motorist exercising reasonable caution engages in moderate speeding or runs a red light. The problem is that motorists think that speeding and red-light running is the more serious violation than opening the door without looking, because they don&#8217;t see it from the bicyclist&#8217;s perspective, and cops never ticket them for dooring. </p>
<p>Someone should file a FOIL request to get the police report on this collision.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116361</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116361</guid>
		<description>Nanterking&#039;s right, guns have nothing to do with this. They also don&#039;t fire themselves. Nor does possessing a gun make you liable to use it in anger.

Quit alienating the livable streets supporters who also pack heat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nanterking&#8217;s right, guns have nothing to do with this. They also don&#8217;t fire themselves. Nor does possessing a gun make you liable to use it in anger.</p>
<p>Quit alienating the livable streets supporters who also pack heat.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116341</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116341</guid>
		<description>nanterking: Some NYPD officers have a hard enough time getting out of hybrid patrol cars http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/nyregion/30hybrid.html We certainly don&#039;t want them wobbling around like a herd of fashionistas, dragging their guns, or worse, falling on them ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nanterking: Some NYPD officers have a hard enough time getting out of hybrid patrol cars <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/nyregion/30hybrid.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/nyregion/30hybrid.html</a> We certainly don&#8217;t want them wobbling around like a herd of fashionistas, dragging their guns, or worse, falling on them <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116311</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116311</guid>
		<description>&gt; It&#039;s fascinating to me that you also endorse routine law-breaking by certain segments of society. Give the benefit of the doubt to the NYPD? Ooh, that&#039;s a good one.

I&#039;m the most consistently antipolice poster on Streetsblog. I implied none of the above; only that you&#039;re beating a dead horse. Next someone&#039;s gonna point out that you can&#039;t bail a separated lane when it&#039;s blocked, or an effective cyclist is gonna say you should be in traffic like a car if you&#039;re riding at all, and then we&#039;ll have a derailed thread on our hands.

Sweet strawman though, textbook execution. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; It&#8217;s fascinating to me that you also endorse routine law-breaking by certain segments of society. Give the benefit of the doubt to the NYPD? Ooh, that&#8217;s a good one.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m the most consistently antipolice poster on Streetsblog. I implied none of the above; only that you&#8217;re beating a dead horse. Next someone&#8217;s gonna point out that you can&#8217;t bail a separated lane when it&#8217;s blocked, or an effective cyclist is gonna say you should be in traffic like a car if you&#8217;re riding at all, and then we&#8217;ll have a derailed thread on our hands.</p>
<p>Sweet strawman though, textbook execution. <img src='http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: nanterking</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116281</link>
		<dc:creator>nanterking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116281</guid>
		<description>Stacy - What does carrying a gun have to do with being experienced or inexperienced with a bicycle?

Very good points, aliostuni.  You guys can be a little inconsistent here - on a site where every single auto driver is assumed to be in a state of perpetual law-breaking, to quote a statute that says people have to make sure the lane is clear before opening the door is just laughable.  So they&#039;ll break all the laws but this one, and no bicyclist relegated to the bike lane has ever been doored?

Oh, but we should ride slower so it&#039;s safer, right?  So on a road where we could ride with traffic in absence of a bike lane, doing 20 mph, in the presence of a bike lane now we should have to ride 5-8 mph so we can stop in time should someone swing a door open?  I find it hard to believe a cyclist would actually espouse such nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stacy &#8211; What does carrying a gun have to do with being experienced or inexperienced with a bicycle?</p>
<p>Very good points, aliostuni.  You guys can be a little inconsistent here &#8211; on a site where every single auto driver is assumed to be in a state of perpetual law-breaking, to quote a statute that says people have to make sure the lane is clear before opening the door is just laughable.  So they&#8217;ll break all the laws but this one, and no bicyclist relegated to the bike lane has ever been doored?</p>
<p>Oh, but we should ride slower so it&#8217;s safer, right?  So on a road where we could ride with traffic in absence of a bike lane, doing 20 mph, in the presence of a bike lane now we should have to ride 5-8 mph so we can stop in time should someone swing a door open?  I find it hard to believe a cyclist would actually espouse such nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: aliostuni</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116261</link>
		<dc:creator>aliostuni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116261</guid>
		<description>Re: Kaja, while a fairly amusing sarcastic comment, calling for protected lanes is something that bears repeating.  Pedestrians have protected sidewalks, motorists have unfettered access to roads, and cyclists need to have dedicated infrastructure.  If even the livable streets movement accepts second-class citizenry, then we have very little hope for change.
Re: rbb, &quot;Protected lanes or no lanes mentality isn&#039;t realistic&quot;: why?  Other countries have no problem with this.  Let me remind you that NYS law provides for the cyclist taking an entire lane when no painted &quot;bike&quot; lane is available.  All the painted lane does is relegate the cyclist to a small, dangerous portion of a lane they&#039;d otherwise be entitled to in full.  And it allows self-entitled motorists to exercise a perceived right to enforce &quot;bike&quot; lane usage.  It&#039;s fascinating to me that you also endorse routine law-breaking by certain segments of society.  Give the benefit of the doubt to the NYPD?  Ooh, that&#039;s a good one.
Rather disappointing consideration of alternate view points on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Kaja, while a fairly amusing sarcastic comment, calling for protected lanes is something that bears repeating.  Pedestrians have protected sidewalks, motorists have unfettered access to roads, and cyclists need to have dedicated infrastructure.  If even the livable streets movement accepts second-class citizenry, then we have very little hope for change.<br />
Re: rbb, &#8220;Protected lanes or no lanes mentality isn&#8217;t realistic&#8221;: why?  Other countries have no problem with this.  Let me remind you that NYS law provides for the cyclist taking an entire lane when no painted &#8220;bike&#8221; lane is available.  All the painted lane does is relegate the cyclist to a small, dangerous portion of a lane they&#8217;d otherwise be entitled to in full.  And it allows self-entitled motorists to exercise a perceived right to enforce &#8220;bike&#8221; lane usage.  It&#8217;s fascinating to me that you also endorse routine law-breaking by certain segments of society.  Give the benefit of the doubt to the NYPD?  Ooh, that&#8217;s a good one.<br />
Rather disappointing consideration of alternate view points on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: rex</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116251</link>
		<dc:creator>rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116251</guid>
		<description>Josh, from the picture I think it would be the whole sunglasses on the head thing. It is just not right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, from the picture I think it would be the whole sunglasses on the head thing. It is just not right.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Epstein</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116241</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Epstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116241</guid>
		<description>NYC Traffic Rules 4-12C: &#039;No person shall get out of any vehicle from the side facing on the traveled part of the street in such manner as to interfere with the right of the operator of an approaching vehicle or bicycle.&#039;

VTL 1214: &#039;No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on the side available to moving  traffic  unless and  until  it  is  reasonably  safe  to  do so, and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic,  nor  shall  any  person leave  a  door open on the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NYC Traffic Rules 4-12C: &#8216;No person shall get out of any vehicle from the side facing on the traveled part of the street in such manner as to interfere with the right of the operator of an approaching vehicle or bicycle.&#8217;</p>
<p>VTL 1214: &#8216;No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on the side available to moving  traffic  unless and  until  it  is  reasonably  safe  to  do so, and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic,  nor  shall  any  person leave  a  door open on the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116221</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116221</guid>
		<description>&quot;I called the 34th Precinct this morning to verify that the cyclist was transported and to ask if the driver received a summons.&quot;

What would the charge be if she were to receive a summons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I called the 34th Precinct this morning to verify that the cyclist was transported and to ask if the driver received a summons.&#8221;</p>
<p>What would the charge be if she were to receive a summons?</p>
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		<title>By: rbb</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116211</link>
		<dc:creator>rbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116211</guid>
		<description>aliostuni :

WUT. 

Painted lanes in dooring range put cyclists at risk of dooring - if they within dooring range. Riding slow-ish and being observant is enough to keep it from happening. Protected lanes or no lanes mentality isn&#039;t realistic, and fails to consider lanes like Prince Street, West 10th Street, and other curbside painted lanes around the city.

Also, you could argue that all the emergency vehicles in this photo are parked in a manner that is dangerous to cyclists. But that would be really annoying. Emergencies are emergencies, and when you see a police car in the bike lane, you should be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and just SLOW DOWN. When you see the cops having a lunch break right nearby, then you&#039;ve got great reason to be annoyed. 

The manner in which the cyclist rides into traffic because of the patrol car is up to the individual cyclist. They don&#039;t have to do it in an unpredictable manner, especially since they can see it from practically Cumming Street!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aliostuni :</p>
<p>WUT. </p>
<p>Painted lanes in dooring range put cyclists at risk of dooring &#8211; if they within dooring range. Riding slow-ish and being observant is enough to keep it from happening. Protected lanes or no lanes mentality isn&#8217;t realistic, and fails to consider lanes like Prince Street, West 10th Street, and other curbside painted lanes around the city.</p>
<p>Also, you could argue that all the emergency vehicles in this photo are parked in a manner that is dangerous to cyclists. But that would be really annoying. Emergencies are emergencies, and when you see a police car in the bike lane, you should be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and just SLOW DOWN. When you see the cops having a lunch break right nearby, then you&#8217;ve got great reason to be annoyed. </p>
<p>The manner in which the cyclist rides into traffic because of the patrol car is up to the individual cyclist. They don&#8217;t have to do it in an unpredictable manner, especially since they can see it from practically Cumming Street!</p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116201</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116201</guid>
		<description>&gt; Protected lanes or no lanes.

If you beat a dead horse enough, it arises as a zombie horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Protected lanes or no lanes.</p>
<p>If you beat a dead horse enough, it arises as a zombie horse.</p>
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		<title>By: aliostuni</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116191</link>
		<dc:creator>aliostuni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116191</guid>
		<description>The real lesson from this is that painted lanes in dooring range are dangerous.  Also, the NYPD patrol car parked in said lane forces cyclists out into traffic in an unpredictable manner, another reason painted lanes are dangerous.  Protected lanes or no lanes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real lesson from this is that painted lanes in dooring range are dangerous.  Also, the NYPD patrol car parked in said lane forces cyclists out into traffic in an unpredictable manner, another reason painted lanes are dangerous.  Protected lanes or no lanes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116171</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116171</guid>
		<description>The 34th Pct has bike cops. I&#039;ve seen them on Broadway, haranguing the kids who ride fast down the hill on 187th St (then take the elevator back up).

Kaja, very astute observations there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 34th Pct has bike cops. I&#8217;ve seen them on Broadway, haranguing the kids who ride fast down the hill on 187th St (then take the elevator back up).</p>
<p>Kaja, very astute observations there.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116161</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116161</guid>
		<description>Cops on bikes will be huge dicks, just like cops in cars are. There&#039;s an occasional bike patrol in Brooklyn Heights, and all they do is ride the wrong way and on the sidewalk.

The problem is the cops. Changing their conveyance won&#039;t engender any sympathy from them. They&#039;re unsympathetic because they&#039;re basically a protected class, and as such have different incentives, motivations.

The answer lies in rolling back the militarization of the police, and also in separating &#039;support for &#039;our boys in blue&#039; from the concept of good citizenship.

Someday it will become acceptable in polite society to hate cops. White folks over thirty just don&#039;t get it yet; they see it as a mark of criminality or a lack of class. Confronted with videotaped police brutality (for instance), they spout excuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cops on bikes will be huge dicks, just like cops in cars are. There&#8217;s an occasional bike patrol in Brooklyn Heights, and all they do is ride the wrong way and on the sidewalk.</p>
<p>The problem is the cops. Changing their conveyance won&#8217;t engender any sympathy from them. They&#8217;re unsympathetic because they&#8217;re basically a protected class, and as such have different incentives, motivations.</p>
<p>The answer lies in rolling back the militarization of the police, and also in separating &#8216;support for &#8216;our boys in blue&#8217; from the concept of good citizenship.</p>
<p>Someday it will become acceptable in polite society to hate cops. White folks over thirty just don&#8217;t get it yet; they see it as a mark of criminality or a lack of class. Confronted with videotaped police brutality (for instance), they spout excuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116131</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116131</guid>
		<description>My understanding is police officers can volunteer for community patrol on bikes but it&#039;s not mandatory. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised is there were a fair number of police on the force who don&#039;t know how to ride a bike, just as there are officers who don&#039;t know how to ride a motorcycle or a horse.  Sending an inexperienced cyclist out into City traffic, armed with a gun, doesn&#039;t sound like a very good idea to me.

When I was in Philadelphia for protests surrounding the 2000 Republican National Convention Police Commissioner Timony had cops on  bikes for crowd control. Officers were trained to line up and use their bikes as a moveable barricade as well as defend themselves against over excited protestors. That&#039;s part of police training - not the kind of tactic officers are supposed to use spontaneously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is police officers can volunteer for community patrol on bikes but it&#8217;s not mandatory. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised is there were a fair number of police on the force who don&#8217;t know how to ride a bike, just as there are officers who don&#8217;t know how to ride a motorcycle or a horse.  Sending an inexperienced cyclist out into City traffic, armed with a gun, doesn&#8217;t sound like a very good idea to me.</p>
<p>When I was in Philadelphia for protests surrounding the 2000 Republican National Convention Police Commissioner Timony had cops on  bikes for crowd control. Officers were trained to line up and use their bikes as a moveable barricade as well as defend themselves against over excited protestors. That&#8217;s part of police training &#8211; not the kind of tactic officers are supposed to use spontaneously.</p>
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		<title>By: lee</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/eyes-on-the-street-bike-crash-in-inwood/comment-page-1/#comment-116101</link>
		<dc:creator>lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=44491#comment-116101</guid>
		<description>Is there any rotation with nypd of officers between modes of transportation?

That is, do officers do a 6-month stint in a patrol car, a few months in the little tripod car, motorcycle, and bicycle? 

I think it would benefit nypd/cyclist relations greatly and certainly affect the way nypd react to crashes if cops had to do a 3 week rotation on bike a few times a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any rotation with nypd of officers between modes of transportation?</p>
<p>That is, do officers do a 6-month stint in a patrol car, a few months in the little tripod car, motorcycle, and bicycle? </p>
<p>I think it would benefit nypd/cyclist relations greatly and certainly affect the way nypd react to crashes if cops had to do a 3 week rotation on bike a few times a year.</p>
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