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	<title>Comments on: Rally Wednesday for Tougher Idling Regs Near Schools</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62865</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62865</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, Zipcar replied promptly, and with appreciation of my complaint, and a statement that they&#039;d take action, after I emailed them complaining about the promo event I describe in my comment above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, Zipcar replied promptly, and with appreciation of my complaint, and a statement that they&#8217;d take action, after I emailed them complaining about the promo event I describe in my comment above.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Steiner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62243</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Steiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62243</guid>
		<description>Note in some places in Europe, e.g., Switzerland, you have to turn off the engine even when stopping in front of a red light or a railroad crossings (with some exception for the one in front) ..... ! In the context of these laws, which were enacted probably more than 20 years ago, most myths such as increased pollution, drastically reduced engine life, etc. have been convincingly debunked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note in some places in Europe, e.g., Switzerland, you have to turn off the engine even when stopping in front of a red light or a railroad crossings (with some exception for the one in front) &#8230;.. ! In the context of these laws, which were enacted probably more than 20 years ago, most myths such as increased pollution, drastically reduced engine life, etc. have been convincingly debunked.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Mork</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62230</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Mork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62230</guid>
		<description>Good news, Nanterking, there&#039;s a study:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
If you believed the myth that restarting takes more fuel than idling, the myth is busted.
Our research showed a V6 restart takes about the same fuel as 5 seconds of idling.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://sections.asme.org/florida/ASME%20Fla%20Section%20Virtual%20Mythbusters.html

That&#039;s the American Society of Mechanical Engineers Florida Section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good news, Nanterking, there&#8217;s a study:</p>
<blockquote><p>
If you believed the myth that restarting takes more fuel than idling, the myth is busted.<br />
Our research showed a V6 restart takes about the same fuel as 5 seconds of idling.
</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://sections.asme.org/florida/ASME%20Fla%20Section%20Virtual%20Mythbusters.html" rel="nofollow">http://sections.asme.org/florida/ASME%20Fla%20Section%20Virtual%20Mythbusters.html</a></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the American Society of Mechanical Engineers Florida Section.</p>
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		<title>By: nanterking</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62227</link>
		<dc:creator>nanterking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62227</guid>
		<description>So, Rhywun, they should never do so, eh?  I take it you&#039;d prefer to have them turn the vehicle off and generate more emissions by restarting it than let it idle for 30 seconds to retrieve something.

Sweeping generalizations.  Gotta love them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Rhywun, they should never do so, eh?  I take it you&#8217;d prefer to have them turn the vehicle off and generate more emissions by restarting it than let it idle for 30 seconds to retrieve something.</p>
<p>Sweeping generalizations.  Gotta love them.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62220</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62220</guid>
		<description>BicyclesOnly - Intro. 2007-631 as linked above contains proposed changes to the existing law §24-163. Those changes are underlined while the non-underlined text is the current law. There doesn&#039;t seem to be much distinction between passenger and commercial vehicles. As far as I know the three minute limit applies to both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BicyclesOnly &#8211; Intro. 2007-631 as linked above contains proposed changes to the existing law §24-163. Those changes are underlined while the non-underlined text is the current law. There doesn&#8217;t seem to be much distinction between passenger and commercial vehicles. As far as I know the three minute limit applies to both.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Wiley-Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62218</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Wiley-Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62218</guid>
		<description>Starting in 2005, there was an agreement reached between the 9 major bus companies and schools to reduce idling time to one minute.  In fact, in 2007, Governor Spitzer signed the following bill. 

&quot;State law already restricts bus and truck idling to no more than five consecutive minutes. This legislation authorizes the Commissioner of Education to require that school buses to be turned off while waiting for passengers to load or unload on school grounds or in front of schools, unless idling is necessary for heating, mechanical or emergency conditions. The Commissioner of Education must promulgate these regulations by July 1, 2008.&quot;

If you think about it 3 minutes is hard to enforce because you have to count all three minutes - but if you show up to ticket someone for idling and there is a one-minute regulation, you can go 60 seconds and ticket then.  5 minutes is out of control and you might want to consider encouraging Fieldston to speak to their operators.  I find that schools will do many things in the spirit of &quot;going green&quot; these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starting in 2005, there was an agreement reached between the 9 major bus companies and schools to reduce idling time to one minute.  In fact, in 2007, Governor Spitzer signed the following bill. </p>
<p>&#8220;State law already restricts bus and truck idling to no more than five consecutive minutes. This legislation authorizes the Commissioner of Education to require that school buses to be turned off while waiting for passengers to load or unload on school grounds or in front of schools, unless idling is necessary for heating, mechanical or emergency conditions. The Commissioner of Education must promulgate these regulations by July 1, 2008.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you think about it 3 minutes is hard to enforce because you have to count all three minutes &#8211; but if you show up to ticket someone for idling and there is a one-minute regulation, you can go 60 seconds and ticket then.  5 minutes is out of control and you might want to consider encouraging Fieldston to speak to their operators.  I find that schools will do many things in the spirit of &#8220;going green&#8221; these days.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62217</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62217</guid>
		<description>Yes, Stacy, the school buses are the worst because their exhaust is so full of particles.  

The school buses operated by private schools do pickups at each door, and seem to be required to wait 5 minutes before leaving without their little charges.  Due to a hydrant right next to the cityrack on my block, there is a big curbside space right in front of where I lock up.  Many mornings, there is a a full-size school bus waiting for tardy Fieldston students that&#039;s blowing extra-chunky diesel exhaust in our faces as we unlock.  But I&#039;d be pleased to see the problem at the schools addressed as a first step. 

As far as enforcing what&#039;s on the books, I had always thought the existing three minute law applies only to commercial vehicles.  Am I wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Stacy, the school buses are the worst because their exhaust is so full of particles.  </p>
<p>The school buses operated by private schools do pickups at each door, and seem to be required to wait 5 minutes before leaving without their little charges.  Due to a hydrant right next to the cityrack on my block, there is a big curbside space right in front of where I lock up.  Many mornings, there is a a full-size school bus waiting for tardy Fieldston students that&#8217;s blowing extra-chunky diesel exhaust in our faces as we unlock.  But I&#8217;d be pleased to see the problem at the schools addressed as a first step. </p>
<p>As far as enforcing what&#8217;s on the books, I had always thought the existing three minute law applies only to commercial vehicles.  Am I wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62205</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62205</guid>
		<description>Would the one minute idling law apply to school busses which are probably among the worst offenders? How would drivers know they were near a school? Would it require the City to make more signs?  Seems to me it would make far more sense (and $$$ for the City) to simply enforce the three minute law that&#039;s currently on the books. We don&#039;t need new laws unless we&#039;re prepared to actively enforce them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would the one minute idling law apply to school busses which are probably among the worst offenders? How would drivers know they were near a school? Would it require the City to make more signs?  Seems to me it would make far more sense (and $$$ for the City) to simply enforce the three minute law that&#8217;s currently on the books. We don&#8217;t need new laws unless we&#8217;re prepared to actively enforce them.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62203</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62203</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2320558165/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Some schools&lt;/a&gt; have recognized that they don&#039;t need the legislation to deliver this message to idling parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicyclesonly/2320558165/" rel="nofollow">Some schools</a> have recognized that they don&#8217;t need the legislation to deliver this message to idling parents.</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62202</link>
		<dc:creator>ddartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62202</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very happy about Garodnick&#039;s bill.


This morning outside my building, Zipcar was doing some promotion, complete with green zipcar flags and hired barkers handing out brochures.  

the main barker guy was saying stuff like &quot;eco friendly!&quot;  Meanwhile, the zipcar they had there as part of the event was sitting there parked and empty with its engine running.  

(I told him that that&#039;s not &quot;eco-friendly&quot; or legal, and he said something like &quot;I&#039;ll take that into account&quot; or some crap.  Felt like calling the cops.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very happy about Garodnick&#8217;s bill.</p>
<p>This morning outside my building, Zipcar was doing some promotion, complete with green zipcar flags and hired barkers handing out brochures.  </p>
<p>the main barker guy was saying stuff like &#8220;eco friendly!&#8221;  Meanwhile, the zipcar they had there as part of the event was sitting there parked and empty with its engine running.  </p>
<p>(I told him that that&#8217;s not &#8220;eco-friendly&#8221; or legal, and he said something like &#8220;I&#8217;ll take that into account&#8221; or some crap.  Felt like calling the cops.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rhywun</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/27/rally-wednesday-for-tougher-idling-regs-near-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-62197</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5339#comment-62197</guid>
		<description>A driver should not exit a vehicle and leave it running--period. There is no excuse for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A driver should not exit a vehicle and leave it running&#8211;period. There is no excuse for that.</p>
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