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	<title>Comments on: For Cyclists, It&#8217;s a PR War Out There</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: donnie jeffcoat</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64612</link>
		<dc:creator>donnie jeffcoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64612</guid>
		<description>Lets get beyond this indictment of ALL bikers. Its an indictment of a certain kind of biker who threatens other bikers who aren&#039;t going fast enough, because god forbid, some bikers who live in the city make wrong turns, actually want to dodge pedestrians and cars, and even just want to relax by cruising down quiet streets at medium speeds.

I&#039;m out to get YOU, you ungrateful spandex crusaders. What loser takes the brooklyn bridge to get somewhere quick?? You know where the tourists are in this town so stop acting like you never expected them to not know where they are going. Jeez. You&#039;re the idiot, not them, and ESPECIALLY not other bikers who are in the same situation as you. Please stop freaking out at other bikers who aren&#039;t up to your unreasonable expectations. If you&#039;re really in a freaking rush every second of your leisure life, then you&#039;re in for a spectacular death. As a &quot;biker&quot; myself, I don&#039;t feel bad on your behalf, by the way, I just feel sorry for you and would like you to be forever banished to a velodrome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets get beyond this indictment of ALL bikers. Its an indictment of a certain kind of biker who threatens other bikers who aren&#8217;t going fast enough, because god forbid, some bikers who live in the city make wrong turns, actually want to dodge pedestrians and cars, and even just want to relax by cruising down quiet streets at medium speeds.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m out to get YOU, you ungrateful spandex crusaders. What loser takes the brooklyn bridge to get somewhere quick?? You know where the tourists are in this town so stop acting like you never expected them to not know where they are going. Jeez. You&#8217;re the idiot, not them, and ESPECIALLY not other bikers who are in the same situation as you. Please stop freaking out at other bikers who aren&#8217;t up to your unreasonable expectations. If you&#8217;re really in a freaking rush every second of your leisure life, then you&#8217;re in for a spectacular death. As a &#8220;biker&#8221; myself, I don&#8217;t feel bad on your behalf, by the way, I just feel sorry for you and would like you to be forever banished to a velodrome.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64432</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64432</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Komanoff. The piece doesn&#039;t deserve all the hate it gets. It&#039;s reasonably well written and does have some good points. Now some of the commenters, on the other hand, demonstrate what it is cyclists are up against on a daily basis.

IMO, part of the issue is that we like to toss around terms like &quot;community&quot; as if they actually mean something. In many contexts, it&#039;s mental shorthand for something that does not exist. There is no bike community per se, any more than there is a motorist community. Actually, let me take that back - there is a community but is a very thin veneer indeed. 

If you check out the Editor&#039;s Selections in the article&#039;s comments, you can see the one I wrote (#86) which pretty much sums up how I think we can get from here to there on this issue. It won&#039;t be easy or quick but I think it can be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Komanoff. The piece doesn&#8217;t deserve all the hate it gets. It&#8217;s reasonably well written and does have some good points. Now some of the commenters, on the other hand, demonstrate what it is cyclists are up against on a daily basis.</p>
<p>IMO, part of the issue is that we like to toss around terms like &#8220;community&#8221; as if they actually mean something. In many contexts, it&#8217;s mental shorthand for something that does not exist. There is no bike community per se, any more than there is a motorist community. Actually, let me take that back &#8211; there is a community but is a very thin veneer indeed. </p>
<p>If you check out the Editor&#8217;s Selections in the article&#8217;s comments, you can see the one I wrote (#86) which pretty much sums up how I think we can get from here to there on this issue. It won&#8217;t be easy or quick but I think it can be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Meitzler</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64405</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Meitzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64405</guid>
		<description>Also: Susan D, I&#039;m your newest fan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also: Susan D, I&#8217;m your newest fan!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Meitzler</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64404</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Meitzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64404</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just say this.  I see a number of people here whom I respect pulled over to Sullivan&#039;s arguments because they identify (to be fair...in varying degrees certainly) with Sullivan&#039;s desire (and self-promotion) both to be a cycling diplomat and exercise control over certain members of our wheeled family.  My friends are then lulled into being sympathetic towards his faulty conclusions based upon very particular and not representative examples about all that is wrong with the social contract cyclists are party to with other street users.  

Clarence is right: it&#039;s a dated article OR it&#039;s about 25 years too soon.  We&#039;re not there yet enough to warrant going back to the Future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just say this.  I see a number of people here whom I respect pulled over to Sullivan&#8217;s arguments because they identify (to be fair&#8230;in varying degrees certainly) with Sullivan&#8217;s desire (and self-promotion) both to be a cycling diplomat and exercise control over certain members of our wheeled family.  My friends are then lulled into being sympathetic towards his faulty conclusions based upon very particular and not representative examples about all that is wrong with the social contract cyclists are party to with other street users.  </p>
<p>Clarence is right: it&#8217;s a dated article OR it&#8217;s about 25 years too soon.  We&#8217;re not there yet enough to warrant going back to the Future.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64395</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64395</guid>
		<description>The problem of aggressive cyclists pales in comparison to the problem of out-of-control motorists in NYC. That is what makes me wonder why the Times felt a need to publish this particular article. 

I have walked to work every day for 2 years and have never had a problem with a cyclist. However, every day I see motorists speeding, running red lights, endangering others, etc.

And when can we expect to see a positive article about cycling highlighting the convenience and recreational, health, and environmental benefits?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem of aggressive cyclists pales in comparison to the problem of out-of-control motorists in NYC. That is what makes me wonder why the Times felt a need to publish this particular article. </p>
<p>I have walked to work every day for 2 years and have never had a problem with a cyclist. However, every day I see motorists speeding, running red lights, endangering others, etc.</p>
<p>And when can we expect to see a positive article about cycling highlighting the convenience and recreational, health, and environmental benefits?</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64392</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 05:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64392</guid>
		<description>Here is another illustration of my point: as a homeowner, I&#039;m not held responsible for the misconduct of homeowners because I didn&#039;t default on a subprime mortgage.  As a businessman I&#039;m not held responsible for the misconduct of businessmen because I don&#039;t subcontract to slave-drivers in China.  But if I put on a bike helmet, suddenly I&#039;m responsible for every cyclist who runs down a senior citizen in a crosswalk.

What&#039;s the difference?  Power and status.  As a businessman or homeowner I have status and power, and nobody&#039;s going to mess with me.  As a cyclist I have a little power, but it&#039;s so out of proportion to my status that if anything it makes me a threat.

Also empathy, which comes from solidarity and familiarity.  The main difference between people who complain about &quot;bikers&quot; and people who don&#039;t is that the people who don&#039;t either are cyclists, can imagine themselves as cyclists or have loved ones who are cyclists. 

The only way to avoid this blame is by having enough power to deflect it, or by having enough solidarity with the community at large (beyond cyclists) that people see you as an individual, not a member of a group.  That means working on gaining power or making allies.  Everything else is a distraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another illustration of my point: as a homeowner, I&#8217;m not held responsible for the misconduct of homeowners because I didn&#8217;t default on a subprime mortgage.  As a businessman I&#8217;m not held responsible for the misconduct of businessmen because I don&#8217;t subcontract to slave-drivers in China.  But if I put on a bike helmet, suddenly I&#8217;m responsible for every cyclist who runs down a senior citizen in a crosswalk.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the difference?  Power and status.  As a businessman or homeowner I have status and power, and nobody&#8217;s going to mess with me.  As a cyclist I have a little power, but it&#8217;s so out of proportion to my status that if anything it makes me a threat.</p>
<p>Also empathy, which comes from solidarity and familiarity.  The main difference between people who complain about &#8220;bikers&#8221; and people who don&#8217;t is that the people who don&#8217;t either are cyclists, can imagine themselves as cyclists or have loved ones who are cyclists. </p>
<p>The only way to avoid this blame is by having enough power to deflect it, or by having enough solidarity with the community at large (beyond cyclists) that people see you as an individual, not a member of a group.  That means working on gaining power or making allies.  Everything else is a distraction.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64391</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64391</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m saying that the criticism is not valid because there&#039;s no such thing as &quot;bikers.&quot;  There&#039;s just people, and some of them ride bikes.  I do not accept Sullivan&#039;s criticism because I do not behave that way.

I&#039;m not making an analogy.  It&#039;s the same game, where the powerful blame the upstarts for any sin committed by any member of their group.  People who play the game aren&#039;t doomed to servitude, they&#039;re just wasting time that would be much better spent fighting for justice or better street design.  If you and Sullivan want to wag your fingers until they fall off, go ahead.  But if you&#039;re still wagging your fingers ten years from now while continuing to be marginalized, don&#039;t say I didn&#039;t tell you so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m saying that the criticism is not valid because there&#8217;s no such thing as &#8220;bikers.&#8221;  There&#8217;s just people, and some of them ride bikes.  I do not accept Sullivan&#8217;s criticism because I do not behave that way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not making an analogy.  It&#8217;s the same game, where the powerful blame the upstarts for any sin committed by any member of their group.  People who play the game aren&#8217;t doomed to servitude, they&#8217;re just wasting time that would be much better spent fighting for justice or better street design.  If you and Sullivan want to wag your fingers until they fall off, go ahead.  But if you&#8217;re still wagging your fingers ten years from now while continuing to be marginalized, don&#8217;t say I didn&#8217;t tell you so.</p>
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		<title>By: I \v/ NY</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64390</link>
		<dc:creator>I \v/ NY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64390</guid>
		<description>how about the recent proposal in oregon to tax bikes $50+ year per bike, led by a handful of republicans?

http://bikeportland.org/2009/03/06/mandatory-bike-registration-bill-introduced-in-salem/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how about the recent proposal in oregon to tax bikes $50+ year per bike, led by a handful of republicans?</p>
<p><a href="http://bikeportland.org/2009/03/06/mandatory-bike-registration-bill-introduced-in-salem/" rel="nofollow">http://bikeportland.org/2009/03/06/mandatory-bike-registration-bill-introduced-in-salem/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lola</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64389</link>
		<dc:creator>Lola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64389</guid>
		<description>Angus, are you saying we cannot accept valid criticism without being doomed to servitude for life?

The example you give of race-baiting is extreme and hardly characterizes the attitude of the average citizen out there, even the average bike hater. Your analogy doesn&#039;t hang.

I&#039;m a cyclist and a ped too, and sometimes even a driver. It makes me mad to see threatening behavior on the street by anyone, willful or unconscious. The surest way to reduce that behavior in the long term is to raise people&#039;s awareness of it. Yes, a small percentage will remain untouched. They&#039;re called sociopaths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angus, are you saying we cannot accept valid criticism without being doomed to servitude for life?</p>
<p>The example you give of race-baiting is extreme and hardly characterizes the attitude of the average citizen out there, even the average bike hater. Your analogy doesn&#8217;t hang.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a cyclist and a ped too, and sometimes even a driver. It makes me mad to see threatening behavior on the street by anyone, willful or unconscious. The surest way to reduce that behavior in the long term is to raise people&#8217;s awareness of it. Yes, a small percentage will remain untouched. They&#8217;re called sociopaths.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64388</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64388</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, Charlie and Lola (!) but Sullivan has walked into a trap set by the &lt;a href=&quot;http://mediamatters.org/items/200611150004&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Glenn Becks&lt;/a&gt; of the transportation world - and apparently, so have you.  On the surface Sullivan may be making a pragmatic argument, but the whole frame he invokes is loaded with moral condemnation.

Just as there is no way for &quot;good Muslims&quot; to prove that Muslims on the whole are good and deserving of respect, and there is no way for &quot;good Black people&quot; to prove that Black people on the whole are good and deserving of power, there is no way for cycling advocates to prove that &quot;bikers&quot; are responsible and thus deserving of infrastructure spending.  We all deserve respect, power and infrastructure because we are people.  That&#039;s all anyone needs.

The only winning move is not to play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, Charlie and Lola (!) but Sullivan has walked into a trap set by the <a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200611150004" rel="nofollow">Glenn Becks</a> of the transportation world &#8211; and apparently, so have you.  On the surface Sullivan may be making a pragmatic argument, but the whole frame he invokes is loaded with moral condemnation.</p>
<p>Just as there is no way for &#8220;good Muslims&#8221; to prove that Muslims on the whole are good and deserving of respect, and there is no way for &#8220;good Black people&#8221; to prove that Black people on the whole are good and deserving of power, there is no way for cycling advocates to prove that &#8220;bikers&#8221; are responsible and thus deserving of infrastructure spending.  We all deserve respect, power and infrastructure because we are people.  That&#8217;s all anyone needs.</p>
<p>The only winning move is not to play.</p>
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		<title>By: Lola</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64387</link>
		<dc:creator>Lola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64387</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Komrade K. 

The ability to imagine how the other guy feels seems to be difficult for
many of us to do (people in general). Yet if we&#039;re going to &quot;share the
road,&quot; that is exactly what we all have to do.

I have been stunned by how some Sullivan&#039;s critics overlook statements like:
&quot;To be clear, cars are more likely to kill nonbikers; we still live in a
world ruled by the ruthless car.&quot; I guess what riles them is that Sullivan is not only critical of drivers, but (sacre bleu!) of cyclists.

The circling-the-wagons, we&#039;re-above-criticism argument invariably comes
down to a relativistic parsing of wrongs: Killing someone while speeding
in a car is much, much worse than buzzing an old lady in a crosswalk even
when she doesn&#039;t fall over. Well, yes. But buzzing peds is still wrong,
dangerous, frightening, inconsiderate, and completely unnecessary. The
argument is sanctimonious, and its arrogance angers the public further.

Furthermore, that rep for sanctimony gets thrown back onto activists
trying to improve street conditions for cyclists (and just ordinary
nonhazardous cyclists, as Sullivan observes). Remember Ben McGrath&#039;s
&quot;Holy Rollers&quot; in the Nov. 2006 New Yorker? 

The nonthinking public may be wrong to tar all cyclists with the same
brush. But it happens, and it takes a lot of effort to undo
it--effort that at this point should be spent organizing for positive,
practical accomplishments.

Which is another thing I like about Sullivan&#039;s article. He basically
concludes that for all the chaos and anger, bicycling is on the rise and
seems to be almost unstoppable. Let&#039;s keep it moving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Komrade K. </p>
<p>The ability to imagine how the other guy feels seems to be difficult for<br />
many of us to do (people in general). Yet if we&#8217;re going to &#8220;share the<br />
road,&#8221; that is exactly what we all have to do.</p>
<p>I have been stunned by how some Sullivan&#8217;s critics overlook statements like:<br />
&#8220;To be clear, cars are more likely to kill nonbikers; we still live in a<br />
world ruled by the ruthless car.&#8221; I guess what riles them is that Sullivan is not only critical of drivers, but (sacre bleu!) of cyclists.</p>
<p>The circling-the-wagons, we&#8217;re-above-criticism argument invariably comes<br />
down to a relativistic parsing of wrongs: Killing someone while speeding<br />
in a car is much, much worse than buzzing an old lady in a crosswalk even<br />
when she doesn&#8217;t fall over. Well, yes. But buzzing peds is still wrong,<br />
dangerous, frightening, inconsiderate, and completely unnecessary. The<br />
argument is sanctimonious, and its arrogance angers the public further.</p>
<p>Furthermore, that rep for sanctimony gets thrown back onto activists<br />
trying to improve street conditions for cyclists (and just ordinary<br />
nonhazardous cyclists, as Sullivan observes). Remember Ben McGrath&#8217;s<br />
&#8220;Holy Rollers&#8221; in the Nov. 2006 New Yorker? </p>
<p>The nonthinking public may be wrong to tar all cyclists with the same<br />
brush. But it happens, and it takes a lot of effort to undo<br />
it&#8211;effort that at this point should be spent organizing for positive,<br />
practical accomplishments.</p>
<p>Which is another thing I like about Sullivan&#8217;s article. He basically<br />
concludes that for all the chaos and anger, bicycling is on the rise and<br />
seems to be almost unstoppable. Let&#8217;s keep it moving.</p>
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		<title>By: bc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64386</link>
		<dc:creator>bc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64386</guid>
		<description>K - what?? While what you say appears thoughtful and I appreciate the spirit of it...no.  Of course I will trash a piece that says we suffer from a PR problem and has as it&#039;s title &quot;the wild bunch&quot;...and I hate salmon (bikers going the wrong way) but bringing up anecdotal evidence is the wrong way to go.  Shall I recount one of the 20 near misses due to drivers driving poorly on my commute today?  Yes, writing Morgenthau is a great idea, however, has zero to do with this article and thread, and Sullivan&#039;s misguided article is not his fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K &#8211; what?? While what you say appears thoughtful and I appreciate the spirit of it&#8230;no.  Of course I will trash a piece that says we suffer from a PR problem and has as it&#8217;s title &#8220;the wild bunch&#8221;&#8230;and I hate salmon (bikers going the wrong way) but bringing up anecdotal evidence is the wrong way to go.  Shall I recount one of the 20 near misses due to drivers driving poorly on my commute today?  Yes, writing Morgenthau is a great idea, however, has zero to do with this article and thread, and Sullivan&#8217;s misguided article is not his fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Komanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64385</link>
		<dc:creator>Komanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64385</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised and dismayed by the criticism, some of it almost vitriolic, directed at Sullivan&#039;s well-written, carefully considered piece.

The piece makes a pragmatic argument, not a moral one, for cyclists to adhere to a set of sensible, non-onerous rules. One of which was to stop for red lights at major intersections (at least one commenter ignored the fact that Sullivan was okay with &quot;Stop and Go&quot; at other intersections.)

It is true that the Times has never run a feature article, in the City Section or elsewhere, on driver misbehavior, pedestrian car-nage, the fecklessness of the NYPD&#039;s crash &quot;investigations,&quot; etc. That is shameful. But it&#039;s not Sullivan&#039;s fault. Ditto the photos and the headline, neither of which any newspaper writer ever has anything to do with.

Once upon a time I too would have fulminated against &quot;accommodation&quot; (such as Sullivan&#039;s four rules) unless drivers too were faced down. While I yearn to see dangerous drivers brought to heel -- BTW, I was at the Chinatown community&#039;s stirring demonstration today demanding that D.A. Morgenthau impanel a grand jury in the case of the killing of Diego Martinez and Hayley Ng; if any of our commenters were there, I didn&#039;t see &#039;em -- I am now willing to countenance appeals such as Sullivan&#039;s, especially when they are rendered as thoughtfully as his.

Why? Maybe it&#039;s &#039;cause on a recent ride home from work I was nearly hit by three wrong-way cyclists, one of whom swooped around a corner (wrong-way into wrong-way), the other two also going really fast. Maybe it&#039;s &#039;cause I believe in reciprocity and, for the first time in my cycling life the City is indeed starting to put itself on the line for cycling. Maybe it&#039;s &#039;cause Sullivan&#039;s article brought the bad old &#039;70s and &#039;80s back to life for me and reminded me how much safer I feel riding now.

To Sullivan&#039;s modest proposal I&#039;ll add mine: don&#039;t trash his piece for &quot;ignoring the real killers&quot; until you&#039;ve written to Morgenthau and demanded that he stop coddling killer-drivers, of whom Hayley and Diego&#039;s killer is just the latest in a terribly long line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised and dismayed by the criticism, some of it almost vitriolic, directed at Sullivan&#8217;s well-written, carefully considered piece.</p>
<p>The piece makes a pragmatic argument, not a moral one, for cyclists to adhere to a set of sensible, non-onerous rules. One of which was to stop for red lights at major intersections (at least one commenter ignored the fact that Sullivan was okay with &#8220;Stop and Go&#8221; at other intersections.)</p>
<p>It is true that the Times has never run a feature article, in the City Section or elsewhere, on driver misbehavior, pedestrian car-nage, the fecklessness of the NYPD&#8217;s crash &#8220;investigations,&#8221; etc. That is shameful. But it&#8217;s not Sullivan&#8217;s fault. Ditto the photos and the headline, neither of which any newspaper writer ever has anything to do with.</p>
<p>Once upon a time I too would have fulminated against &#8220;accommodation&#8221; (such as Sullivan&#8217;s four rules) unless drivers too were faced down. While I yearn to see dangerous drivers brought to heel &#8212; BTW, I was at the Chinatown community&#8217;s stirring demonstration today demanding that D.A. Morgenthau impanel a grand jury in the case of the killing of Diego Martinez and Hayley Ng; if any of our commenters were there, I didn&#8217;t see &#8216;em &#8212; I am now willing to countenance appeals such as Sullivan&#8217;s, especially when they are rendered as thoughtfully as his.</p>
<p>Why? Maybe it&#8217;s &#8217;cause on a recent ride home from work I was nearly hit by three wrong-way cyclists, one of whom swooped around a corner (wrong-way into wrong-way), the other two also going really fast. Maybe it&#8217;s &#8217;cause I believe in reciprocity and, for the first time in my cycling life the City is indeed starting to put itself on the line for cycling. Maybe it&#8217;s &#8217;cause Sullivan&#8217;s article brought the bad old &#8217;70s and &#8217;80s back to life for me and reminded me how much safer I feel riding now.</p>
<p>To Sullivan&#8217;s modest proposal I&#8217;ll add mine: don&#8217;t trash his piece for &#8220;ignoring the real killers&#8221; until you&#8217;ve written to Morgenthau and demanded that he stop coddling killer-drivers, of whom Hayley and Diego&#8217;s killer is just the latest in a terribly long line.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64384</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64384</guid>
		<description>Good point, Kevin.  Underlying the whole article is the feeling that &quot;bikers&quot; don&#039;t have the right to be on the road, and if &quot;we&quot; don&#039;t behave they&#039;ll just take it away.  Funny how motorists aren&#039;t held to those standards.

Cyclists have a right to the road because they&#039;re people using a relatively safe, efficient mode of transportation.  They&#039;re people, and you get them to behave in acceptably safe ways by facility design and enforcement, not by browbeating them and making them feel like they don&#039;t belong - even as you pat yourself on the back about being &quot;one of them.&quot;

Also, what Jonesy said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Kevin.  Underlying the whole article is the feeling that &#8220;bikers&#8221; don&#8217;t have the right to be on the road, and if &#8220;we&#8221; don&#8217;t behave they&#8217;ll just take it away.  Funny how motorists aren&#8217;t held to those standards.</p>
<p>Cyclists have a right to the road because they&#8217;re people using a relatively safe, efficient mode of transportation.  They&#8217;re people, and you get them to behave in acceptably safe ways by facility design and enforcement, not by browbeating them and making them feel like they don&#8217;t belong &#8211; even as you pat yourself on the back about being &#8220;one of them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, what Jonesy said.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64382</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64382</guid>
		<description>I would like to see a similar article critiquing NYC motorists, who I routinely observe speeding, running red lights, needlessly honking their horns, engaging in road rage, racing to beat traffic lights, and not yielding to pedestrians when turning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see a similar article critiquing NYC motorists, who I routinely observe speeding, running red lights, needlessly honking their horns, engaging in road rage, racing to beat traffic lights, and not yielding to pedestrians when turning.</p>
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		<title>By: dporpentine</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64378</link>
		<dc:creator>dporpentine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64378</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve already given my response to the article on the Times&#039; site (http://tinyurl.com/ahaz8j), but I&#039;ll just repeat something here that I&#039;ve said before: stopping for lights does not cost you time. 

Every day on my commute bikers pass me at red lights and every day I catch up to almost every single one of them. Something like one out of every ten red light running nimnuls manages to get ahead of me over the length of my commute.  

Running red lights is illegal and gets you nothing. Nothing. If you do it, you&#039;re part of the sick culture of the New York streets, not part of a healthy, civil culture that, without much effort, could make all of our lives much easier.

And, yes: calling fellow bikers &quot;nimnuls&quot; is proof that I know everything there is to know about civility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve already given my response to the article on the Times&#8217; site (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ahaz8j" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ahaz8j</a>), but I&#8217;ll just repeat something here that I&#8217;ve said before: stopping for lights does not cost you time. </p>
<p>Every day on my commute bikers pass me at red lights and every day I catch up to almost every single one of them. Something like one out of every ten red light running nimnuls manages to get ahead of me over the length of my commute.  </p>
<p>Running red lights is illegal and gets you nothing. Nothing. If you do it, you&#8217;re part of the sick culture of the New York streets, not part of a healthy, civil culture that, without much effort, could make all of our lives much easier.</p>
<p>And, yes: calling fellow bikers &#8220;nimnuls&#8221; is proof that I know everything there is to know about civility.</p>
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		<title>By: bc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64377</link>
		<dc:creator>bc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64377</guid>
		<description>night train brings up a good point. i&#039;ve been yelled out many times for doing things which were perfectly legal, and I bet if you polled drivers, an alarming percentage of them would think that we were doing something wrong merely by being on the road.  makes it awfully difficult to do pr when people don&#039;t know the rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>night train brings up a good point. i&#8217;ve been yelled out many times for doing things which were perfectly legal, and I bet if you polled drivers, an alarming percentage of them would think that we were doing something wrong merely by being on the road.  makes it awfully difficult to do pr when people don&#8217;t know the rules.</p>
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		<title>By: night train</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64375</link>
		<dc:creator>night train</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64375</guid>
		<description>A good idea came across in the blog at CommuteOrlando.com .  Many drivers manuals mention very little about bicycles and their operation on the roads.  One author on the blog will be having her son take both the state driving test AND Road 1 cycling course before he is allowed to get his drivers license.

Sound like a good idea, especially for those rednecks and yahoos that don&#039;t understand that bicycles belong on the road, NOT on the sidewalk.  

Bicycle trails, side paths, and bike lanes are nothing more than a successful means to get bikes out of the way of motorists and off the roads.  

Education is the key for both cyclists and motorists.  State drivers courses and certified cycling courses can take care of a vast majority of the education part of the solution.

Get out and ride is the other part!  Happy Riding!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good idea came across in the blog at CommuteOrlando.com .  Many drivers manuals mention very little about bicycles and their operation on the roads.  One author on the blog will be having her son take both the state driving test AND Road 1 cycling course before he is allowed to get his drivers license.</p>
<p>Sound like a good idea, especially for those rednecks and yahoos that don&#8217;t understand that bicycles belong on the road, NOT on the sidewalk.  </p>
<p>Bicycle trails, side paths, and bike lanes are nothing more than a successful means to get bikes out of the way of motorists and off the roads.  </p>
<p>Education is the key for both cyclists and motorists.  State drivers courses and certified cycling courses can take care of a vast majority of the education part of the solution.</p>
<p>Get out and ride is the other part!  Happy Riding!</p>
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		<title>By: J-Uptown</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64374</link>
		<dc:creator>J-Uptown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64374</guid>
		<description>I must say, better enforcement certainly encourages better behavior. When I stop at a red light next to a cop car, I look both ways and run it with no worry about getting a ticket. Bikers are largely ignored, probably due to the minimal safety threat we pose compared to automobiles. This logic explains why sidewalk cycling is ticketed, but running red lights isn&#039;t. As cycling grows, you can expect that to change, particularly in crowded pedestrian areas.

As for PR, I kind of take this article as a positive sign. There wouldn&#039;t be this type of article if biking was flat or on the decline. Automobile traffic certainly is delining, and streets are constantly being redesigned to improve safety and reduce auto traffic. The change is slow, but it is steady. Widenend sidewalks, narrowed lane widths, retimed signals, pedestrian refuges, and new bike lanes all contribute to slower vehicle speeds. These, more than any news article, will truly change driver behavior. Since we spent 40 years making our streets move cars as fast as possible it&#039;s going to take a fairly long time to tame them again. 

The lesson, though, is that we aren&#039;t going to merely design our streets to move any one mode as fast as possbile. Speeding bikes, buses, and cars whizzing down the street are all terrifying, and a small mistake will probably send someone to the hospital or worse. Copenhagen really got it right when they timed their lights for a steady pace of around 12 mph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say, better enforcement certainly encourages better behavior. When I stop at a red light next to a cop car, I look both ways and run it with no worry about getting a ticket. Bikers are largely ignored, probably due to the minimal safety threat we pose compared to automobiles. This logic explains why sidewalk cycling is ticketed, but running red lights isn&#8217;t. As cycling grows, you can expect that to change, particularly in crowded pedestrian areas.</p>
<p>As for PR, I kind of take this article as a positive sign. There wouldn&#8217;t be this type of article if biking was flat or on the decline. Automobile traffic certainly is delining, and streets are constantly being redesigned to improve safety and reduce auto traffic. The change is slow, but it is steady. Widenend sidewalks, narrowed lane widths, retimed signals, pedestrian refuges, and new bike lanes all contribute to slower vehicle speeds. These, more than any news article, will truly change driver behavior. Since we spent 40 years making our streets move cars as fast as possible it&#8217;s going to take a fairly long time to tame them again. </p>
<p>The lesson, though, is that we aren&#8217;t going to merely design our streets to move any one mode as fast as possbile. Speeding bikes, buses, and cars whizzing down the street are all terrifying, and a small mistake will probably send someone to the hospital or worse. Copenhagen really got it right when they timed their lights for a steady pace of around 12 mph.</p>
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		<title>By: someone</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/for-cyclists-its-a-pr-war-out-there/comment-page-1/#comment-64364</link>
		<dc:creator>someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5624#comment-64364</guid>
		<description>let me put it this way:  the day drivers are held completely accountable for their reckless behavior is they day i could tolerate holding cyclists fully responsible.  drivers are the ones licensed to be given the privilege to drive automobiles, and, as such, they are mandated to follow the rules.  now, i don&#039;t care much for rules for sake of rules, but i do care about rules for the sake of safety.  automobiles are far more destructive than bicycles, and the only way to minimize this destruction is to enforce responsible driving among motorists.  i surely don&#039;t see much of that out there.  given that situation, it often is actually safer for cyclists to break a few rules in order to protect themselves.  of course, in doing so, i wish more cyclist would take care to avoid threatening pedestrians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>let me put it this way:  the day drivers are held completely accountable for their reckless behavior is they day i could tolerate holding cyclists fully responsible.  drivers are the ones licensed to be given the privilege to drive automobiles, and, as such, they are mandated to follow the rules.  now, i don&#8217;t care much for rules for sake of rules, but i do care about rules for the sake of safety.  automobiles are far more destructive than bicycles, and the only way to minimize this destruction is to enforce responsible driving among motorists.  i surely don&#8217;t see much of that out there.  given that situation, it often is actually safer for cyclists to break a few rules in order to protect themselves.  of course, in doing so, i wish more cyclist would take care to avoid threatening pedestrians.</p>
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