I am against all forms of public surveillance, whether by the government or corporations.

> It’s not clear to me how you would use cameras for automated
> enforcement of jaywalking

Oh, I just threw that out there as a ridiculous example of slippery slope. The fact is, we ARE watched, we are used to it, and one day we’re going to be in for a rude surprise when we find out what the government and/or corporations are going to do with it.

> Care to elaborate?

I already mentioned a couple things. Better education, and higher fines. Is it as effective? Probably not, but it beats cameras.

There are currently no restrictions on government surveillance cameras in New York City. Times Square alone is estimated to have around 1000 public and private surveillance cameras, and the NYPD continues to install others throughout the city. Since installation of these cameras is an ongoing reality, I assume you are fighting them with even more vigor than you give to automated enforcement cameras. Is this the case?

It’s not clear to me how you would use cameras for automated enforcement of jaywalking, since pedestrians are not required (and could not be constitutionally required) to present external identification, and robust facial recognition remains an unsolved computer science problem. Even if it were possible, though, the reality remains that with automated enforcement cameras (and unlike regular surveillance cameras), there is an easy way to avoid having your picture taken — just follow the law.

Finally, I would be interested to hear more details on your suggestion that “there are other ways to approach this problem that are just as effective.” Care to elaborate?

Nope. I’m standing up for a principle: no cameras. Just because it’s ostensibly for a good purpose now, doesn’t mean they won’t extend the idea in the future to punish us for other things they don’t like. As I said before, there are other ways to approach this problem that are just as effective and don’t involve the government keeping snapshots of you and your car in its databases.

PS. I don’t drive; so don’t think I have some sort of nefarious goal here.

Opponents of the red light cameras like to point out that revenue raised by red light cameras in other cities has declined significantly after six months. Of course they fail to point out that this fall in tickets is due to drivers awareness of red light cameras and their new found compliance with the traffic law.

Anyone who contributes to fewer red light cameras on our streets is directly contributing to higher traffic fatalities. I hope they are strong enough shoulder the moral responsibility that this entails. They are directly morally culpable and we, as a society, should hold them accountable.

Given the huge number of cameras already out there, the NYPD’s inability or unwillingness to do traffic enforcement and the incredible amount of illegal and dangerous motorist activity that we endure on a daily basis, the slippery slope argument is simply ridiculous. As noted above, even the NYCLU is in favor of automated traffic enforcement.

If you want to talk about a slippery slope, let’s talk about the slippery slope of allowing motor vehicles to dominate virtually every inch of our city’s public streets. We’re pretty much at the bottom of that particular slope. Automated traffic enforcement helps us take a few steps back up the hill.

But vehicles don’t get fined–people do. Also, lots of stuff happens without ACLU approval. I’m sure they don’t approve of the thousands of cameras that already litter the streets of NYC, but they’re there and they’re used to identify people all the time.

Indulging your slippery slope scenario — jaywalking cameras would never pass muster with civil liberties advocates because the mechanism would have to identify people. More to the point — real world automated enforcement measures, like the bus cam legislation that was floated earlier this year, have the blessing of groups like NYCLU because the cameras identify the offending vehicle, not the person.

I have lived near there for a decade and have NEVER been able to cross the street near the Williamsburg bridge without someone running the light.

The city could probably bail itself out of the financial crisis with red light cameras at this one intersection alone.