Comments on: Rebuilding Roads with “Practical Design” http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/rebuilding-roads-with-practical-design/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Brent Hugh http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/rebuilding-roads-with-practical-design/comment-page-1/#comment-65581 Brent Hugh Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:30:01 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5625#comment-65581 Agreed that the practical effect of practical design in Missouri is that MoDot cuts out bicycle and pedestrian accommodations first thing. Another downside is they tend to eliminate things like shoulders that don't have a "tangible benefit" when in fact even though a shoulder is not an official bicycle or pedestrian facility, they are in fact very important for bicylists and pedestrians in many situations. Also unlike the related philosophy of "context sensitive design," which has as a very high priority taking into consideration needs of the community, practical design very clearly has as its highest goal saving money. The result is the needs of the community are given lower than usual priority, especially if those needs cost more money. Agreed that the practical effect of practical design in Missouri is that MoDot cuts out bicycle and pedestrian accommodations first thing.

Another downside is they tend to eliminate things like shoulders that don’t have a “tangible benefit” when in fact even though a shoulder is not an official bicycle or pedestrian facility, they are in fact very important for bicylists and pedestrians in many situations.

Also unlike the related philosophy of “context sensitive design,” which has as a very high priority taking into consideration needs of the community, practical design very clearly has as its highest goal saving money.

The result is the needs of the community are given lower than usual priority, especially if those needs cost more money.

]]> By: Aaron M. Renn http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/rebuilding-roads-with-practical-design/comment-page-1/#comment-64397 Aaron M. Renn Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:02:28 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5625#comment-64397 Some of this has the potential to be excellent. However, practical design doesn't always mean what you think it does. State DOT's want to save money on projects. If, under the rubric of "practical design", they do things like use drainage ditches instead of enclosed sewers or eliminate sidewalks or any aesthetic treatments, this is a step backwards, not forwards, IMO. Some of this has the potential to be excellent. However, practical design doesn’t always mean what you think it does. State DOT’s want to save money on projects. If, under the rubric of “practical design”, they do things like use drainage ditches instead of enclosed sewers or eliminate sidewalks or any aesthetic treatments, this is a step backwards, not forwards, IMO.

]]> By: john http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/rebuilding-roads-with-practical-design/comment-page-1/#comment-64360 john Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:04:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5625#comment-64360 MoDOT in building the New 64 in St Louis has largely destroyed practical design. Some pedestrian bridges across the highway have been eliminated. What was once short walks to numerous stores, restaurants, etc of 0.25 miles roundtrip became 3.6 miles roundtrip. Neighborhood streets have been torn up with the increase in construction traffic for the last 23 months and there are no plans to repair them and the replaced sewer system has been poorly rebuilt. Over 70 homes have been torn down to make room for more lanes of traffic and large/longer ramps. Not one mile of cycling infrastructure along this important route through the heart of the city has been included. In fact on arterial roads, former favored cycling routes have been eliminated to make another lane for motorized traffic caused by closing the 64 for upgrades. This has been a disaster for pedestrians and cyclists. MoDOT in building the New 64 in St Louis has largely destroyed practical design. Some pedestrian bridges across the highway have been eliminated. What was once short walks to numerous stores, restaurants, etc of 0.25 miles roundtrip became 3.6 miles roundtrip. Neighborhood streets have been torn up with the increase in construction traffic for the last 23 months and there are no plans to repair them and the replaced sewer system has been poorly rebuilt.

Over 70 homes have been torn down to make room for more lanes of traffic and large/longer ramps. Not one mile of cycling infrastructure along this important route through the heart of the city has been included. In fact on arterial roads, former favored cycling routes have been eliminated to make another lane for motorized traffic caused by closing the 64 for upgrades. This has been a disaster for pedestrians and cyclists.

]]> By: Eric Rogers http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/rebuilding-roads-with-practical-design/comment-page-1/#comment-64355 Eric Rogers Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:37:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5625#comment-64355 Practical design is a great way to build more roads with limited money, but the practical effect for other modes means that the bike lane or sidewalk is usually the first thing that MoDOT cuts from a project. So far our experience here in Missouri is that the savings gained from practical design is almost always used to build more of the road, not put into any bike/ped infrastructure. Practical design is a great way to build more roads with limited money, but the practical effect for other modes means that the bike lane or sidewalk is usually the first thing that MoDOT cuts from a project. So far our experience here in Missouri is that the savings gained from practical design is almost always used to build more of the road, not put into any bike/ped infrastructure.

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