Comments on: Is “Cash for Clunkers” a Good Idea, Ever? http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:01:47 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: John Cooper http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-73161 John Cooper Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:04:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-73161 The Cars For Clunkers legislation is actually very focused and is only available for a limited four month time frame. It offers participants the opportunity to trade in certain older cars for certain other new ones. Unfortunately, many cars do not qualify for the program and therefore are still ideal for the 'traditional' car donor option. Such non-qualifying cars let people give their cars to non-profit organizations who help people with many different kinds of needs, like supporting youth organizations or our older folks or to help promote the arts and health research. Help yourself with the Cash for Clunkers program if you qualify or if you don't qualify or would like to help others, give your "clunker" to charity and take a tax write-off! Here are 400 not-for-profit organizations that can always benefit from your 'clunker' or unneeded vehicle. To donate your car, just click on the link to the charity on the web pages below. http://www.donatecarusa.com/charities/full_list http://www.donatecarusa.com The Cars For Clunkers legislation is actually very focused and is only available for a limited four month time frame. It offers participants the opportunity to trade in certain older cars for certain other new ones. Unfortunately, many cars do not qualify for the program and therefore are still ideal for the 'traditional' car donor option. Such non-qualifying cars let people give their cars to non-profit organizations who help people with many different kinds of needs, like supporting youth organizations or our older folks or to help promote the arts and health research.

Help yourself with the Cash for Clunkers program if you qualify or if you don't qualify or would like to help others, give your "clunker" to charity and take a tax write-off!

Here are 400 not-for-profit organizations that can always benefit from your 'clunker' or unneeded vehicle. To donate your car, just click on the link to the charity on the web pages below.

http://www.donatecarusa.com/charities/full_list

http://www.donatecarusa.com

]]> By: Jaxon http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-71031 Jaxon Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:09:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-71031 I don't qualify because my car already gets good gas mileage. But my dad swears by the car buying process here: <a href="http://excarsalesman.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://excarsalesman.typepad.com</a> I have a feeling dealers are going to automatically increase prices because of the increased demand (artificial) for great MPG cars. So the thousands of savings from this bill for consumers is not entirely accurate. With the price increase, I'm certain some markets you'll come out even as if they never offered this voucher. It is poorly written legislation. I don't qualify because my car already gets good gas mileage. But my dad swears by the car buying process here:
http://excarsalesman.typepad.com

I have a feeling dealers are going to automatically increase prices because of the increased demand (artificial) for great MPG cars. So the thousands of savings from this bill for consumers is not entirely accurate.

With the price increase, I'm certain some markets you'll come out even as if they never offered this voucher. It is poorly written legislation.

]]> By: Brian Pasch http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-69972 Brian Pasch Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:51:41 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-69972 Here is a consumer FAQ page on the bill: http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/bill-faq Here is a consumer FAQ page on the bill: http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/bill-faq

]]> By: John http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66247 John Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:16:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66247 Raise gas taxes, implement electronic tolls, increase real estate taxes on parking lots, raise yearly property tax fees on inefficient vehicles, etc. but the last people who "Deserve-A-Bailout" are those who helped put us in these dire conditions. In addition require Complete Streets at the federal level and use the money the new revenues to achieve those goals. Raise gas taxes, implement electronic tolls, increase real estate taxes on parking lots, raise yearly property tax fees on inefficient vehicles, etc. but the last people who "Deserve-A-Bailout" are those who helped put us in these dire conditions. In addition require Complete Streets at the federal level and use the money the new revenues to achieve those goals.

]]> By: rufustfyrfly http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66171 rufustfyrfly Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:08:45 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66171 This is a terrible idea. They are completely forgetting about the pollutants released during the <i>manufacturing</i> of cars, which is not negligible. In some cases it could be more environmentally friendly to keep driving that old clunker with the bad gas mileage than to buy a brand new hybrid due to the high carbon cost of the manufacturing process. Sorry, but your Prius is not going to save the world. It's much better to just tax greenhouse gases and let those prices guide people's choices (including choosing to live without a car, something this would discourage). ...but of course the policy isn't really meant to help the environment, it's to help General Motors pretend that the demand for cars is going to stay anywhere near where it was during the late 90's through mid-00's. This is a terrible idea. They are completely forgetting about the pollutants released during the manufacturing of cars, which is not negligible. In some cases it could be more environmentally friendly to keep driving that old clunker with the bad gas mileage than to buy a brand new hybrid due to the high carbon cost of the manufacturing process. Sorry, but your Prius is not going to save the world.

It's much better to just tax greenhouse gases and let those prices guide people's choices (including choosing to live without a car, something this would discourage).

...but of course the policy isn't really meant to help the environment, it's to help General Motors pretend that the demand for cars is going to stay anywhere near where it was during the late 90's through mid-00's.

]]> By: bb http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66129 bb Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:02:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66129 I have no problems with taking the 4,000. They can have my old run down bicycle it is so a gas hog. I have no problems with taking the 4,000. They can have my old run down bicycle it is so a gas hog.

]]> By: Miguel Marcos http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66116 Miguel Marcos Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:23:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66116 What I mean by short period is the next few years, the timeframe for this legislation. During such a short period it would be useless to expect deep change in the whole concept of suburbia. What I mean by short period is the next few years, the timeframe for this legislation. During such a short period it would be useless to expect deep change in the whole concept of suburbia.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66114 Cap'n Transit Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:51:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66114 <blockquote>Given the facts of suburban life that won't change radically in a short period,</blockquote> Depends what you mean by "a short period." If that short period is long enough, by the time it's over we'll be underwater.

Given the facts of suburban life that won't change radically in a short period,

Depends what you mean by "a short period." If that short period is long enough, by the time it's over we'll be underwater.

]]> By: Miguel Marcos http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66106 Miguel Marcos Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:09:21 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66106 Here's a different nightmare: Replace the pool of carbon-based cars with electricty-based cars. I think this is worse than the above replacement of clunkers. In this case, a whole beastial infrastructure will have to be built anew to support huge numbers of private electric vehicles. Sheesh. Same traffic jams, high speeds, same suburbia. When will they learn... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/browns-electric-dream-for-britain-1665349.html Here's a different nightmare: Replace the pool of carbon-based cars with electricty-based cars. I think this is worse than the above replacement of clunkers. In this case, a whole beastial infrastructure will have to be built anew to support huge numbers of private electric vehicles. Sheesh.

Same traffic jams, high speeds, same suburbia.

When will they learn...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/browns-electric-dream-for-britain-1665349.html

]]> By: Miguel Marcos http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66105 Miguel Marcos Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:00:34 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66105 For the 'rest of the country' would it make sense to keep the clunkers around? Given the facts of suburban life that won't change radically in a short period, I am in favor of having people drive more fuel efficient vehicles. Getting mass transit accessible in suburbia, much less changing people's habits and the structrue of suburbia, is not a short term project. It's a legitimate and necessary objective but it won't take place overnight. Will a driver with a car that is more fuel efficient drive many more miles because the expense is lower? I'm not sure. I don't think the drivers will radically change their habits (drive to work, supermarket, kid's soccer game). If drivers do not consume more miles with these more efficient cars, then you're reducing overall consumption. It's not going to translate into a massive reduction in fuel consumption but I'll take what I can get. A little less for the oil companies, perhaps a little less oil imported. This legislation does perpetuate the car society but it raises the efficiency of the same which, small as it is, is a step forward. Of course, it should not be used as a smokescreen for the better and longer term solution which is to build communities that are more sustainable, better equipped with public transportation, facilitating the use of feet and bikes as an option, and locating things in such a way where a private car is not the best option. For the 'rest of the country' would it make sense to keep the clunkers around? Given the facts of suburban life that won't change radically in a short period, I am in favor of having people drive more fuel efficient vehicles. Getting mass transit accessible in suburbia, much less changing people's habits and the structrue of suburbia, is not a short term project. It's a legitimate and necessary objective but it won't take place overnight.

Will a driver with a car that is more fuel efficient drive many more miles because the expense is lower? I'm not sure. I don't think the drivers will radically change their habits (drive to work, supermarket, kid's soccer game). If drivers do not consume more miles with these more efficient cars, then you're reducing overall consumption. It's not going to translate into a massive reduction in fuel consumption but I'll take what I can get. A little less for the oil companies, perhaps a little less oil imported.

This legislation does perpetuate the car society but it raises the efficiency of the same which, small as it is, is a step forward. Of course, it should not be used as a smokescreen for the better and longer term solution which is to build communities that are more sustainable, better equipped with public transportation, facilitating the use of feet and bikes as an option, and locating things in such a way where a private car is not the best option.

]]> By: Andy B from Jersey http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66086 Andy B from Jersey Wed, 08 Apr 2009 00:33:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66086 I said wanting. I didn't say doing. I wish to hell someone around here would copy Germany's bicycle transportation policies! Massive improvements every time I get to go back. Copying their High-Speed rail wouldn't be bad either. Or their, renewable energy policy, health care, etc, etc, .... I said wanting. I didn't say doing.

I wish to hell someone around here would copy Germany's bicycle transportation policies! Massive improvements every time I get to go back.

Copying their High-Speed rail wouldn't be bad either. Or their, renewable energy policy, health care, etc, etc, ....

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66077 Rhywun Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:53:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66077 <i>I can't blame them for wanting to copy German policy (again).</i> Germany has abundant public transit. Are we going to copy that policy too? I can't blame them for wanting to copy German policy (again).

Germany has abundant public transit. Are we going to copy that policy too?

]]> By: nanterking http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66073 nanterking Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:15:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66073 I believe there is a stipulation that requires you own the old vehicle for some period of time, like 2 years, before you can qualify for the tax credit on trade-in. That is to prevent what you are talking about - buying a clunker just to get access to the credit. I believe there is a stipulation that requires you own the old vehicle for some period of time, like 2 years, before you can qualify for the tax credit on trade-in. That is to prevent what you are talking about - buying a clunker just to get access to the credit.

]]> By: Andy B from Jersey http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66068 Andy B from Jersey Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:49:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66068 Yeah with headlines like these "German car sales soar 40 percent in March" I can't blame them for wanting to copy German policy (again). The German government is helping to stimulate its auto manufacturing base buy giving people 2,500 Euros to replace their older, more polluting and less efficient cars for new ones. The problem with trying to replicate such a policy here in the US is that American car manufacturers don't currently produce too many clean and efficient cars. I'd say I'm for it if it applies only to SUVs and Light Truck owners and then they must buy small, efficient cars. Get those pedestrian killing behemoths off the road! Yeah with headlines like these "German car sales soar 40 percent in March" I can't blame them for wanting to copy German policy (again). The German government is helping to stimulate its auto manufacturing base buy giving people 2,500 Euros to replace their older, more polluting and less efficient cars for new ones.

The problem with trying to replicate such a policy here in the US is that American car manufacturers don't currently produce too many clean and efficient cars.

I'd say I'm for it if it applies only to SUVs and Light Truck owners and then they must buy small, efficient cars.

Get those pedestrian killing behemoths off the road!

]]> By: Ashcan Sam http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66064 Ashcan Sam Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:15:15 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66064 Maybe this will encourage me, a non-car owner, to buy a $500 clunker just so I can turn it in and get $5000. Maybe this will encourage me, a non-car owner, to buy a $500 clunker just so I can turn it in and get $5000.

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66063 Rhywun Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:07:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66063 Terrible idea. Those clunkers will eventually run themselves down and people will then be able to make their own decision about buying a car or not without the government making that decision for them (i.e. encouraging them to buy another car). This is really just another part of the Detroit bailout that Obama's pushing for. Terrible idea. Those clunkers will eventually run themselves down and people will then be able to make their own decision about buying a car or not without the government making that decision for them (i.e. encouraging them to buy another car). This is really just another part of the Detroit bailout that Obama's pushing for.

]]> By: rlb http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66062 rlb Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:34:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66062 I am not an economist, but I have heard of the Jevons effect. It follows from the fact that an increase in energy efficiency decreases the cost of that energy, thereby increasing the demand. If the demand increase more than makes up for the savings from increased efficiency, you're are back to or even beyond where you started. We are at risk of this happening with cars and hybrids and electric cars without the government giving away money. Forced demand will only make it more likely that emissions will actually grow with an increase in automobile efficiency. I am not an economist, but I have heard of the Jevons effect. It follows from the fact that an increase in energy efficiency decreases the cost of that energy, thereby increasing the demand. If the demand increase more than makes up for the savings from increased efficiency, you're are back to or even beyond where you started.
We are at risk of this happening with cars and hybrids and electric cars without the government giving away money. Forced demand will only make it more likely that emissions will actually grow with an increase in automobile efficiency.

]]> By: Adam http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66056 Adam Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:46:37 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66056 Shame on me for doing the right thing and only ever buying fuel-efficient cars and then driving them until they're just about worthless. Hey, what's to stop me from buying an old, barely-working beater for $500 now on spec and then trading it for the $4,000 voucher after the law passes? Shame on me for doing the right thing and only ever buying fuel-efficient cars and then driving them until they're just about worthless. Hey, what's to stop me from buying an old, barely-working beater for $500 now on spec and then trading it for the $4,000 voucher after the law passes?

]]> By: oscarfrye http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66048 oscarfrye Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:43:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66048 a nice thank you gift for driving around a beast for the past five years, while us responsible people who didn't choose such cars foot the bill. a nice thank you gift for driving around a beast for the past five years, while us responsible people who didn't choose such cars foot the bill.

]]> By: Jeffrey W. Baker http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/04/07/is-cash-for-clunkers-a-good-idea-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-66046 Jeffrey W. Baker Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:39:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5843#comment-66046 Stupid to tinker around the edges when all interests are best served by a $1/gal gas tax. Stupid to tinker around the edges when all interests are best served by a $1/gal gas tax.

]]>