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	<title>Comments on: BRT, Rail, and New York City: A Conversation With Walter Hook</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: BRT is Build Roads Today</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-151371</link>
		<dc:creator>BRT is Build Roads Today</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-151371</guid>
		<description>Many &quot;BRT&quot; projects are just a way to get additional highway and freeway lanes built.  Then no bus service materializes.

So it is an effective method of sucking up &quot;transit&quot; money and miraculously changing it into more freeways, highways and lanes for cars!

All the state Dept. of Transportation are doing it with the collusion of local public works and road authorities. It is a wonderful
way to do the same old s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many &#8220;BRT&#8221; projects are just a way to get additional highway and freeway lanes built.  Then no bus service materializes.</p>
<p>So it is an effective method of sucking up &#8220;transit&#8221; money and miraculously changing it into more freeways, highways and lanes for cars!</p>
<p>All the state Dept. of Transportation are doing it with the collusion of local public works and road authorities. It is a wonderful<br />
way to do the same old s&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-66302</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 03:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-66302</guid>
		<description>Replacing existing vehicles might be a better way of putting it.  And, since a subway train moves about 1,100 people, and the Paris Velib public system averages 10 to 12 trips per day, 100,000 vehicles making a million trips a day would definitely be mass transit, not to mention a system that is scaled up to use one million vehicles.

Without looking up the statistics, there are well over 100 million cars in this country doing something.  This sounds pretty massive to me.  Luckily, they can&#039;t all fit in New York City.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Replacing existing vehicles might be a better way of putting it.  And, since a subway train moves about 1,100 people, and the Paris Velib public system averages 10 to 12 trips per day, 100,000 vehicles making a million trips a day would definitely be mass transit, not to mention a system that is scaled up to use one million vehicles.</p>
<p>Without looking up the statistics, there are well over 100 million cars in this country doing something.  This sounds pretty massive to me.  Luckily, they can&#8217;t all fit in New York City.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-66295</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-66295</guid>
		<description>It is actually quite a stretch to imagine one million new private vehicles being added to New York City&#039;s streets. And calling it &quot;mass transit&quot; is a stretch worthy of an Olympic acrobat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is actually quite a stretch to imagine one million new private vehicles being added to New York City&#8217;s streets. And calling it &#8220;mass transit&#8221; is a stretch worthy of an Olympic acrobat.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-66293</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-66293</guid>
		<description>. . . and, if they were made locally it would likely cost a lot less and be a lot better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>. . . and, if they were made locally it would likely cost a lot less and be a lot better.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-66291</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-66291</guid>
		<description>It might not be too much of a stretch to imagine one million (or less) of the GM-Segway PUMA-like vehicles providing mass transit for New York City at an initial one-time cost of about half the annual MTA $9 billion cash outlay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might not be too much of a stretch to imagine one million (or less) of the GM-Segway PUMA-like vehicles providing mass transit for New York City at an initial one-time cost of about half the annual MTA $9 billion cash outlay.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-66290</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-66290</guid>
		<description>Regarding BRT, light rail, and current developments, it is seems that the GM-Segway PUMA would be a much better investment at about $600 million for 100,000 vehicles and broad implementation of similar hybrid human-electric vehicles would be even better.

Since the Paris Velib system averages about 10 to 12 rides per bike daily, a PUMA-based transit system based on 100,000 vehicles would provide over 1 million rides daily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding BRT, light rail, and current developments, it is seems that the GM-Segway PUMA would be a much better investment at about $600 million for 100,000 vehicles and broad implementation of similar hybrid human-electric vehicles would be even better.</p>
<p>Since the Paris Velib system averages about 10 to 12 rides per bike daily, a PUMA-based transit system based on 100,000 vehicles would provide over 1 million rides daily.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65751</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65751</guid>
		<description>Kaja, I don&#039;t know for sure where Kunstler lives.  I was basing my comment on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whitepages.com/log_feature/search_suggestion/search/FindPerson?name=kunstler&amp;city=Saratoga+Springs&amp;state_id=NY&amp;metro_area=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this listing&lt;/a&gt;.  If it&#039;s false, then my comment is invalid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaja, I don&#8217;t know for sure where Kunstler lives.  I was basing my comment on <a href="http://www.whitepages.com/log_feature/search_suggestion/search/FindPerson?name=kunstler&amp;city=Saratoga+Springs&amp;state_id=NY&amp;metro_area=1" rel="nofollow">this listing</a>.  If it&#8217;s false, then my comment is invalid.</p>
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		<title>By: garyg</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65527</link>
		<dc:creator>garyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65527</guid>
		<description>Mark Walker,

&lt;i&gt;1) Electric rail is highly sustainable. It does not require maintenance of pavements, and can be powered by anything that can be converted into electricity. &lt;/I&gt;

Urban rail transit is generally, though not always, more energy-efficient per passenger-mile than passenger cars in terms of operating energy. But constructing urban rail systems uses vast amounts of energy and is hugely expensive.   The Second Avenue subway line in New York is now expected to cost over $2 billion per mile.  The recently-opened light rail line in Phoenix cost about $70 million per mile. Railtrack, stations, vehicles, power distribution equipment (e.g., overhead wires), signalling equipment, etc. all incur continuing maintenance and repair costs.  Railtrack has a useful lifespan of about 30 years before it needs hugely expensive &quot;rehabilitation.&quot;  The Washington Metro, the Chicago CTA, and San Francisco&#039;s BART each expect to spend about $10 billion over the next decade on rehabilitation expenses.

Because rail is so expensive, there are very few urban travel routes where it is economically competitive with buses. Subways are competitive only in very dense urban cores and travel corridors.  Subway travel in the United States is dominated by just a single system - the New York subway.  Light rail is competitive in only a few more places than subways.  That is why light rail provides only about 4% of total passenger-miles of transit in the United States.  For the vast majority of routes where transit could be a viable alternative to cars at all, the only viable form of transit is buses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Walker,</p>
<p><i>1) Electric rail is highly sustainable. It does not require maintenance of pavements, and can be powered by anything that can be converted into electricity. </i></p>
<p>Urban rail transit is generally, though not always, more energy-efficient per passenger-mile than passenger cars in terms of operating energy. But constructing urban rail systems uses vast amounts of energy and is hugely expensive.   The Second Avenue subway line in New York is now expected to cost over $2 billion per mile.  The recently-opened light rail line in Phoenix cost about $70 million per mile. Railtrack, stations, vehicles, power distribution equipment (e.g., overhead wires), signalling equipment, etc. all incur continuing maintenance and repair costs.  Railtrack has a useful lifespan of about 30 years before it needs hugely expensive &#8220;rehabilitation.&#8221;  The Washington Metro, the Chicago CTA, and San Francisco&#8217;s BART each expect to spend about $10 billion over the next decade on rehabilitation expenses.</p>
<p>Because rail is so expensive, there are very few urban travel routes where it is economically competitive with buses. Subways are competitive only in very dense urban cores and travel corridors.  Subway travel in the United States is dominated by just a single system &#8211; the New York subway.  Light rail is competitive in only a few more places than subways.  That is why light rail provides only about 4% of total passenger-miles of transit in the United States.  For the vast majority of routes where transit could be a viable alternative to cars at all, the only viable form of transit is buses.</p>
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		<title>By: garyg</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65523</link>
		<dc:creator>garyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65523</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As I said in posts above, the convinction that a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone is a form of narcissism, and a terribly destructive one. This, intentionally or not, is the agenda you are pushing when you attack mass transit. &lt;/I&gt;

I don&#039;t believe a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone.  I also don&#039;t believe that people who don&#039;t use mass transit should be forced to massively subsidize the cost of providing mass transit for people who do use it.  If you want to use mass transit instead of driving or biking or whatever else it may be, fine.  But don&#039;t try to force me to pay for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>As I said in posts above, the convinction that a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone is a form of narcissism, and a terribly destructive one. This, intentionally or not, is the agenda you are pushing when you attack mass transit. </i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone.  I also don&#8217;t believe that people who don&#8217;t use mass transit should be forced to massively subsidize the cost of providing mass transit for people who do use it.  If you want to use mass transit instead of driving or biking or whatever else it may be, fine.  But don&#8217;t try to force me to pay for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65513</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65513</guid>
		<description>I googled &#039;Walk Score&#039;, punched in my former Saratoga Springs address, and got an 85. I believe Kunstler is less than two blocks from where I used to live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I googled &#8216;Walk Score&#8217;, punched in my former Saratoga Springs address, and got an 85. I believe Kunstler is less than two blocks from where I used to live.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaja</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65508</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65508</guid>
		<description>&gt; Yeah, I still don&#039;t understand why Kunstler lives in a house with a Walk Score of zero.

Incidentally, I lived in Kunstler&#039;s neighborhood for years; unless I have the spot actually wrong, that walk score is totally worthless. Saratoga Springs is perhaps the only Upstate NY communities in which you truly don&#039;t need a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Yeah, I still don&#8217;t understand why Kunstler lives in a house with a Walk Score of zero.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I lived in Kunstler&#8217;s neighborhood for years; unless I have the spot actually wrong, that walk score is totally worthless. Saratoga Springs is perhaps the only Upstate NY communities in which you truly don&#8217;t need a car.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65501</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65501</guid>
		<description>#96 Mark Walker,  &quot;As I said in posts above, the convinction that a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone is a form of narcissism, and a terribly destructive one. This, intentionally or not, is the agenda you are pushing when you attack mass transit. Not everyone wishes to use a private vehicle to traverse vastly expensive pavement. That&#039;s urban reality. Deal with it.&quot;

Response:
It must be a miniscule number of people who are &quot;forced&quot; to use cell phones.  

As said before:  If we designed cell phones the way we design transit we&#039;d have to carry them around in backpacks.

Current transit systems are local monologies because they are extremely difficult to build, modify, complex engineering, etc.  Proposed hybrid human-electric agile monorails will be a lot easier to build and likely suitable for commodification eliminating much of the monopolistic nature of current transit systems.  It is projected that neighborhoods will have a much larger say in designing their own local systems and it is likely that some will build them themselves once a transferable replicable model has been created most likely the outcome of a major industrial product design effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#96 Mark Walker,  &#8220;As I said in posts above, the convinction that a single mode of transport should be forced on everyone is a form of narcissism, and a terribly destructive one. This, intentionally or not, is the agenda you are pushing when you attack mass transit. Not everyone wishes to use a private vehicle to traverse vastly expensive pavement. That&#8217;s urban reality. Deal with it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
It must be a miniscule number of people who are &#8220;forced&#8221; to use cell phones.  </p>
<p>As said before:  If we designed cell phones the way we design transit we&#8217;d have to carry them around in backpacks.</p>
<p>Current transit systems are local monologies because they are extremely difficult to build, modify, complex engineering, etc.  Proposed hybrid human-electric agile monorails will be a lot easier to build and likely suitable for commodification eliminating much of the monopolistic nature of current transit systems.  It is projected that neighborhoods will have a much larger say in designing their own local systems and it is likely that some will build them themselves once a transferable replicable model has been created most likely the outcome of a major industrial product design effort.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65499</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65499</guid>
		<description>#96 Mark Walker, &quot;I don&#039;t spend my time trying to undermine your right to ride a bike. So why do you spend your time arguing for the destruction of the transit system on which millions of people in this city depend?&quot;

Response:
I am not trying to undermine anyone&#039;s rights.  My goal is help show how people can to take control of their own lives instead of waiting for someone out there take care of things for them.  Mobility is a crucial part of this. What is being proposed is very accessible technology.  It&#039;s the stuff of elementary school.  Practical employable skills can be taught in vocational trade schools.

I am not are arguing for the destruction of the transit system.  I am arguing for much better transit systems which will much better serve the millions of people that currently depend on transit in this city; and potentially, the billions of people globally that require good transportation and currently do not have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#96 Mark Walker, &#8220;I don&#8217;t spend my time trying to undermine your right to ride a bike. So why do you spend your time arguing for the destruction of the transit system on which millions of people in this city depend?&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
I am not trying to undermine anyone&#8217;s rights.  My goal is help show how people can to take control of their own lives instead of waiting for someone out there take care of things for them.  Mobility is a crucial part of this. What is being proposed is very accessible technology.  It&#8217;s the stuff of elementary school.  Practical employable skills can be taught in vocational trade schools.</p>
<p>I am not are arguing for the destruction of the transit system.  I am arguing for much better transit systems which will much better serve the millions of people that currently depend on transit in this city; and potentially, the billions of people globally that require good transportation and currently do not have it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65495</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65495</guid>
		<description>Gecko, thank you for your detailed and thoughtful responses. Much of what you describe seems both practical and, to my mind, beautiful. I feel that a spirited defense of transit is sometimes necessary, unless the poster is just a troll, and you clearly are on the side of the angels. I always follow your posts with interest. I hope bikers, walkers, and transit users can continue to find common ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gecko, thank you for your detailed and thoughtful responses. Much of what you describe seems both practical and, to my mind, beautiful. I feel that a spirited defense of transit is sometimes necessary, unless the poster is just a troll, and you clearly are on the side of the angels. I always follow your posts with interest. I hope bikers, walkers, and transit users can continue to find common ground.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65493</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65493</guid>
		<description>#96 Mark Walker, &quot;The belief that a single mode of transport can replace all others is mistaken. This is true many times over in the richly varied terrain of New York. Despite the many benefits of biking to both the biker and those who share the same environment, there are limits to what biking can do for many of us -- especially for vulnerable people like the elderly, small children, the disabled, and anyone who is not as physically strong as you are. Please examine your conscience: Why have you so little compassion for the weak?&quot;

Response:
Again, this will provide great transportation for the broadest spectrum of the population including the weak.  

You are challenged to provide better more practical, convenient, easy-to-use transportation than the folding recumbent tricycle -- with an electric motor assist -- on the &quot;Ideal Vehicles&quot; wiki; especially, those that can run automatically mechanically and electronically on monorail systems designed to be the new mass transit systems.  Current transit systems do not even come close to the potential accessibility (for the disabled, elderly, mothers with young children) of these new systems.

http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#96 Mark Walker, &#8220;The belief that a single mode of transport can replace all others is mistaken. This is true many times over in the richly varied terrain of New York. Despite the many benefits of biking to both the biker and those who share the same environment, there are limits to what biking can do for many of us &#8212; especially for vulnerable people like the elderly, small children, the disabled, and anyone who is not as physically strong as you are. Please examine your conscience: Why have you so little compassion for the weak?&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
Again, this will provide great transportation for the broadest spectrum of the population including the weak.  </p>
<p>You are challenged to provide better more practical, convenient, easy-to-use transportation than the folding recumbent tricycle &#8212; with an electric motor assist &#8212; on the &#8220;Ideal Vehicles&#8221; wiki; especially, those that can run automatically mechanically and electronically on monorail systems designed to be the new mass transit systems.  Current transit systems do not even come close to the potential accessibility (for the disabled, elderly, mothers with young children) of these new systems.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt" rel="nofollow">http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt</a></p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-3/#comment-65491</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65491</guid>
		<description>#99 Mark Walker, &quot;I have absolutely no doubt that bikes are more desirable and efficient road users than cars, in that they weigh less and cause less damage to the road. But even if not a single ounce of humanity or vehicle travels over a road, the weather will still destroy it. And the peak oil scenario makes it likely that the constant repaving of roads may not be possible, on the current scale, in the future, because it requires vast amounts of fossil fuel both for the road surface and for the diesel-powered machinery required by the task. Thus the need for rail, which can run off any form of energy, and requires less maintenance than asphalt.&quot;

Response:
Proposed hybrid human-electric agile monorail systems address exactly what you are talking about.  This will likely start out essentially as an advanced public bicycle system using hybrid human-electric recumbent vehicles with real seats suitable for the broadest spectrum of the population including those who require wheelchairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#99 Mark Walker, &#8220;I have absolutely no doubt that bikes are more desirable and efficient road users than cars, in that they weigh less and cause less damage to the road. But even if not a single ounce of humanity or vehicle travels over a road, the weather will still destroy it. And the peak oil scenario makes it likely that the constant repaving of roads may not be possible, on the current scale, in the future, because it requires vast amounts of fossil fuel both for the road surface and for the diesel-powered machinery required by the task. Thus the need for rail, which can run off any form of energy, and requires less maintenance than asphalt.&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
Proposed hybrid human-electric agile monorail systems address exactly what you are talking about.  This will likely start out essentially as an advanced public bicycle system using hybrid human-electric recumbent vehicles with real seats suitable for the broadest spectrum of the population including those who require wheelchairs.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-2/#comment-65490</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65490</guid>
		<description>#94 Mark Walker:  &quot;You have also missed my point about hypermobility, which is that reducing the need for mobility is the best energy saver. And I&#039;ll offer an example. Here&#039;s my commute: I get out of bed, walk from my bedroom to my livingroom, and turn on the computer. You can fiddle the numbers all you want, but you&#039;ll never convince me that my commute uses less energy than yours. And that would be almost equally true if I commuted to an office building in my neighborhood.&quot;

Response:
We are in total agreement on this.  (Though, I think you did not write what you meant:  &quot;. . . please consider the possibility that what&#039;s unsustainable is hypermobility.&quot;)  Electronic communication is extremely sustainable technology as described by Ivan Illich in his book &quot;Tools of Conviviality&quot;.

The really interesting part is that electronic communications and transportation often go hand-in-hand -- the telegraph replaced the pony express overnight -- and, are starting to play a pivotal role in public bicycle systems and likely even more so in advanced public bicycle systems.  The cost structures and business model are similar and may have synergies as mentioned in the Streetsblog.org &quot;Ideal Vehicles&quot; wiki and there are certain advantages for providers like Verizon and technology companies like IBM to get into the act by justifying the potential for increased revenue from selling additional services, applications, and electronic technology. 

http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt

In many ways, the cell phone is the closest thing we currently have to the &quot;Star Trek&quot; tricorder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#94 Mark Walker:  &#8220;You have also missed my point about hypermobility, which is that reducing the need for mobility is the best energy saver. And I&#8217;ll offer an example. Here&#8217;s my commute: I get out of bed, walk from my bedroom to my livingroom, and turn on the computer. You can fiddle the numbers all you want, but you&#8217;ll never convince me that my commute uses less energy than yours. And that would be almost equally true if I commuted to an office building in my neighborhood.&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
We are in total agreement on this.  (Though, I think you did not write what you meant:  &#8220;. . . please consider the possibility that what&#8217;s unsustainable is hypermobility.&#8221;)  Electronic communication is extremely sustainable technology as described by Ivan Illich in his book &#8220;Tools of Conviviality&#8221;.</p>
<p>The really interesting part is that electronic communications and transportation often go hand-in-hand &#8212; the telegraph replaced the pony express overnight &#8212; and, are starting to play a pivotal role in public bicycle systems and likely even more so in advanced public bicycle systems.  The cost structures and business model are similar and may have synergies as mentioned in the Streetsblog.org &#8220;Ideal Vehicles&#8221; wiki and there are certain advantages for providers like Verizon and technology companies like IBM to get into the act by justifying the potential for increased revenue from selling additional services, applications, and electronic technology. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt" rel="nofollow">http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zero-vmt</a></p>
<p>In many ways, the cell phone is the closest thing we currently have to the &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; tricorder.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-2/#comment-65485</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65485</guid>
		<description>Gecko, thanks. I stand enlightened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gecko, thanks. I stand enlightened.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-2/#comment-65484</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65484</guid>
		<description>#94 Mark Walker:  &quot;How is it possible for a person and a vehicle (the bike) to be more efficient than a person traveling without a vehicle? I have a feeling it has to do with the physical efficiency of the wheel, but please provide some documentation for this.&quot;


Response:
Cyclists normally sit so, this saves energy.  Also the dynamics of cycling transfers more energy for travel in the forward direction rather the up and down motion of walking and running and other energy expenditures not directly related to travel. Recumbent bikes with fairing are more efficient than conventional bikes. 

&quot;The data show that for the same breathing rate, the bicyclist&#039;s speed is about four times that of a walker.&quot;  Bicycling Science 3rd Edition, David Gordon Wilson, Page 162

Reference:

Bicycling Science 3rd Edition, David Gordon Wilson, Page 162
Publisher: MIT Press
Pub. Date: April 2004
ISBN-13: 9780262731546
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&amp;EAN=9780262731546&amp;itm=1#TABS


David Gordon Wilson
http://meche.mit.edu/people/emeritus/index.html?id=98</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#94 Mark Walker:  &#8220;How is it possible for a person and a vehicle (the bike) to be more efficient than a person traveling without a vehicle? I have a feeling it has to do with the physical efficiency of the wheel, but please provide some documentation for this.&#8221;</p>
<p>Response:<br />
Cyclists normally sit so, this saves energy.  Also the dynamics of cycling transfers more energy for travel in the forward direction rather the up and down motion of walking and running and other energy expenditures not directly related to travel. Recumbent bikes with fairing are more efficient than conventional bikes. </p>
<p>&#8220;The data show that for the same breathing rate, the bicyclist&#8217;s speed is about four times that of a walker.&#8221;  Bicycling Science 3rd Edition, David Gordon Wilson, Page 162</p>
<p>Reference:</p>
<p>Bicycling Science 3rd Edition, David Gordon Wilson, Page 162<br />
Publisher: MIT Press<br />
Pub. Date: April 2004<br />
ISBN-13: 9780262731546<br />
<a href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&#038;EAN=9780262731546&#038;itm=1#TABS" rel="nofollow">http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&#038;EAN=9780262731546&#038;itm=1#TABS</a></p>
<p>David Gordon Wilson<br />
<a href="http://meche.mit.edu/people/emeritus/index.html?id=98" rel="nofollow">http://meche.mit.edu/people/emeritus/index.html?id=98</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/24/brt-rail-and-new-york-city-a-conversation-with-walter-hook/comment-page-2/#comment-65482</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5480#comment-65482</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I still don&#039;t understand why Kunstler lives in a house with a Walk Score of zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I still don&#8217;t understand why Kunstler lives in a house with a Walk Score of zero.</p>
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