Comments on: Bridge Tolls or Fare Hikes? The Voice of the People Says… http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Josh http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61530 Josh Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:20:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61530 "Since there's less people on the road, they should pay" is not tremendously good logic, if you ask me. “Since there’s less people on the road, they should pay” is not tremendously good logic, if you ask me.

]]> By: Respect the Past http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61521 Respect the Past Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:49:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61521 Voters feel that their tax dollar are many times improperly spent. A lot of times this is rightfully so. I think that the most politically feasible solution would involve a revenue neutral car tolling - toll vehicles and use the proceeds to lower income taxes. Yes, this would exacerbate the problem of overcrowded subways (possible solution listed further below), but at the very least, it would start creating the right economic incentives to align with the negative externalities related to driving. Otherwise, I believe that for a short window, we might be able to pass this if it is clearly communicated to voters that service cuts will cease if these tolls are put into place. Combining this with a rush hour subway "congestion tax, as in the Kheel 2 plan, could lead to a much better system, which could be politically feasible. Yet, I worry that Bloomberg (despite my admiration for his public policy courage), due to his upcoming re-election is afraid of upsetting outer borough residents; therefore, I would be surprised if he would make a big, direct push from for bridge tolls. Voters feel that their tax dollar are many times improperly spent. A lot of times this is rightfully so. I think that the most politically feasible solution would involve a revenue neutral car tolling – toll vehicles and use the proceeds to lower income taxes. Yes, this would exacerbate the problem of overcrowded subways (possible solution listed further below), but at the very least, it would start creating the right economic incentives to align with the negative externalities related to driving.

Otherwise, I believe that for a short window, we might be able to pass this if it is clearly communicated to voters that service cuts will cease if these tolls are put into place. Combining this with a rush hour subway “congestion tax, as in the Kheel 2 plan, could lead to a much better system, which could be politically feasible.

Yet, I worry that Bloomberg (despite my admiration for his public policy courage), due to his upcoming re-election is afraid of upsetting outer borough residents; therefore, I would be surprised if he would make a big, direct push from for bridge tolls.

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61508 Rhywun Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:07:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61508 Plus, politicians only listen to people in a position to "help" them the most, i.e. businesspeople and wealthier residents (potential donors), who naturally are a minority of their constituency. That is why their positions (like supporting the "carriage trade" on Nostrand Avenue over the vastly larger needs of pedestrians and bus riders) seem to make no sense to normal people. Plus, politicians only listen to people in a position to “help” them the most, i.e. businesspeople and wealthier residents (potential donors), who naturally are a minority of their constituency. That is why their positions (like supporting the “carriage trade” on Nostrand Avenue over the vastly larger needs of pedestrians and bus riders) seem to make no sense to normal people.

]]> By: fdr http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61498 fdr Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:16:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61498 "was taking a purely demagoguic political stand based on what she perceives her narrow swath of voters would think about this. Crazy." Why is that crazy? If she's right about what she perceives "her narrow swath of voters would think about this" then it's going to help her get re-elected. That's all that matters to her. “was taking a purely demagoguic political stand based on what she perceives her narrow swath of voters would think about this. Crazy.”
Why is that crazy? If she’s right about what she perceives “her narrow swath of voters would think about this” then it’s going to help her get re-elected. That’s all that matters to her.

]]> By: Gapco http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61493 Gapco Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:15:51 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61493 It's not like we are asking politicians to have the political courage to take an unpopular stand. Tolling the bridges - if it meant a lower fare increase - would be tremendously popular among voters, at least in the portions of the outer boroughs closest to those bridges. The crazy thing is, the representatives (city, state, and local) don't realize this, that supporting tolls would be a popular stand - they equate any toll or tax that they authorize with unpopularity (that's why they prefer MTA fare increases: they don't have to vote for them!) and refuse to get acquainted with the particulars of the issue. Just the other night, a councilwoman from eastern Crown Heights and Brownsville (most recently in the news for her vote switch on term limits) stood up at a community board meeting and decried Bus Rapid Transit on Nostrand Avenue as harmful to local business. It was obvious that she did not have the first clue about the particulars of the issue, and was taking a purely demagoguic political stand based on what she perceives her narrow swath of voters would think about this. Crazy. It’s not like we are asking politicians to have the political courage to take an unpopular stand. Tolling the bridges – if it meant a lower fare increase – would be tremendously popular among voters, at least in the portions of the outer boroughs closest to those bridges.

The crazy thing is, the representatives (city, state, and local) don’t realize this, that supporting tolls would be a popular stand – they equate any toll or tax that they authorize with unpopularity (that’s why they prefer MTA fare increases: they don’t have to vote for them!) and refuse to get acquainted with the particulars of the issue.

Just the other night, a councilwoman from eastern Crown Heights and Brownsville (most recently in the news for her vote switch on term limits) stood up at a community board meeting and decried Bus Rapid Transit on Nostrand Avenue as harmful to local business. It was obvious that she did not have the first clue about the particulars of the issue, and was taking a purely demagoguic political stand based on what she perceives her narrow swath of voters would think about this. Crazy.

]]> By: Rhywun http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61487 Rhywun Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:26:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61487 > Our elected officials know that to vote for it risks their re-election. Not if New Yorkers decided to vote in their own self-interest for a change. > why is every street in the city packed with cars Because cars tend to fill up whatever space you make available to them. New Yorkers "love" cars as much as other Americans, but obviously there isn't enough space for everyone to have one, nor is there the need. > Our elected officials know that to vote for it risks their re-election.

Not if New Yorkers decided to vote in their own self-interest for a change.

> why is every street in the city packed with cars

Because cars tend to fill up whatever space you make available to them. New Yorkers “love” cars as much as other Americans, but obviously there isn’t enough space for everyone to have one, nor is there the need.

]]> By: Susan Donovan http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61482 Susan Donovan Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:55:42 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61482 "do you think they pause at all to consider who they're speaking for?" NO. “do you think they pause at all to consider who they’re speaking for?”

NO.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61481 Cap'n Transit Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:17:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61481 Because they TAKE UP SO MUCH DAMN SPACE! Because they TAKE UP SO MUCH DAMN SPACE!

]]> By: Nicholas http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61480 Nicholas Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:13:22 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61480 East River bridge tolls are dead politically. Our elected officials know that to vote for it risks their re-election. If New Yorkers are supposed to hate cars so much then why is every street in the city packed with cars, even in "greenie" neighborhoods like Park Slope? East River bridge tolls are dead politically. Our elected officials know that to vote for it risks their re-election.

If New Yorkers are supposed to hate cars so much then why is every street in the city packed with cars, even in “greenie” neighborhoods like Park Slope?

]]> By: Ian W. http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61477 Ian W. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:04:46 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61477 Damn, oscar beat me to it. Damn, oscar beat me to it.

]]> By: oscar http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/bridge-tolls-or-fare-hikes-the-voice-of-the-people-says/comment-page-1/#comment-61475 oscar Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:42:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5232#comment-61475 they're speaking for themselves they’re speaking for themselves

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