Comments on: Eyes on the Street: How Did This Happen? http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: BicyclesOnly http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109641 BicyclesOnly Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:15:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109641 Three out of the four times I have been hit while biking it has been by a cab, but I think the all the generalizations about dangerous cab drivers in this string go a bit overboard. There are surely dangerous and discourteous cabbies out there, but there are also many, probably most, who drive within the speed limit and very cautiously. I have observed this many, many times while biking and from the inside of cabs. Many of them seem more afraid of a collision than the typical private motorist. Three out of the four times I have been hit while biking it has been by a cab, but I think the all the generalizations about dangerous cab drivers in this string go a bit overboard. There are surely dangerous and discourteous cabbies out there, but there are also many, probably most, who drive within the speed limit and very cautiously. I have observed this many, many times while biking and from the inside of cabs. Many of them seem more afraid of a collision than the typical private motorist.

]]> By: PCO http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109201 PCO Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:22:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109201 What happened to the TLC trying out speed and red light cameras for cabs? Word was the TLC had the regulatory power to do this. Do they? What happened to the TLC trying out speed and red light cameras for cabs? Word was the TLC had the regulatory power to do this. Do they?

]]> By: Shemp http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109101 Shemp Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:41:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109101 My experience is different than Fendergal's. I avoid cabs generally because, as a cyclist, I find their driving practices hateful. But for the occasional LaGuardia trip or off-hours JFK flight, I use them. I almost always find that they have imported the driving habits of Islamabad or Moscow that give those places extreme traffic fatality/capita rates. My experience is different than Fendergal’s. I avoid cabs generally because, as a cyclist, I find their driving practices hateful. But for the occasional LaGuardia trip or off-hours JFK flight, I use them. I almost always find that they have imported the driving habits of Islamabad or Moscow that give those places extreme traffic fatality/capita rates.

]]> By: Sarah Goodyear http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109061 Sarah Goodyear Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:18:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109061 Trish, You can uplaod it to Flickr and tag it "streetsblog", or send it to tips [at] streetsblog [dot] org. Trish, You can uplaod it to Flickr and tag it “streetsblog”, or send it to tips [at] streetsblog [dot] org.

]]> By: Vroomfondel http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109051 Vroomfondel Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:18:29 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109051 Oops, typo: The London test is called "The Knowledge". Oops, typo: The London test is called “The Knowledge”.

]]> By: Vroomfondel http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109041 Vroomfondel Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:17:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109041 Marty, London taxi drivers have to demonstrate intimate knowledge of the inner city of London in a test known as "The Knowledges". They basically have to memorize all streets within six miles of Charing Cross. Training takes three years, three quarters drop out, and brain scans show that areas associated with memory and navigation are enlarged in London cabbies. New York cabbies, on the other hand, barely know how to drive. The other day I had to give a driver directions to Washington Square Park, but at least he didn't drive off in some random direction like some other drivers I've encountered. It's a disgrace, but looking at the fare structure, I guess we get the cabbies we deserve. Marty,
London taxi drivers have to demonstrate intimate knowledge of the inner city of London in a test known as “The Knowledges”. They basically have to memorize all streets within six miles of Charing Cross. Training takes three years, three quarters drop out, and brain scans show that areas associated with memory and navigation are enlarged in London cabbies.

New York cabbies, on the other hand, barely know how to drive. The other day I had to give a driver directions to Washington Square Park, but at least he didn’t drive off in some random direction like some other drivers I’ve encountered. It’s a disgrace, but looking at the fare structure, I guess we get the cabbies we deserve.

]]> By: Geiger http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-109031 Geiger Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-109031 Jon - But there is no "claiming" the speed limit was incorrect. ODOT says it was. Seems fair to me that the tickets be thrown out. If the interstates were marked as 25mph rather than 65 for a short segment and there were a bunch of tickets handed out you would be mad too. Even more if you realized that it wasn't supposed to be 25mph anyway and was supposed to be 65mph. Jon – But there is no “claiming” the speed limit was incorrect. ODOT says it was. Seems fair to me that the tickets be thrown out. If the interstates were marked as 25mph rather than 65 for a short segment and there were a bunch of tickets handed out you would be mad too. Even more if you realized that it wasn’t supposed to be 25mph anyway and was supposed to be 65mph.

]]> By: Josh http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108991 Josh Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:50:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108991 The fare structures in NY and London are basically the same. There's a drop charge ($2.50 in NY, not including night/peak surcharge; £2.20 in London, covering a variable amount of time/distance depending on peak status) and then a usage* charge ($0.40 per 1/5 mile or 60 seconds in stopped/slow traffic in NY; 20p per time/distance unit in London, with the size of the unit again depending on peak status). Either way it incentivizes a driver to get to the destination as fast as possible in order to pick up another fare. The difference is in the very high competency standard to become a London cab driver vs. low standard in NYC. * For lack of a better word The fare structures in NY and London are basically the same. There’s a drop charge ($2.50 in NY, not including night/peak surcharge; £2.20 in London, covering a variable amount of time/distance depending on peak status) and then a usage* charge ($0.40 per 1/5 mile or 60 seconds in stopped/slow traffic in NY; 20p per time/distance unit in London, with the size of the unit again depending on peak status). Either way it incentivizes a driver to get to the destination as fast as possible in order to pick up another fare. The difference is in the very high competency standard to become a London cab driver vs. low standard in NYC.

* For lack of a better word

]]> By: Fendergal http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108971 Fendergal Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:29:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108971 Dollars to donuts, both of these drivers were on the phone and not even fully aware of what they were doing. There needs to be enforcement of the laws already on the books, namely drivers' being on the phone. I've taken taxis on a semi-regular basis (taking my massage table to clients), and the vast majority of drivers I've ridden with are safe. Dollars to donuts, both of these drivers were on the phone and not even fully aware of what they were doing. There needs to be enforcement of the laws already on the books, namely drivers’ being on the phone. I’ve taken taxis on a semi-regular basis (taking my massage table to clients), and the vast majority of drivers I’ve ridden with are safe.

]]> By: PCO http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108931 PCO Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:15:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108931 It is much harder to become a cab driver in London. New York seems to view cab driving as a basic economic opportunity for immigrants. More stringent testing and training is typically resisted by driver groups. It's the opposite in London, where drivers are more of a guild. They must memorize over 300 routes and have a comprehensive "Knowledge" of London streets. This can take a year or more of study. As a result of this smaller, and more highly trained labor pool, London drivers can command higher fees and drive longer. More experienced drivers --- in New York and London --- are better drivers. It is much harder to become a cab driver in London. New York seems to view cab driving as a basic economic opportunity for immigrants. More stringent testing and training is typically resisted by driver groups. It’s the opposite in London, where drivers are more of a guild. They must memorize over 300 routes and have a comprehensive “Knowledge” of London streets. This can take a year or more of study. As a result of this smaller, and more highly trained labor pool, London drivers can command higher fees and drive longer. More experienced drivers — in New York and London — are better drivers.

]]> By: trish http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108891 trish Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108891 I saw it happen too! The cab was going fast right past me the next thing I see are the wheels up in the air UPSIDE DOWN! I have a killer photo...how can i post it? I saw it happen too! The cab was going fast right past me the next thing I see are the wheels up in the air UPSIDE DOWN!

I have a killer photo…how can i post it?

]]> By: jon http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108811 jon Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:34:59 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108811 on a related note, i saw this on the news tonight and am outraged... Drivers may get their speeding tickets thrown out http://www.katu.com/news/local/55533307.html the speed limit changed from 35 to 25 and people got caught speeding. now they are claiming that the speed limit that was posted was wrong and that all the speeding tickets should get thrown out. people are blaming the police saying they were "defrauded and entrapped", "traffic laws are BS," etc when in fact they disregarded the posted signs and chose to break the law and sped. katu news did an investigation to find fault with the police and defend the motorists law breaking. when you hear this, it is no surprise that the taxi flipped upside down while speeding or why the 2 NYC candidates are rabidly against anything that slows cars down or to share the road... it is entitled driver syndrome. traffic laws only apply to bikes and pedestrians but how dare a motorist get a ticket for driving 20 mph over the speed limit. on a related note, i saw this on the news tonight and am outraged…

Drivers may get their speeding tickets thrown out
http://www.katu.com/news/local/55533307.html

the speed limit changed from 35 to 25 and people got caught speeding. now they are claiming that the speed limit that was posted was wrong and that all the speeding tickets should get thrown out. people are blaming the police saying they were “defrauded and entrapped”, “traffic laws are BS,” etc when in fact they disregarded the posted signs and chose to break the law and sped. katu news did an investigation to find fault with the police and defend the motorists law breaking.

when you hear this, it is no surprise that the taxi flipped upside down while speeding or why the 2 NYC candidates are rabidly against anything that slows cars down or to share the road… it is entitled driver syndrome. traffic laws only apply to bikes and pedestrians but how dare a motorist get a ticket for driving 20 mph over the speed limit.

]]> By: Ian Dutton http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108791 Ian Dutton Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:34:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108791 I can hear the punchline already... all together now... "....and the driver was not charged." I can hear the punchline already… all together now…

“….and the driver was not charged.”

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108781 Cap'n Transit Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:54:22 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108781 <a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtml" rel="nofollow">NYC taxi fares</a> <a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/taxisandminicabs/taxis/taxifares/4870.aspx" rel="nofollow">London taxi fares</a> Maybe the different rates encourage different speeds? NYC taxi fares
London taxi fares

Maybe the different rates encourage different speeds?

]]> By: Marty Barfowitz http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108771 Marty Barfowitz Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:36:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108771 In London the taxis and drivers always seem to be super high quality (and insanely expensive). Maybe I answer my own question in parenthesis there but what is London doing differently than NYC to produce first-class taxi rides? In London the taxis and drivers always seem to be super high quality (and insanely expensive). Maybe I answer my own question in parenthesis there but what is London doing differently than NYC to produce first-class taxi rides?

]]> By: Matthew from Brooklyn http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108751 Matthew from Brooklyn Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:05:28 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108751 Matt H is right. The fare structure - the 'drop' for picking up a new fare, and the per-mile charge, plus an extra charge for every minute in slow traffic - combine to produce exactly the behavior that Michelle observes: hurrying up to wait. Speeding up to catch a red is a simple case of fare-maximizing - they can sometimes earn more by doing that, and 'sometimes' is a magic word in a marginally profitable business. The $2 'drop' (or is it more now?) at the beginning of the ride is plenty of incentive for the driver to get passengers where they want to go; the remainder should be a per-minute charge rather than a per-mile charge. That way they're guaranteed a night's wages as long they can find passengers. Improved Manhattan bus speeds would also go a long way to getting New Yorkers to kick the cab habit. Matt H is right. The fare structure – the ‘drop’ for picking up a new fare, and the per-mile charge, plus an extra charge for every minute in slow traffic – combine to produce exactly the behavior that Michelle observes: hurrying up to wait. Speeding up to catch a red is a simple case of fare-maximizing – they can sometimes earn more by doing that, and ‘sometimes’ is a magic word in a marginally profitable business. The $2 ‘drop’ (or is it more now?) at the beginning of the ride is plenty of incentive for the driver to get passengers where they want to go; the remainder should be a per-minute charge rather than a per-mile charge. That way they’re guaranteed a night’s wages as long they can find passengers.

Improved Manhattan bus speeds would also go a long way to getting New Yorkers to kick the cab habit.

]]> By: beng722 http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108701 beng722 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:01:11 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108701 i guess this seems a bit strident but i NEVER take a cab unless it is an emergency. If the street-blogger community as a whole simply refused to take cabs there would be change, the same kind of change we're witnessing in the city gov't's attitude towards bikes (so many wonderful new lanes) and public plazas. We have all sacrificed for so many great causes...why not make this sacrifice too? After all, if we're taking cabs when we're in a rush or when it feels convenient or when we have packages or when we're out on the town we are only encouraging this reckless behavior. take a bus, ride a bike, take the subway, walk. It may not seem like an immediate impact is happening but you are reducing your carbon footprint, you are not participating in traffic madness, etc. etc. etc. i guess this seems a bit strident but i NEVER take a cab unless it is an emergency. If the street-blogger community as a whole simply refused to take cabs there would be change, the same kind of change we’re witnessing in the city gov’t's attitude towards bikes (so many wonderful new lanes) and public plazas. We have all sacrificed for so many great causes…why not make this sacrifice too? After all, if we’re taking cabs when we’re in a rush or when it feels convenient or when we have packages or when we’re out on the town we are only encouraging this reckless behavior. take a bus, ride a bike, take the subway, walk. It may not seem like an immediate impact is happening but you are reducing your carbon footprint, you are not participating in traffic madness, etc. etc. etc.

]]> By: Michelle http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108681 Michelle Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:09:00 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108681 Matt H- Yours is the response I always hear to calls for cracking down on reckless cab drivers. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. These guys speed like maniacs to get to the next red light. They're not getting more fares by doing so. Am I missing something? Matt H-

Yours is the response I always hear to calls for cracking down on reckless cab drivers. I’m sorry, I just don’t buy it. These guys speed like maniacs to get to the next red light. They’re not getting more fares by doing so. Am I missing something?

]]> By: Bob http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108671 Bob Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:40:31 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108671 What Kaja said. What Kaja said.

]]> By: Matt H http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/27/eyes-on-the-street-how-did-this-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-108631 Matt H Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:45:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=37421#comment-108631 The fare structure incentivizes speeding. That's what needs to change. The fare structure incentivizes speeding. That’s what needs to change.

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