I had the same thought today when reading an article about all the trees that were damaged or destroyed in Central Park last night during the thunderstorm. Why is the only way to contribute financially to this problem to give money to a private corporation, the Central Park Conservancy (as several people who wrote comments said they were going to do)? You wanna talk about the city not paying for the upkeep of its private (& pedestrian) spaces -- let's start with Central Park.

With a sand base you also have a water-permeable surface which takes care of urban water run-off problems, and construction crews needing to access pipes/wires under the road need only to pick the bricks up and then put them back where they came from.

Yes, they can be easily removed for construction, and other operations, too.

Of course, the plaza in question is paved with Belgian blocks.

Simple solution for that. Pave it with paving bricks instead. Bricks won't need any maintinence for at least 50 years. Even then, you only have to replace the bricks that have cracked. With this simple maintinence you easily get 100 years or more without any major re-build. There are brick roads in Annap., MD that are 300 years old. And it doesn't have to be slipery or bumpy either. Actual paving bricks can have a nice grip to them, and it turns out nice and smooth with some attention to the base layer (sand and/or concrete). With a sand base you also have a water-permeable surface which takes care of urban water run-off problems, and construction crews needing to access pipes/wires under the road need only to pick the bricks up and then put them back where they came from.

"It is unacceptable for me to hear people say they think it's okay that it's hard to get to the Meatpacking District."

Hard to get to? David Rabin's windshield mentality is sadly misplaced. The A, C, E and L trains stop just one block away at 8th Avenue and 14th Street, while the 1, 2 and 3 trains stops just two blocks away, at 7th Avenue and 14th Street. It's only hard to get to if you're trying to drive there in one of those absurd Hummer stretch limos, like the one in the center of the photo at top.

Frankly, it's unacceptable for me to hear people say that cars should be given priority in a dense and transit-friendly urban environment.

The plazas unequivocally made the area more pleasant for pedestrians. The most obvious change was that crossing 9th Ave on the north side of 14th and near Little W 12th / Gansevoort became an easy, pleasant experience instead of something harrowing. The outdoor seating gave the area a more pleasant, relaxed feel during the warmer months.

Unfortunately, I think area restauranteurs and other business owners will have difficulty separating the impact of the economic downturn from the pedestrian plazas - traffic control makes an easy scapegoat for cooling business.

I hope DOT, area residents and the MPDI can work together to make the plazas work (even if the aesthetics have to be improved).

In reality, the city *doesn't* pay for the upkeep of facilities for motorists. At current expenditure levels, streets will be repaved only every 20 years and reconstructed only every 300 years. The best practice is to reconstruct every 30-50 years.

Cheers,

--Ian

How would letting cars drive around on the inside of a mall affect sales, compared to making cars park at the outside edges of th mall as we do now?

We know. We've all seen The Blues Brothers.

This is what a Plaza can look like!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2773384445/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2774231482/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/3029744799/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jensenpernille/2883115322/

Flex-zone from reclaimed parking
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2978182381/

On-street bike parking
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2917516713/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2760974540/

Bikes and Buses - Car free Nørrebrogade.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2966931503/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2898495842/

Red (bus), White (ped), and Blue (bike).
Now that's patriotic!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2954368334/

Rush hour with pro-bike Urban Policy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/2967760786/

Since American suburban malls seek to replicate the historic shopping distric experience, helps to think of a shopping plaza like the inside of a mall, except without the roof. (speaking of which, a pop-up tent and outdoor gas heater would go a long way towards improving that plaza in January). How would letting cars drive around on the inside of a mall affect sales, compared to making cars park at the outside edges of th mall as we do now? This is what Rabin means by - "Cabs can come to the outskirts of the neighborhood but not to the middle ...the concept that people can drive wherever and whenever they want is over... You're going to kill business with the old way of thinking".

A network of grade-separated bike tracks connecting pedestrian shopping centers with public plazas where people want to linger, and auto access limited to the perimeter, is a recipie for a cash cow.

All the best,
Annie

Where are you photos of the plaza when there isn't snow on the ground? It's easy to show a picture of a pedestrian plaza that's empty in January and say that the space is a failure. Since I rode my bike around there in the spring and found it lovely I can't say I'm convinced.

I don't even know what to say to the rest of your complaints. I can imagine that it must be awful to be taken by surprise by a design process started by PPS in 2005. But sarcasm aside, the idea that a the primary group representing local business in this neighborhood got steamrolled by city agencies that often move slower than the M34 at rush hour says more about your organization than it does about the plaza.

Your hysterical story about raising tens of thousands of dollars in a matter of weeks suggests to me that your members have deep pockets(when they want to) and that at the end of the day it would be possible to develop an effective public private entity to deal with the plazas. However, since you chose option C, complain and do nothing I feel no sympthaty for you or your group. Public spaces are not, and should not be designed to make life easier for local businesses(who can afford some seriously expsensive rents). Public plazas are for the public to enjoy. If you want to change the plaza's suggest some changes. I guess you were too busy raising tens thousands of dollars.

I think the City probably felt(as I do) that providing a place for people to hang out near local businesses is great investment in the neighborhood and those businesses. I cannot understand why local businsses are so opposed to the idea of new spaces filled with people near their business.

@MePaGal

The street furniture is temporary.

Finally, if commenters feel "short-sighted self-interest" is hampering this project, which they think is so great, perhaps they would be willing to send a contribution to the MPDI to sustain it. Money talks, BS walks.

I'd love to send a donation to maintain and improve these public spaces but I don't think I'd send my money to the MPDI. Based on the testimony above, it doesn't sound like the organization is really trying to figure out how to make this new public space work. It sounds like they are just complaining and trying to move us back to a time when Gansevoort was just a nasty free-for-all for honking motor vehicles and Hummer limos. I'd send MPDI $1,000/year if I heard even the smallest amount of creativity or can-do spirit coming out of them. There are obviously many different ways to configure and manage this public space.

Were you at the same meeting I was? Pro-DOT people were outnumbered by the DOT opposition by far, maybe 4 to 1. Perhaps your confusion arose from the fact that the chair of the committee was calling on people she knew supported this project.

Also, none of the "residents" actually live in the Meat Packing district. Only about 20 people live there and none that I know attended. Indeed, "residents" were trolled in from the Village (or streetsblog) to act as shills.

Furthermore, that street furniture looks like it came right out of Teletubbies set.

Finally, if commenters feel "short-sighted self-interest" is hampering this project, which they think is so great, perhaps they would be willing to send a contribution to the MPDI to sustain it. Money talks, BS walks.

http://web.me.com/anniewashburn/Site_2/Photos_GANSEVOORT.html