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	<title>Comments on: We Can&#8217;t Go on Living Like This</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Jordan Hare</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Hare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 13:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67702</guid>
		<description>There needs to be large-scale ad campaign that advocates for the creation of a funding mechanism that&#039;s kept independent of the political cycle. 

Something along the lines of &quot;you wouldn&#039;t change your mind on whether to defend america every year; you&#039;d only quibble over the direction. So why are we always changing our mind on how to make this city work?&quot; Obviously I don&#039;t work in advertising, but you get the idea.

If we can get people to think about transportation spending in the same way they think about 15 year defense contracts (i.e. long term strategic value, and a shared agreement to decouple the political cycle from the value of a given project) then there is a way forward. Without doing this the transportation lobby will be stuck in sniping mode - always reacting to *this* project or *that* initiative. 

The nature of the debate has to change. Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There needs to be large-scale ad campaign that advocates for the creation of a funding mechanism that&#8217;s kept independent of the political cycle. </p>
<p>Something along the lines of &#8220;you wouldn&#8217;t change your mind on whether to defend america every year; you&#8217;d only quibble over the direction. So why are we always changing our mind on how to make this city work?&#8221; Obviously I don&#8217;t work in advertising, but you get the idea.</p>
<p>If we can get people to think about transportation spending in the same way they think about 15 year defense contracts (i.e. long term strategic value, and a shared agreement to decouple the political cycle from the value of a given project) then there is a way forward. Without doing this the transportation lobby will be stuck in sniping mode &#8211; always reacting to *this* project or *that* initiative. </p>
<p>The nature of the debate has to change. Right?</p>
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		<title>By: dbs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67527</link>
		<dc:creator>dbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 01:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67527</guid>
		<description>Speaking of learning from the Soviets, Dmitry Orlov always has something interesting to say, like here: 
&quot;An American&#039;s two greatest enemies are his house and his car. But try telling that to most Americans, and you will get ridicule, consternation, and disbelief.&quot;
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/01/perestroika-20-beta.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of learning from the Soviets, Dmitry Orlov always has something interesting to say, like here:<br />
&#8220;An American&#8217;s two greatest enemies are his house and his car. But try telling that to most Americans, and you will get ridicule, consternation, and disbelief.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/01/perestroika-20-beta.html" rel="nofollow">http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/01/perestroika-20-beta.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67526</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 01:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67526</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s clear that Albany continues to be very corrupt.  One difficulty with an electoral approach is that nobody in &quot;the community&quot; wants to piss off the incumbent by backing a challenger.  They could probably put up with the frosty looks at the Lions Club meetings, but they can&#039;t run the risk of getting their &quot;member items&quot; cut off.

In response to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/14/help-wanted-legislators-needed-to-fix-broken-capital/#comment-48384&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a discussion&lt;/a&gt; we had last year on this topic, I came up with &lt;a href=&quot;http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/04/poisoning-well.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a proposal&lt;/a&gt; for someone with a little money to spend on this.  The total member items for most legislators actually comes out to a relatively small amount - under $200,000.  Just pick a member, commit to donating as much or more for the next five years (say), and watch their power dwindle!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s clear that Albany continues to be very corrupt.  One difficulty with an electoral approach is that nobody in &#8220;the community&#8221; wants to piss off the incumbent by backing a challenger.  They could probably put up with the frosty looks at the Lions Club meetings, but they can&#8217;t run the risk of getting their &#8220;member items&#8221; cut off.</p>
<p>In response to <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/14/help-wanted-legislators-needed-to-fix-broken-capital/#comment-48384" rel="nofollow">a discussion</a> we had last year on this topic, I came up with <a href="http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/04/poisoning-well.html" rel="nofollow">a proposal</a> for someone with a little money to spend on this.  The total member items for most legislators actually comes out to a relatively small amount &#8211; under $200,000.  Just pick a member, commit to donating as much or more for the next five years (say), and watch their power dwindle!</p>
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		<title>By: Respect the Past</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67517</link>
		<dc:creator>Respect the Past</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 19:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67517</guid>
		<description>What about developing a transit approval score for local politicians, such as the environmental score the National League of Conservation Voters has for national politicians?  

I&#039;m really care about transit policy, so I spend time researching politician’s views and voting record regarding mass transit.  Yet, I don&#039;t think that most people, even those who care about transit, spend as much time as I do researching political candidate&#039;s transit credentials.  Therefore, we need an easy rating system, which could help solidify support for pro-transit politicians.  Maybe state politicians will start to care when they realize they are flunking with an important constituency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about developing a transit approval score for local politicians, such as the environmental score the National League of Conservation Voters has for national politicians?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really care about transit policy, so I spend time researching politician’s views and voting record regarding mass transit.  Yet, I don&#8217;t think that most people, even those who care about transit, spend as much time as I do researching political candidate&#8217;s transit credentials.  Therefore, we need an easy rating system, which could help solidify support for pro-transit politicians.  Maybe state politicians will start to care when they realize they are flunking with an important constituency.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Mork</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67516</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Mork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 19:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67516</guid>
		<description>So, Monday June 1 is &quot;Drive to Work&quot; day, right?

Can I borrow a car from someone?  (I&#039;d take a Zipcar, but I can&#039;t afford the 18.75% tax!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Monday June 1 is &#8220;Drive to Work&#8221; day, right?</p>
<p>Can I borrow a car from someone?  (I&#8217;d take a Zipcar, but I can&#8217;t afford the 18.75% tax!)</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67515</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67515</guid>
		<description>It may be more nebulous, but might I suggest that the &quot;electoral project&quot; be expanded to include &quot;generational equity&quot; in general just to appeal to those with broader concerns?

o  Infrastruture investment vs. being stuck with past debts.

o  The environmental future vs. current convenience.

BUT ALSO

o  Funding for teachers in the classroom vs. earlier retirement for those that left.

o  Taxes on retirement income relative to wage and self-employment income, particularly for those that have less.

o  Subsidies for shrinking old-line companies vs. taxes on new companies.

o  A second wave of Social Security payroll tax and retirement age increases for future beneficiaries, with no shared sacrifice by older cohorts, possibly used to fund current spending (once again) rather than actually saved for those future beneficiaries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050503850_pf.html

o  And, most importantly, health care finance for at least basic and proven services for everyone at the federal level, including those still paying Medicare taxes, not just more enhancements to the existing Medicare program for those who get it and no longer pay.

I wish those concerned with all those other issues showed the fighting spirit I see from many on this blog, because the inequties and future deterioration are as great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be more nebulous, but might I suggest that the &#8220;electoral project&#8221; be expanded to include &#8220;generational equity&#8221; in general just to appeal to those with broader concerns?</p>
<p>o  Infrastruture investment vs. being stuck with past debts.</p>
<p>o  The environmental future vs. current convenience.</p>
<p>BUT ALSO</p>
<p>o  Funding for teachers in the classroom vs. earlier retirement for those that left.</p>
<p>o  Taxes on retirement income relative to wage and self-employment income, particularly for those that have less.</p>
<p>o  Subsidies for shrinking old-line companies vs. taxes on new companies.</p>
<p>o  A second wave of Social Security payroll tax and retirement age increases for future beneficiaries, with no shared sacrifice by older cohorts, possibly used to fund current spending (once again) rather than actually saved for those future beneficiaries.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050503850_pf.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050503850_pf.html</a></p>
<p>o  And, most importantly, health care finance for at least basic and proven services for everyone at the federal level, including those still paying Medicare taxes, not just more enhancements to the existing Medicare program for those who get it and no longer pay.</p>
<p>I wish those concerned with all those other issues showed the fighting spirit I see from many on this blog, because the inequties and future deterioration are as great.</p>
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		<title>By: fdr</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67514</link>
		<dc:creator>fdr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67514</guid>
		<description>The newspaper headlines all say the Doomsday scenario was avoided. The politicians will put that in their mailings to their constituents, who will be relieved that there won&#039;t be the threatened $3 subway fare and say $2.25 isn&#039;t so bad. The drivers will grumble about the increase in bridge tolls but figure at least the East River bridges are still free. Everybody wins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The newspaper headlines all say the Doomsday scenario was avoided. The politicians will put that in their mailings to their constituents, who will be relieved that there won&#8217;t be the threatened $3 subway fare and say $2.25 isn&#8217;t so bad. The drivers will grumble about the increase in bridge tolls but figure at least the East River bridges are still free. Everybody wins.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67513</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67513</guid>
		<description>Because they have free parking provided by their employers or they are just moving through the city instead of taking the two alternative routes around the city - Verrazano/Goethels or Triboro-GW combos from Long Island, Brooklyn &amp; Queens to NJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they have free parking provided by their employers or they are just moving through the city instead of taking the two alternative routes around the city &#8211; Verrazano/Goethels or Triboro-GW combos from Long Island, Brooklyn &amp; Queens to NJ.</p>
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		<title>By: zz</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67512</link>
		<dc:creator>zz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67512</guid>
		<description>We can start by ending our memberships in ineffectual organizations like the NYPIRG&#039;s Straphanger&#039;s Campaign, and create a real, new grassroots transit advocacy organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can start by ending our memberships in ineffectual organizations like the NYPIRG&#8217;s Straphanger&#8217;s Campaign, and create a real, new grassroots transit advocacy organization.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67511</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67511</guid>
		<description>Why would people want to take a free bridge to get to expensive parking, instead of taking a subway trip that&#039;s $2.25 instead of $2.00?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would people want to take a free bridge to get to expensive parking, instead of taking a subway trip that&#8217;s $2.25 instead of $2.00?</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67509</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 17:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67509</guid>
		<description>Sorry, that should be &quot;daily CAR commuters from the outerboroughs&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, that should be &#8220;daily CAR commuters from the outerboroughs&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/06/we-cant-go-on-living-like-this/comment-page-1/#comment-67508</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 17:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6080#comment-67508</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been trying to calculate the winners and losers in this deal and as far as I can tell this punishes people that are doing good and provides no incentives for bad actors to change their behavior. The only bone is that mass transit service will not be cut. 

People who commute by walking or cycling or work from home have had their income taxes raised not insignificantly - about $150-500/year for most people in the middle to upper middle classes.

People who take the mass transit system who already have to contribute a higher percentage of the total costs than any other mass transit system in the nation will have to pay even more.

People that own cars that they only use on the weekends for special trips at 3-4k miles per year will be taxed at the same cost as people who put 30k miles on their car every year. Same for gas guzzlers vs. highly efficient cars.

People that don&#039;t own cars, but occassionally rent them may pay even more in yearly taxes than automobile owners do for yearly registration fees &amp; taxes.

To boot, the people that politicians talked about protecting the most - daily commuters from the outerboroughs - now face a stark choice: Higher tolls on the MTA bridges or Longer waits on the &quot;Free&quot; East River Bridges. 

It&#039;s not a comprehensive transportation plan, it&#039;s a stop-gap funding band-aid to maintain service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to calculate the winners and losers in this deal and as far as I can tell this punishes people that are doing good and provides no incentives for bad actors to change their behavior. The only bone is that mass transit service will not be cut. </p>
<p>People who commute by walking or cycling or work from home have had their income taxes raised not insignificantly &#8211; about $150-500/year for most people in the middle to upper middle classes.</p>
<p>People who take the mass transit system who already have to contribute a higher percentage of the total costs than any other mass transit system in the nation will have to pay even more.</p>
<p>People that own cars that they only use on the weekends for special trips at 3-4k miles per year will be taxed at the same cost as people who put 30k miles on their car every year. Same for gas guzzlers vs. highly efficient cars.</p>
<p>People that don&#8217;t own cars, but occassionally rent them may pay even more in yearly taxes than automobile owners do for yearly registration fees &amp; taxes.</p>
<p>To boot, the people that politicians talked about protecting the most &#8211; daily commuters from the outerboroughs &#8211; now face a stark choice: Higher tolls on the MTA bridges or Longer waits on the &#8220;Free&#8221; East River Bridges. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a comprehensive transportation plan, it&#8217;s a stop-gap funding band-aid to maintain service.</p>
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