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	<title>Comments on: Report: Cops Can Measure Traffic Violations, If They Try</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107501</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107501</guid>
		<description>Forget about safety and saving lives.  Each of those hundreds of violations, especially the more flagrant violations such as running red lights, represents a missed opportunity for the NYPD to issue a ticket and collect some cash.  With the city&#039;s budget shrinking every day, the money that could be pulled in simply by enforcing the law could go a long way to making sure our police department doesn&#039;t have to suffer any more cutbacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget about safety and saving lives.  Each of those hundreds of violations, especially the more flagrant violations such as running red lights, represents a missed opportunity for the NYPD to issue a ticket and collect some cash.  With the city&#8217;s budget shrinking every day, the money that could be pulled in simply by enforcing the law could go a long way to making sure our police department doesn&#8217;t have to suffer any more cutbacks.</p>
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		<title>By: The Opoponax</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107491</link>
		<dc:creator>The Opoponax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107491</guid>
		<description>I drive around as part of my job, in addition to commuting by bike, and the number of violations and wacky &quot;what planet did you learn to drive on?&quot; B.S. in one short trip around the city is absolutely appalling.  And I&#039;m not just talking about your typical stuff like speeding and stopping in crosswalks.  

I&#039;ve had people pull around me (via a bike lane or empty parking spot) at a light in order to pass me in the intersection as soon as the light turns green.  I&#039;ve seen cars cross double yellow lines at intersections with traffic going both ways, again in order to pass just one car which was traveling at an ordinary speed.  

I have yet to EVER see a driver come to a complete stop at the stop sign at the corner of Eagle and McGuinness in Greenpoint.  Not a single car.  And I&#039;m at that intersection at least twice a day.  Which is especially funny since drivers seem to expect me to dismount my bike and do jumping jacks at every stop sign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I drive around as part of my job, in addition to commuting by bike, and the number of violations and wacky &#8220;what planet did you learn to drive on?&#8221; B.S. in one short trip around the city is absolutely appalling.  And I&#8217;m not just talking about your typical stuff like speeding and stopping in crosswalks.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had people pull around me (via a bike lane or empty parking spot) at a light in order to pass me in the intersection as soon as the light turns green.  I&#8217;ve seen cars cross double yellow lines at intersections with traffic going both ways, again in order to pass just one car which was traveling at an ordinary speed.  </p>
<p>I have yet to EVER see a driver come to a complete stop at the stop sign at the corner of Eagle and McGuinness in Greenpoint.  Not a single car.  And I&#8217;m at that intersection at least twice a day.  Which is especially funny since drivers seem to expect me to dismount my bike and do jumping jacks at every stop sign.</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107461</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107461</guid>
		<description>They need to put more and more moving violations on the handheld computers that Traffic Enforcement Agents use.

Last year Brian Kavanagh and Andrew Lanza got a law passed that enabled TEAs to use their handhelds to cite for &quot;blocking the box,&quot; and Dan Garodnick&#039;s got a bill in City Council that would do the same for idling.

I don&#039;t know if those were the first times the idea was used, but it needs to get a lot more use.  From what I gather from drivers, TEAs issue summonses very consistently, while, as the recent T.A. reports corroborate, regular cops don&#039;t.

And finally, an irresponsible thing to speculate, but I&#039;ll say it anyway:  I worry that the more TA comes out with reports like this, a greater sense of spite among NYPD people will grow (just look at Inspector Mullen&#039;s tone above), which could conceivably result in even worse enforcement, if temporarily.  Check out NYPD Rant--one of the biggest themes there is &quot;don&#039;t like us?  Then we won&#039;t do anything for you.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They need to put more and more moving violations on the handheld computers that Traffic Enforcement Agents use.</p>
<p>Last year Brian Kavanagh and Andrew Lanza got a law passed that enabled TEAs to use their handhelds to cite for &#8220;blocking the box,&#8221; and Dan Garodnick&#8217;s got a bill in City Council that would do the same for idling.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if those were the first times the idea was used, but it needs to get a lot more use.  From what I gather from drivers, TEAs issue summonses very consistently, while, as the recent T.A. reports corroborate, regular cops don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And finally, an irresponsible thing to speculate, but I&#8217;ll say it anyway:  I worry that the more TA comes out with reports like this, a greater sense of spite among NYPD people will grow (just look at Inspector Mullen&#8217;s tone above), which could conceivably result in even worse enforcement, if temporarily.  Check out NYPD Rant&#8211;one of the biggest themes there is &#8220;don&#8217;t like us?  Then we won&#8217;t do anything for you.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Barfowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107421</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Barfowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107421</guid>
		<description>If nothing else, I appreciate Buford&#039;s tightly knit and entertaining worldview on these matters. He&#039;s like the James Howard Kunstler of NYC government bureaucracy. 

So, let me see if I&#039;ve got this straight: 

Years after the US military dropped it, the NYPD is actually using a body count to measure traffic safety outcomes on NYC streets. In Iraq and Afghanistan the US military now measures the overall rate of &quot;violence&quot; as a way to determine success and failure. But here at home Ray Kelly is still boasting about his declining body counts. That&#039;s somewhat astounding. 

I&#039;d suggest the NYPD do something similar to the US military. In NYC the &quot;violence&quot; you want to measure would be things like horn honking, blocking the box, pedestrian and cyclist INJURIES, motor vehicle speeding, car crashes, trucks using illegal routes, double-parking. These are, clearly, the things that need to be accounted for in measuring the safety and successful management of our streets. 

Someone with access to the Commissioner needs to let Ray Kelly know how moronic he sounds in citing a body count as his primary measure of success in managing NYC streets and traffic. Or someone in the mayor&#039;s office just needs to take this entire street management portfolio away from the NYPD and let DOT add enforcement to its portfolio. As Buford notes, good luck with that. 

BTW: I suspect that one of the reasons why fatalities dropped in recent years is because of increasing traffic congestion. More traffic congestion means slower vehicle speeds. Slower speeds mean that people die less often when they are hit by cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nothing else, I appreciate Buford&#8217;s tightly knit and entertaining worldview on these matters. He&#8217;s like the James Howard Kunstler of NYC government bureaucracy. </p>
<p>So, let me see if I&#8217;ve got this straight: </p>
<p>Years after the US military dropped it, the NYPD is actually using a body count to measure traffic safety outcomes on NYC streets. In Iraq and Afghanistan the US military now measures the overall rate of &#8220;violence&#8221; as a way to determine success and failure. But here at home Ray Kelly is still boasting about his declining body counts. That&#8217;s somewhat astounding. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest the NYPD do something similar to the US military. In NYC the &#8220;violence&#8221; you want to measure would be things like horn honking, blocking the box, pedestrian and cyclist INJURIES, motor vehicle speeding, car crashes, trucks using illegal routes, double-parking. These are, clearly, the things that need to be accounted for in measuring the safety and successful management of our streets. </p>
<p>Someone with access to the Commissioner needs to let Ray Kelly know how moronic he sounds in citing a body count as his primary measure of success in managing NYC streets and traffic. Or someone in the mayor&#8217;s office just needs to take this entire street management portfolio away from the NYPD and let DOT add enforcement to its portfolio. As Buford notes, good luck with that. </p>
<p>BTW: I suspect that one of the reasons why fatalities dropped in recent years is because of increasing traffic congestion. More traffic congestion means slower vehicle speeds. Slower speeds mean that people die less often when they are hit by cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mearkle</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107391</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mearkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107391</guid>
		<description>There are definite correlations between crash frequency and GNP. People drive less during recessions, and there are some indications that they drive more carefully.

So, how much of that 15% decrease is a true, sustainable decrease, and how much will evaporate once the economy recovers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are definite correlations between crash frequency and GNP. People drive less during recessions, and there are some indications that they drive more carefully.</p>
<p>So, how much of that 15% decrease is a true, sustainable decrease, and how much will evaporate once the economy recovers?</p>
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		<title>By: MRB</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107311</link>
		<dc:creator>MRB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107311</guid>
		<description>I think it is unfair to assign blame to drivers for failure to yield. Pedestrians are not obeying any traffic laws either, jaywalking at well and walking out in front of cars regardless of traffic control status. In this type of environment, a driver cannot simply yield to pedestrians and expect to make progress in any reasonable amount of time.

Simply put, New York does not have a culture of compliance, and it affects EVERYONE, from drivers to pedestrians to NYPD. The city has a me-first, my-time-is-more-important-than-yours attitude that simply must change if we want to see serious drops in the pedestrian fatality rate. In my opinion, the amount of vigilance in enforcement that would be required by NYPD would make a significant impact on their ability to police &quot;real&quot; crime. Citing a driver who is attempting to make a left turn in midtown or pedestrian walking downtown streets is unlikely to be met with popular support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is unfair to assign blame to drivers for failure to yield. Pedestrians are not obeying any traffic laws either, jaywalking at well and walking out in front of cars regardless of traffic control status. In this type of environment, a driver cannot simply yield to pedestrians and expect to make progress in any reasonable amount of time.</p>
<p>Simply put, New York does not have a culture of compliance, and it affects EVERYONE, from drivers to pedestrians to NYPD. The city has a me-first, my-time-is-more-important-than-yours attitude that simply must change if we want to see serious drops in the pedestrian fatality rate. In my opinion, the amount of vigilance in enforcement that would be required by NYPD would make a significant impact on their ability to police &#8220;real&#8221; crime. Citing a driver who is attempting to make a left turn in midtown or pedestrian walking downtown streets is unlikely to be met with popular support.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Berkman</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107241</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Berkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107241</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with everything Buford says but I totally agree that Giuliani and Bloomberg have similiar attitudes about NYPD: If crime stays down, do whatever you want.  Obviously, Giuliani combined this with being a huge jerk but the overarching theory remains the same.  Now add the NYPD&#039;s role in anti-terror work and it&#039;s easy to see how the NYPD became politically untouchable.  

As if I couldn&#039;t possibly imagine that the NYPD was more out of touch with the livable streets agenda, today I saw the a squad car &quot;patrolling&quot; the Brooklyn Heights Promenade. I cannot think of a place that is less suited to cars than that kind of pedestrian space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with everything Buford says but I totally agree that Giuliani and Bloomberg have similiar attitudes about NYPD: If crime stays down, do whatever you want.  Obviously, Giuliani combined this with being a huge jerk but the overarching theory remains the same.  Now add the NYPD&#8217;s role in anti-terror work and it&#8217;s easy to see how the NYPD became politically untouchable.  </p>
<p>As if I couldn&#8217;t possibly imagine that the NYPD was more out of touch with the livable streets agenda, today I saw the a squad car &#8220;patrolling&#8221; the Brooklyn Heights Promenade. I cannot think of a place that is less suited to cars than that kind of pedestrian space.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Irvine</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107231</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Irvine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107231</guid>
		<description>I think I saved a guys life today.  He&#039;s watching the white &quot;go&quot; pedestrian signal at 34th and Ninth this morning while a traffic cop is waving a bus through the red light straight at him.

If I didn&#039;t yell, he could have been run over.

Those signal police do this all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I saved a guys life today.  He&#8217;s watching the white &#8220;go&#8221; pedestrian signal at 34th and Ninth this morning while a traffic cop is waving a bus through the red light straight at him.</p>
<p>If I didn&#8217;t yell, he could have been run over.</p>
<p>Those signal police do this all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: buford puser</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107191</link>
		<dc:creator>buford puser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107191</guid>
		<description>As I have posted over &amp; over on this site, all comments of this type are based on several false premises. Among them:
a) The NYPD is not a mayoral agency, whatever the organizational charts say. Mike can&#039;t give Ray an order. The deal between Ray and Mayor Mike is: don&#039;t run for mayor until I (MM) am term-limited out (whenever he runs out of $, apparently) &amp; you can do whatever you want with the PD, as long as crime stays down.
b) The NYPD does not give two shits about traffic or traffic deaths &amp; won&#039;t until there is a police commissioner who can be held accountable by a mayor who thinks traffic deaths matter. Mike may ride the subway for PR value, but his values are 100% Upper East Side chauffeur-driven, despite his support for Sadik-Khan. 
c) The NYPD&#039;s job is to arrest minority teenagers for smoking weed. This serves both to pay many policemen&#039;s suburban mortgages and orthodonture bills through the overtime revenue generated, and to provide something to trot out at community meetings in poor communities when residents complain of the PD&#039;s ineffectual response to serious crime in their neighborhoods.
While ticketing dangerous motorists might have infinitely greater public-safety payoffs than having each narcotics squad in each precinct on each shift arrest 8 teenagers every day, since traffic offenses are mostly summonsable &amp; not arrestable, how would such enforcement generate adequate overtime payments for police? This displays the final faulty premise of this critique: the idea that the NYPD is run for public benefit, rather than for the financial &amp; political benefit of upper PD management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have posted over &amp; over on this site, all comments of this type are based on several false premises. Among them:<br />
a) The NYPD is not a mayoral agency, whatever the organizational charts say. Mike can&#8217;t give Ray an order. The deal between Ray and Mayor Mike is: don&#8217;t run for mayor until I (MM) am term-limited out (whenever he runs out of $, apparently) &amp; you can do whatever you want with the PD, as long as crime stays down.<br />
b) The NYPD does not give two shits about traffic or traffic deaths &amp; won&#8217;t until there is a police commissioner who can be held accountable by a mayor who thinks traffic deaths matter. Mike may ride the subway for PR value, but his values are 100% Upper East Side chauffeur-driven, despite his support for Sadik-Khan.<br />
c) The NYPD&#8217;s job is to arrest minority teenagers for smoking weed. This serves both to pay many policemen&#8217;s suburban mortgages and orthodonture bills through the overtime revenue generated, and to provide something to trot out at community meetings in poor communities when residents complain of the PD&#8217;s ineffectual response to serious crime in their neighborhoods.<br />
While ticketing dangerous motorists might have infinitely greater public-safety payoffs than having each narcotics squad in each precinct on each shift arrest 8 teenagers every day, since traffic offenses are mostly summonsable &amp; not arrestable, how would such enforcement generate adequate overtime payments for police? This displays the final faulty premise of this critique: the idea that the NYPD is run for public benefit, rather than for the financial &amp; political benefit of upper PD management.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107131</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107131</guid>
		<description>The fundamental implication of this report is that street safety cannot be measured by the number of injuries and deaths alone. It is obvious that the chaos on city streets deters huge numbers of New Yorkers from considering bicycling, and sometimes even walking. How many people would ride everyday if dangerous driving was corralled? How many more people would ride with their kids to school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fundamental implication of this report is that street safety cannot be measured by the number of injuries and deaths alone. It is obvious that the chaos on city streets deters huge numbers of New Yorkers from considering bicycling, and sometimes even walking. How many people would ride everyday if dangerous driving was corralled? How many more people would ride with their kids to school?</p>
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		<title>By: glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/08/25/report-cops-can-measure-traffic-violations-if-they-try/comment-page-1/#comment-107111</link>
		<dc:creator>glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=35331#comment-107111</guid>
		<description>If the NYPD can&#039;t focus on this issue, I propose that they drop &quot;public safety&quot; from their mission and we have a new agency to focus on public safety issues. No guns, just to authority to issue tickets and summons to appear in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the NYPD can&#8217;t focus on this issue, I propose that they drop &#8220;public safety&#8221; from their mission and we have a new agency to focus on public safety issues. No guns, just to authority to issue tickets and summons to appear in court.</p>
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