Comments on: How Can We Make Bike Commuting “Normal”? http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:32:54 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Blair http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-123151 Blair Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:40:52 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-123151 Rhywun must be out of shape if he/she thinks commuting by bike means becoming sweaty and needing to take a shower after. I ride to work every day (four miles) and bike riding has never made me sweaty. Of course many Americans are TERRIFIED of a little sweat and have to quickly wash it away as if it's an alien bacteria invader on their skin. Rhywun must be out of shape if he/she thinks commuting by bike means becoming sweaty and needing to take a shower after. I ride to work every day (four miles) and bike riding has never made me sweaty. Of course many Americans are TERRIFIED of a little sweat and have to quickly wash it away as if it's an alien bacteria invader on their skin.

]]> By: gecko http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-68466 gecko Thu, 21 May 2009 12:04:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-68466 In many instances, the time taken to get to and or wait for buses and trains is as long or longer than going to the final destination than by bicycle and even walking; especially, during off-peak hours and at low-use locations. Perhaps a much more suitable name for conventional mass transit would be big vehicle rapid transit (BVRT) or expensive big vehicle rapid transit (EBVRT) and for bicycle travel and public bicycle systems would be bicycle rapid transit or BRT. In many instances, the time taken to get to and or wait for buses and trains is as long or longer than going to the final destination than by bicycle and even walking; especially, during off-peak hours and at low-use locations.

Perhaps a much more suitable name for conventional mass transit would be big vehicle rapid transit (BVRT) or expensive big vehicle rapid transit (EBVRT) and for bicycle travel and public bicycle systems would be bicycle rapid transit or BRT.

]]> By: Ryan Rzepecki http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-68451 Ryan Rzepecki Thu, 21 May 2009 01:24:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-68451 It's a problem of perception, and something I've been trying to address. 1. Bike Commuting is not a sport and you don't need to dress as if it were. http://ibikenyc.com/2009/03/29/bike-commuting-is-not-a-sport/ 2. Most people don't need a separate wardrobe to bike to work, let alone showers at the office. http://ibikenyc.com/2009/04/17/bike-fashion-is-just-fashion-on-a-bike…/ 3. A short bike commute on relatively flat terrain will probably not make you sweat. http://ibikenyc.com/2009/05/02/bike-commuting-no-sweat/ 4. Biking in a city like New York is actually safer than in more car dependent cities. Its not true that biking here is only for the young and reckless. http://ibikenyc.com/2009/04/06/believe-it-or-not/ 5. Finally, people need to realize that anyone can bike in New York. I took my 70 year old grandmother for a 23 mile bike ride when she came to visit. She loved it. Watch the video... http://ibikenyc.com/2009/05/14/i-bike-ny-family-edition/ It's a problem of perception, and something I've been trying to address.

1. Bike Commuting is not a sport and you don't need to dress as if it were.
http://ibikenyc.com/2009/03/29/bike-commuting-is-not-a-sport/

2. Most people don't need a separate wardrobe to bike to work, let alone showers at the office.
http://ibikenyc.com/2009/04/17/bike-fashion-is-just-fashion-on-a-bike…/

3. A short bike commute on relatively flat terrain will probably not make you sweat.
http://ibikenyc.com/2009/05/02/bike-commuting-no-sweat/

4. Biking in a city like New York is actually safer than in more car dependent cities. Its not true that biking here is only for the young and reckless.
http://ibikenyc.com/2009/04/06/believe-it-or-not/

5. Finally, people need to realize that anyone can bike in New York. I took my 70 year old grandmother for a 23 mile bike ride when she came to visit. She loved it. Watch the video...
http://ibikenyc.com/2009/05/14/i-bike-ny-family-edition/

]]> By: Sylvia http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-68294 Sylvia Tue, 19 May 2009 23:48:21 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-68294 @ Chris I agree entirely that restricting driving would be the most effective route. However, just to clarify, you're not actually against cycle tracks, but against laws prohibiting cyclists from riding on the street? Because I'm surprised at some of your reasonings against cycle tracks. Having commuted by bicycle extensively in both Germany and the US I find: 1) Cycle tracks are faster because I don't need to slow down and swerve when cars pull in front of me, into the bike lane or make right handed turns 2) Passing slower cyclists is much more difficult on roads shared with cars because I have to move into the car stream of traffic after signalling and checking over my shoulder, etc. 3) Cycle tracks are often completely separated from traffic (i.e. my old commute in Munich was along a river with paths under all of the bridges) so that for a large chunk of my commute, I didn't have to stop *at all*. It's hard to get faster than that. Anyone else who has had a lot of experience cycling on both cycle tracks in Europe as well as vehicular cycling in the US that would like to chime in? I wouldn't want to lose current cyclists so I think having the choice is important... but to have a choice, we cyclists have to stop working against *more* options by speaking out against cycle tracks. I really believe this issue is the largest one in making bicycling "normal". @ Chris

I agree entirely that restricting driving would be the most effective route.

However, just to clarify, you're not actually against cycle tracks, but against laws prohibiting cyclists from riding on the street?

Because I'm surprised at some of your reasonings against cycle tracks. Having commuted by bicycle extensively in both Germany and the US I find:

1) Cycle tracks are faster because I don't need to slow down and swerve when cars pull in front of me, into the bike lane or make right handed turns
2) Passing slower cyclists is much more difficult on roads shared with cars because I have to move into the car stream of traffic after signalling and checking over my shoulder, etc.
3) Cycle tracks are often completely separated from traffic (i.e. my old commute in Munich was along a river with paths under all of the bridges) so that for a large chunk of my commute, I didn't have to stop *at all*. It's hard to get faster than that.

Anyone else who has had a lot of experience cycling on both cycle tracks in Europe as well as vehicular cycling in the US that would like to chime in? I wouldn't want to lose current cyclists so I think having the choice is important... but to have a choice, we cyclists have to stop working against *more* options by speaking out against cycle tracks.

I really believe this issue is the largest one in making bicycling "normal".

]]> By: chris http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-68194 chris Mon, 18 May 2009 20:33:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-68194 As a person who doesn't even own a car and who cycles everywhere, I'm completely opposed to the construction of European-style cycle tracks here. Where they are built, they are generally followed by laws prohibiting cyclists from riding on the street, meaning that cyclists *lose* space that was previously available to them. When cyclists are corralled onto these things, they lose their ability to do vehicular left turns while being forced to do pedestrians left turns. Passing clearance is much tighter, which makes it difficult to pass slower cyclists who are riding two-abreast. You are more exposed to right hooks, which is a far more frequent accident than being struck from behind. Being confined to these would increase trip time, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do if you want to encourage more people to bike. Those who support these things are in favor of punishing people who actually do cycle RIGHT NOW for the benefit of people who don't yet cycle, and who may or may not cycle should such cycle tracks be created. Also, there is evidence that the construction of such tracks does not *cause* high ridership, but are rather built after high-ridership already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_cycle_facilities#Segregated_cycle_facilities_and_transportation_cycling Measures that restrict driving, making it more expensive and inconvenient, will make more people likely to bike. Such measures are not likely to get any politician elected here. That said, I do understand that most people would prefer not to cycle under high-traffic conditions. In Portland, where I live, such people generally ride on bike boulevards, which are traffic calmed thoroughfares -- they share space with motorists, but there are very many of the latter. I'm okay with this form of bicycle infrastructure. Also, I also think that the suburbs could stand to create more connectivity between their side streets so that people can get around without using the main streets if they prefer not to. As a person who doesn't even own a car and who cycles everywhere, I'm completely opposed to the construction of European-style cycle tracks here. Where they are built, they are generally followed by laws prohibiting cyclists from riding on the street, meaning that cyclists *lose* space that was previously available to them. When cyclists are corralled onto these things, they lose their ability to do vehicular left turns while being forced to do pedestrians left turns. Passing clearance is much tighter, which makes it difficult to pass slower cyclists who are riding two-abreast. You are more exposed to right hooks, which is a far more frequent accident than being struck from behind. Being confined to these would increase trip time, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do if you want to encourage more people to bike. Those who support these things are in favor of punishing people who actually do cycle RIGHT NOW for the benefit of people who don't yet cycle, and who may or may not cycle should such cycle tracks be created.

Also, there is evidence that the construction of such tracks does not *cause* high ridership, but are rather built after high-ridership already exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_cycle_facilities#Segregated_cycle_facilities_and_transportation_cycling

Measures that restrict driving, making it more expensive and inconvenient, will make more people likely to bike. Such measures are not likely to get any politician elected here.

That said, I do understand that most people would prefer not to cycle under high-traffic conditions. In Portland, where I live, such people generally ride on bike boulevards, which are traffic calmed thoroughfares -- they share space with motorists, but there are very many of the latter. I'm okay with this form of bicycle infrastructure. Also, I also think that the suburbs could stand to create more connectivity between their side streets so that people can get around without using the main streets if they prefer not to.

]]> By: DLB http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67912 DLB Thu, 14 May 2009 02:49:38 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67912 As easy as it is, bicycle commuting still isn't perceived as normal- I'm over 50, cycle in skirt and plain shirt. I change just the top at work and wash down on hot days. Colleagues still think it's "taking life in your own hands" to commute on the streets. I don't think it is, especially if you relax and go easy- it's commuting, not cycling for speed. I use an old hybrid bike- it's heavy, I added basket (good for shopping at Union Square market)and I'm not afraid of locking it outside. Definitely more fun than the subway. As easy as it is, bicycle commuting still isn't perceived as normal- I'm over 50, cycle in skirt and plain shirt. I change just the top at work and wash down on hot days. Colleagues still think it's "taking life in your own hands" to commute on the streets. I don't think it is, especially if you relax and go easy- it's commuting, not cycling for speed.
I use an old hybrid bike- it's heavy, I added basket (good for shopping at Union Square market)and I'm not afraid of locking it outside.
Definitely more fun than the subway.

]]> By: Don Arambula http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67904 Don Arambula Thu, 14 May 2009 00:18:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67904 Sarah's suggestions are all great but are marginally effective in establishing cycling as a "normal" mode. Here where I cycle in Portland, OR approximately 7% of transportation trips are made by cyclists. Not bad for U.S.cities but nothing compared to the 35-40% bicycle mode share of Dutch or Danish cities. To reach "normal" Danish or Dutch mode splits we must address the real problems- safety and land use and offer meaningful strategies to increase ridership. What are the safety strategies? First recognize that the greatest deterrent to cycling is the fear of riding in roadways. While the "strong and the fearless" most of us who wear lycra, are young and athletic will ride about anywhere, the majority of the "normal" riders- children, seniors and others are simply not going to ride in dangerous situations. These people which our transportation department describes as "willing but concerned" number at about 60% of our city's population! We simply must do what we can attract these riders. How? By replicating Copenhagen where in the 1970's it was auto choked but is now considered one the greatest cycling cities in the world. They constructed protected bikeways or what are unfortunately known as cycle tracks here in the U.S. As a result, their cycling trips have skyrocketed. Second we must recognize that for cycling to be a "normal" transportation mode, our cities must be designed so that a bicycle can be use for a majority of the 10 transportation trips made by a typical American household daily, not just commuting . To do this, we must redesign the land use patterns of cities as collection of balanced centers where cycling trips to the grocery store, school, church or the doctor are not 6 or seven miles away but no more than 1 mile. Until we we do this bandaid soultions such as showers at work are helpful but do not meaningfully move us toward "normalcy". Sarah's suggestions are all great but are marginally effective in establishing cycling as a "normal" mode. Here where I cycle in Portland, OR approximately 7% of transportation trips are made by cyclists. Not bad for U.S.cities but nothing compared to the 35-40% bicycle mode share of Dutch or Danish cities. To reach "normal" Danish or Dutch mode splits we must address the real problems- safety and land use and offer meaningful strategies to increase ridership. What are the safety strategies? First recognize that the greatest deterrent to cycling is the fear of riding in roadways. While the "strong and the fearless" most of us who wear lycra, are young and athletic will ride about anywhere, the majority of the "normal" riders- children, seniors and others are simply not going to ride in dangerous situations. These people which our transportation department describes as "willing but concerned" number at about 60% of our city's population! We simply must do what we can attract these riders. How? By replicating Copenhagen where in the 1970's it was auto choked but is now considered one the greatest cycling cities in the world. They constructed protected bikeways or what are unfortunately known as cycle tracks here in the U.S. As a result, their cycling trips have skyrocketed. Second we must recognize that for cycling to be a "normal" transportation mode, our cities must be designed so that a bicycle can be use for a majority of the 10 transportation trips made by a typical American household daily, not just commuting . To do this, we must redesign the land use patterns of cities as collection of balanced centers where cycling trips to the grocery store, school, church or the doctor are not 6 or seven miles away but no more than 1 mile. Until we we do this bandaid soultions such as showers at work are helpful but do not meaningfully move us toward "normalcy".

]]> By: цarьchitect http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67900 цarьchitect Wed, 13 May 2009 22:06:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67900 When I mention using a bike to get to work, the response is, "I'd like to do that to, but I can't shower," followed by "It's gotta be unsafe. Think about that cyclist who just died..." The normalcy of biking still depends a lot on the number of people who perceive it as safe and reliable. Cycle gear and culture might seem weird, but even if it seemed normal, if it doesn't look like it's something you want to do in spandex and a helmet either, it's going to scare away a lot of people. If there isn't dedicated infrastructure, the average person will feel compelled to compete with cars, be afraid of being overtaken, and generally not enjoy their commutes. Bicyclists do not have the luxury of auto bubbles or train freedom, so unless they feel free - and encouraged - to go at their own pace, it's still going to be a fringe activity. Getting people to bike in the first place will encourage governments, but it just seems like there are many people who are simply afraid to try without a bike lane. When I mention using a bike to get to work, the response is, "I'd like to do that to, but I can't shower," followed by "It's gotta be unsafe. Think about that cyclist who just died..."

The normalcy of biking still depends a lot on the number of people who perceive it as safe and reliable. Cycle gear and culture might seem weird, but even if it seemed normal, if it doesn't look like it's something you want to do in spandex and a helmet either, it's going to scare away a lot of people.

If there isn't dedicated infrastructure, the average person will feel compelled to compete with cars, be afraid of being overtaken, and generally not enjoy their commutes. Bicyclists do not have the luxury of auto bubbles or train freedom, so unless they feel free - and encouraged - to go at their own pace, it's still going to be a fringe activity.

Getting people to bike in the first place will encourage governments, but it just seems like there are many people who are simply afraid to try without a bike lane.

]]> By: Danny G http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67897 Danny G Wed, 13 May 2009 20:58:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67897 Less spandex, more old school kicks. Less spandex, more old school kicks.

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67896 Rhywun Wed, 13 May 2009 20:20:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67896 <i>I think lots of American drivers don't know how to handle bicycle riders.</i> Lots don't know how to handle pedestrians, either. I just saw a women knocked down on Broadway near Trinity Church. Fortunately she appeared unharmed, standing up, etc., which is amazing considering the sound it made (it happened behind my back). I think lots of American drivers don't know how to handle bicycle riders.

Lots don't know how to handle pedestrians, either. I just saw a women knocked down on Broadway near Trinity Church. Fortunately she appeared unharmed, standing up, etc., which is amazing considering the sound it made (it happened behind my back).

]]> By: JSD http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67894 JSD Wed, 13 May 2009 20:06:45 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67894 Gyms would make a tidy little profit if they charged a small monthly fee for those interested in only using the shower facilities. If you're commuting by bike anywhere near lower Manhattan, there's a gym on every other corner. Gyms would make a tidy little profit if they charged a small monthly fee for those interested in only using the shower facilities. If you're commuting by bike anywhere near lower Manhattan, there's a gym on every other corner.

]]> By: NIBBLER http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67893 NIBBLER Wed, 13 May 2009 19:58:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67893 I'm in StinkyBiker's camp. Suit/Tie + 11 miles one way + no shower = Sweaty Disgusting Mess. My compromise: I take the subway with a folding bike in the morning, but change and commute back home on the bike. It's not a perfect solution, but at least I get to ride without worrying about being disgusting at work. If there was a gym that would offer a discounted "shower" membership around work, I would bike commute much more often. I'm in StinkyBiker's camp. Suit/Tie + 11 miles one way + no shower = Sweaty Disgusting Mess.

My compromise: I take the subway with a folding bike in the morning, but change and commute back home on the bike. It's not a perfect solution, but at least I get to ride without worrying about being disgusting at work.

If there was a gym that would offer a discounted "shower" membership around work, I would bike commute much more often.

]]> By: Edwin http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67892 Edwin Wed, 13 May 2009 19:38:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67892 Ha! the puns abound. In addition to all the great bike lanes and efforts from the city to make cycling more accessible here I wish they'd start educating drivers better. I think lots of American drivers don't know how to handle bicycle riders. Making them aware our safety needs would create a better understanding of cyclists. Maybe this mutual understanding would even generate some good will on cyclists behalf towards motorists therefore reducing the "battle" between peds/cyclists and cars. Also, and this is a given, drivers need to be held accountable for their actions. duh. Ha! the puns abound.
In addition to all the great bike lanes and efforts from the city to make cycling more accessible here I wish they'd start educating drivers better. I think lots of American drivers don't know how to handle bicycle riders. Making them aware our safety needs would create a better understanding of cyclists. Maybe this mutual understanding would even generate some good will on cyclists behalf towards motorists therefore reducing the "battle" between peds/cyclists and cars. Also, and this is a given, drivers need to be held accountable for their actions. duh.

]]> By: bc http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67889 bc Wed, 13 May 2009 19:18:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67889 I loved that bikesnob too, but competition is a 2 way street (or something like that that doesn't sound like a pun)..you don't have to engage. guy or girl blows by you? doesn't impact your commute unless you choose to chase him/her I loved that bikesnob too, but competition is a 2 way street (or something like that that doesn't sound like a pun)..you don't have to engage. guy or girl blows by you? doesn't impact your commute unless you choose to chase him/her

]]> By: Erik Sandblom http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67888 Erik Sandblom Wed, 13 May 2009 19:13:19 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67888 A good way to sweat less is to not use a backpack. Use a bike pannier or a basket to put your things in instead. A good way to sweat less is to not use a backpack. Use a bike pannier or a basket to put your things in instead.

]]> By: Edwin http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67887 Edwin Wed, 13 May 2009 18:56:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67887 James wrote "only a fool would undertake a hilly bike commute on a Dutch cruiser wearing a suit and tie. As distance increases and terrain gets tougher, the need for a high performance bike and lycra goes up." I think you're mistaken about this one. I just visited Aarhus in Denmark which is basically one steep hill after another and still saw a huge percentage cycling around, fashionably. Cyclists in NYC seem waaaay too competetive, and petty competetions as well. I guess it's our American nature. I loved this bikesnob post. take a look. http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009/05/indignity-of-commuting-by-bicycle_12.html James wrote "only a fool would undertake a hilly bike commute on a Dutch cruiser wearing a suit and tie. As distance increases and terrain gets tougher, the need for a high performance bike and lycra goes up."

I think you're mistaken about this one. I just visited Aarhus in Denmark which is basically one steep hill after another and still saw a huge percentage cycling around, fashionably.

Cyclists in NYC seem waaaay too competetive, and petty competetions as well. I guess it's our American nature. I loved this bikesnob post. take a look.
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009/05/indignity-of-commuting-by-bicycle_12.html

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67885 Rhywun Wed, 13 May 2009 18:29:00 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67885 <i>Slow down, keep it at a strolling pace, and you won't need a shower when you arrive at work.</i> I can pick up lunch from work in ten minutes. Strolling from home to work would take about two hours each way--an amount of time I am not willing to give up. Also, having strolled home after the last blackout, I can assure you that I would require a shower at the end. Slow down, keep it at a strolling pace, and you won't need a shower when you arrive at work.

I can pick up lunch from work in ten minutes. Strolling from home to work would take about two hours each way--an amount of time I am not willing to give up. Also, having strolled home after the last blackout, I can assure you that I would require a shower at the end.

]]> By: Carice http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67883 Carice Wed, 13 May 2009 18:08:09 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67883 If you do a "european" style commute you really shouldn't have to change or take a shower, which are big barriers to commuting. However in many/ most parts of the country you don't have the density of European cities that supports that laid back style of commuting. Having commuted in rural Missouri, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Boston, I am afraid that the accumulated barriers (hygene, safety, convenience, storage, etc.) will prevent bicycle commuting from becoming "normal" in too many parts of the country unless communities change their planning and transportation infrastructure dramatically. If you do a "european" style commute you really shouldn't have to change or take a shower, which are big barriers to commuting. However in many/ most parts of the country you don't have the density of European cities that supports that laid back style of commuting.
Having commuted in rural Missouri, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Boston, I am afraid that the accumulated barriers (hygene, safety, convenience, storage, etc.) will prevent bicycle commuting from becoming "normal" in too many parts of the country unless communities change their planning and transportation infrastructure dramatically.

]]> By: bc http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67882 bc Wed, 13 May 2009 18:04:25 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67882 Doug, I appreciate your measured and thoughtful response, I didn't mean to start a big fight as often happens, and I'm thankful you took it in the right spirit. As far as spandex reduction, I don't see why we are hating on the people who are doing it in order to attract those that aren't. At least "those clothes" serve a purpose (largely moisture wicking, aiding in arriving to work without being too offensive) and while I personally don't wear bike clothes when not racing, I find it disdainful to say that those who do are doing anything wrong in any way. And again, I say this is a silly distraction to a serious topic. If you can't see the 10000 positives attached to biking to work and can only focus on a few inconveniences, then you're not going to do it that many days regardless. Doug, I appreciate your measured and thoughtful response, I didn't mean to start a big fight as often happens, and I'm thankful you took it in the right spirit.

As far as spandex reduction, I don't see why we are hating on the people who are doing it in order to attract those that aren't. At least "those clothes" serve a purpose (largely moisture wicking, aiding in arriving to work without being too offensive) and while I personally don't wear bike clothes when not racing, I find it disdainful to say that those who do are doing anything wrong in any way.

And again, I say this is a silly distraction to a serious topic. If you can't see the 10000 positives attached to biking to work and can only focus on a few inconveniences, then you're not going to do it that many days regardless.

]]> By: Charley http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/13/how-can-we-make-bike-commuting-normal/comment-page-1/#comment-67881 Charley Wed, 13 May 2009 17:52:29 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6123#comment-67881 Totally agree with Doug. We need the trifecta of safe storage, showers, and spandex reduction to make bikes more "normal". Shorter bike rides are completely doable without getting sweaty. I did it all the time in college. However, in NYC, most of us don't have a non-sweaty commute available to us. It's "normal" enough for someone to come to work early every so often and get in an hour at the gym. These people usually shower afterwards. A mid range distance should eventually be seen as normal as a morning workout (with the added bonus of combining your commute and workout time). My commute is 9 miles one way. I bike further than that all the time when I'm in an exploratory mood, but it's too far for business casual. Totally agree with Doug. We need the trifecta of safe storage, showers, and spandex reduction to make bikes more "normal".

Shorter bike rides are completely doable without getting sweaty. I did it all the time in college. However, in NYC, most of us don't have a non-sweaty commute available to us.

It's "normal" enough for someone to come to work early every so often and get in an hour at the gym. These people usually shower afterwards. A mid range distance should eventually be seen as normal as a morning workout (with the added bonus of combining your commute and workout time).

My commute is 9 miles one way. I bike further than that all the time when I'm in an exploratory mood, but it's too far for business casual.

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