I think people in NY are more aware (through travel, cultural exchange) of how other countries have built faster and faster rail within popular and well-funded regional and national railroad networks. They don't have "high-speed rail" as much as they have modern, cultivated rail of many speeds. Meanwhile, in America, everything about the political process that produced this lopsided allotment screams amateur hour, from Obama's campaign droppings of "HSR" (with no specifics) to the hazy definition of the phrase itself.

I am hoping for a bait-and-switch that speeds train travel to upstate New York and other regions that will make good use of any service upgrade.

I'm all for HSR over regional jets.

Interesting to note though, James Howard Kunstler mentioned that you could once travel pretty long distances across the country on streetcars alone -- that's how extensive and connected the electric rail system was circa 1900-1920.

I am surprised to see all the opposition to HSR on this blog. I thought people in NY were ahead of people in CA when it came to transportation.

This CA system could be the beginning of a huge change in direction of the national transportation system, adding HSR into a mix that is now just airlines and freeways.

The total cost of the system is supposed to be $32 billion, and they are hoping for more funding from the federal government and private investors. This stimulus provision will help.

The balance is much better than past federal funding:
# $29 billion for highways and bridges
# $17.7 billion for transit and rail
while the traditional split has been 80-20.

As I have said before, you cannot expect very dramatic change in a stimulus bill passed in a rush to deal with an economic crisis, so this balance is better than I expected.

Hopefully, we will do even better when TEA reauthorization comes up.

(PS: when I said HSR from San Francisco to Los Angeles, I was giving the NY perspective on the route - like the Steinberg cartoon where there is nothing west of the rockies except SF and LA. For more precise info, google California High Speed Rail)

You know what'd be nice though? Subway stations in New York and Chicago that weren't complete shitholes

Niccolo,

I agree. I'd rather see the 8 bln used to fix existing transit.

What drove this legislation was the same Federal political dynamics that have screwed AMTRAK over since its inception. The need for national consensus in the Senate forces fiscal largesse into travel markets where the operation of trains is very problematic, due in large part to population density (or lack thereof). When the localities have to pitch in to support the operation of these systems the political pressure from the states and localities cuts funding for operating budgets. There is much greater resistance on the state and local level.

What we have is a mass transit system in crisis throughout the country from suburban bus systems to commuter rail to urban mass transit to AMTRAK. Onto this budget crisis this bill grafts 8 Billion in capital funds for an entirely different system that does not exist. Meanwhile the riders of the existing system (mostly actual poor people) are left to fend for themselves.

I guess this is a "change".

We have been funding high-speed rail development (okay, 110 mph medium-speed rail, but still) on our own for years, being ignored by the feds. We have fast-growing intercity rail ridership and transit ridership is growing.

You already have the Acela and NEC, so you don't need HSR to link your cities for business and tourism travel at better than auto speeds dozens of time each day. We do. We want better access to the NEC ourselves. We'd like you to come visit us. College basketball season is a blast down here.

And every additional time I can take a train to do business or visit friends in Charlotte, Richmond, Greensboro, or DC, I'm more likely to take transit once I arrive because I didn't have to use a car to get to the city in the first place.

BTW, the HSR we are working on will incorporate a bike facility that is hundreds of miles long - how's that for multimodal?

This bill really helps us get there. We want to win on transit, too. Let's gear up for SAFETEA-LU reauthorization and get started now pushing for more transit.

I too, will wretch if Vegas gets money first. The core of the CA projects, VA/NC, and the Midwest are where the money should be going for these projects.

The money could be restricted to high-speed rail of the TGV kind - as currently planned by California - which builds completely new tracks on new right-of-way that is unavailable to any other trains. But even that has some "last mile" improvements to get the high-speed trains to existing stations, and many high-speed passengers will probably ride transit or regional rail to get to and from the high-speed trains, boosting ridership.

What's more likely is that much of the infrastructure built for "high speed" trains will be usable by conventional passenger trains and commuter trains. People are already talking about using the stimulus money to rebuild the second track between Albany and Schenectady. And does the Portal Bridge used by the Acela trains count towards our high-speed network? So this $8 billion could potentially improve not just the travel time from LA to San Francisco, but also from Albany to Schenectady and Penn Station to Newark.

The winners - political, pocket lining, profiteering casinos (who should pay for most of it) and the mega-contractors that will hire the questionably credentialed low cost construction labor (now idle) waiting to build it. And its not really a fair deal for California either, as the only jobs that will be supported by this massive boondoggle will ultimately be IN NEVADA - they have always been on the 'receiving end' of the relationship. Dollars flow ONE WAY. These jobs are of the VERY LOW paying hotel and restaurant variety. Sorry is true. This line isn't about investing in our future or the new green economy. It'll be a line that's used on Friday and Sunday nights - and will be empty every other day of the week. There will be very little benefit to the national economy long term. And the only noise you are going to hear is that sucking sound of dollars leaving California.

Don't expect airlines to take this one laying down either. Vegas is all ready volume business. And once can't imagine how airlines make a dime. Flights between the cities are are less than 60 minutes and are virtually FREE right now ($60 each way) with nothing but capacity in this city pair with 737 flights every 20 minutes (on multiple carriers!).

Look, we have all ready wasted BILLIONS paving the desert sands and building the grandest airport cathedral of the desert (McCarran Int'l airport) all so Angelinos can go blow their home equity lines at the craps tables.

Worse, this project is not even on the State of California's radar for diesel service!!!! If this gets any more than 'planning money' for a private-public partnership I'm going to throw up. This better not be payback to Harry Reid for those 5 electoral votes.

Surely he'll fight for maglev from LA to Vegas (as opposed to the CA plan recently approved by CA voters).

>So how many miles of HSR does $8,000,000,000 build? Is that SF to Bakersfield?

No. JFK to Wall Street. Or ten five mile stubs starting and ending in cornfields and Walmart parking lots.