Comments on: Car Chases: Not Like What You See in the Movies

By: firedean

firedean — Wed, 20 May 2009 17:50:57 +0000

NYPD are generally the largest group of overpaid jarheads ever assembled. However, they are alone in that distinction only by virtue of their bloated ranks.Across the country you will notice others like them who although smaller in GIRTH, are allways inside, and never outside of their beloved 'cruisers'. Word on the streets of Greenpoint puts blame firmly on them for this completely unnessary tragedy for which they have been shamefully silent and unapologetic. No wonder the city pays millions in out in civil lawsuits every year. They do not serve the community so the commmunity does and will continue to punish them for this. Their wild west approach to law enforcement and callousness is not without a cost. Were they to ever get out of their cars walk amongst us inside of spending so much time their cars, they might enjoy community support when mistakes were made.

By: Tabitha Phillips

Tabitha Phillips — Fri, 08 May 2009 18:35:10 +0000

Hello everyone.

Please accept my condolences to the family and friends of Violetta Krzyzak. Please do not take my comment below as rude.

I with the law firm Schwartzapfel Truhowsky Marcus, P.C., we are working for Violetta Krzyzak's family to help them receive the justice they deserve.

If anyone witnessed this horrible accident and would like to offer any information, please feel free to contact me with your contact information at tphillips@fightingforyou.com. Thank you and God bless.

By: k8

k8 — Sun, 03 May 2009 06:14:58 +0000

hi-
i've read about the chase on greenpointnews.com, greenpointers.com, brownstoner.com, gothamist.com, streetsblog.org and http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php? i've been told it was mentioned in the post, but i didn't see it there. basically the story, like so many, has already faded into the past. i'm haunted by it (yes, with full knowledge of all of the other terrible stuff going on in the world), maybe because it took place in my neighborhood. my friends, separately, witnessed it so i know for a fact that the police really did act in an inexplicably ludicrous manner by pursuing that minivan. i am not experienced in pursuing stuff like this so i don't know the correct procedure for complaint, but i did find one supposed venue for it in case anyone is interested:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html

By: k8

k8 — Sat, 02 May 2009 13:40:28 +0000

hi-
the chase was at extremely high speed with no sirens. i am close friends with 2 witnesses to the chase, who were on different parts of manhattan ave at the time and all separately reported teh incident to me because of its drama and before the article appeared in gothamist. the police chased the car thief from a comparatively quiet part of manhattan ave to a densely populated one. it would have been a miracle if no one was hurt. instead a 38 yr old woman with a child was killed. her family is devastated and a car thief has become a murderer. the cops played an impt part in this, and have gotten off without a hitch. no mainstream paper reported the chase. i have seen it reported here, gothamist and one other online news source. the majority of the bloggers have been people like jackal, above.

By: Jackal

Jackal — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:49:35 +0000

OK, my posts have been mean. That's what happens when one comments anonymously on a subject about which he feels strongly.

I disagree with your proposal because I do not think it would be effective. Maybe I just should have said that.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:49:00 +0000

I have the benefit of actually knowing what I am talking about

I know more than you about it. My proof? I can call you a latte-sipping academic, and that's all the proof I need.

By: Jackal

Jackal — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:29:15 +0000

Did you actually just troll the entire Internet for a single news story that supports your claim? I can find something through Google that supports pretty lots of unfounded garbage. The basic point very much stands: sitting on your computer and using Google does not make you even close to knowledgeable about this subject. I have the benefit of actually knowing what I am talking about (you know, experience and actual knowledge that I didn't gain in the last two hours on the Internet) and repeat: your ineffectual armchair policymaking does not even pass the laugh test.

Have a nice day.

By: Mark Walker

Mark Walker — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:56:41 +0000

Jackal: "You clearly have no first hand experience with traffic cameras.... They are useless for someone catching someone who is driving a stolen car.... Your suggestion is just factually wrong...." Etc., etc., etc. Police track thieves with traffic cameras. Have a nice day.

By: Jackal

Jackal — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:25:19 +0000

Mark Walker: You clearly have no first hand experience with traffic cameras and seem to have a tenuous grasp of the physical world. They are a "proven technology" when it comes to catching people who are driving their own car. They are useless for catching someone who is driving a stolen car (as is the case in a great many crimes that lead to police chases). Your suggestion is just factually wrong, plain and simple. It's the sort of thing someone might dream up while sipping a coffee in some cafe or writing an academic paper but would never pass the laugh test if presented to people who actually know what they are doing in this area.

Anon: I agree with everything you have said. Clearly escalation must be appropriate and proportional. Exactly what that means in any given situation is the much more difficult question.

By: Mark Walker

Mark Walker — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:28:28 +0000

Jackal, are you asking a lot of rhetorical questions? Are you aware that the traffic camera is a proven technology that works? Do you realize it is quite effective at capturing license plate information and transmitting it to a central processing system? Have you stopped to consider that my proposal is quite simple -- to install more of them, and to get more use out of them? Why do you pretend this is something out of a sci-fi movie, despite all evidence to the contrary? Will your next red herring be the old Big Brother argument, which ignores the fact that the streets are a public place? Is it possible you are merely a scofflaw driver who doesn't want to get caught?

By: Anon

Anon — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:53:31 +0000

Jackal,
Hostage taking is premised on the fact that we, as a society, have decided that there are circumstances where it is better NOT to enforce laws than it is to risk harming the innocent. The same logic applies to not shooting at fleeing suspects on crowded streets and not arresting lots of people that match a description only to figure out which one committed the crime later. Also, the post did not suggest prohibiting police officers from giving chase by car. It did, however, suggest that there should be some consideration of the larger context of the chase, such as the safety of innocent bystanders.

By: Jackal

Jackal — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:45:31 +0000

Mark Walker: Do you actually think that monitoring cameras will be effective? What an academic view - and I am using "academic" as a pejorative. There are so many flaws in your understanding of the physical world that I'm not sure where to begin criticising your plan. Do you actually think it is even possible to identify suspects in this manner (many of whom will be driving stolen vehicles)? Do you actually think these cameras provide usable face shots on a regular basis? (in case you are wondering, the TV show "24" is not reflective of our government's actual surveillance capabilities). And what is your plan for apprehending criminals once you track them down (after all they will all go home, watch TV and wait to be apprehended)? Do we go knock on their doors and say please?

By: Jackal

Jackal — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:58:44 +0000

Police work often puts innocent third parties in danger. Just one example: any time an armed criminal is being pursued there is a risk of hostage-taking. In fact I think most hostage situations exist solely because of the possibilty that the hostage taker may be apprehended. But as a society we have decided that it is much better to risk occasional harm to the innocent - and yes, even the occasional innocent life - than to refuse to enforce the law. If we prohibit police from giving chase by car, we give every criminal with a car a guaranteed escape. Consider watching a murderer escape in traffic just because we are too afraid that he might do even more harm if we chase him. What a spineless and defeatist view.

By: Rhywun

Rhywun — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:30:25 +0000

Oh, I am well aware that the streets are riddled with private security cameras. There are actually websites that track them. There are parts of Manhattan with dozens of cameras per block. That's their right, apparently.

But the police have far more power over me than the average private business does. If they're going to get a network of cameras (and it's only a matter of time), I want those records to be publicly available.

By: Stacy

Stacy — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:49:53 +0000

Mark Walker, Good point. How many times have surveillance cameras proved invaluable in situations that went far beyond the purpose for which they were originally intended?

Rhywun there are probably far more surveillance cameras out there than any of us might suspect, in banks, stores, and even residential apartment buildings. They may not be government owned cameras but they're out there none the less.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:30:41 +0000

There is a huge difference between surveillance cameras that can be continuously monitored or recorded and traffic cameras that ONLY take pictures when they detect a vehicle being operated illegally. Strangely, plenty of the former have been installed with nary a peep, but the latter are being effectively obstructed.

By: Benjamin Running

Benjamin Running — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:55:33 +0000

even more tragic is that this guy will probably get grand theft and involuntary manslaughter and be back on the street in eight years.

By: Shemp

Shemp — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:13:47 +0000

Stacy, maybe it was Shelly.

By: Rhywun

Rhywun — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:56:12 +0000

I'll go along with "cameras on every block" only if the public is allowed to use them, too.

By: Mark Walker

Mark Walker — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:42:30 +0000

If there were traffic surveillance cameras on every block, it wouldn't be necessary for police to chase criminal drivers. They could simply identify them and catch up with them later, without bloodshed. As an added benefit, the cameras could be used to monitor other behavior, like running red lights and blocking pedestrian crossings, automatically generating the appropriate legal penalties with photographic evidence. And they would allow congestion pricing to be implemented flexibly and on a wide scale.