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	<title>Comments on: Why Stimulus Money Should Go to Cities, Not States</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:01:47 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60796</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60796</guid>
		<description>Cities solve the transportation problem by bringing everything close together.

We were not made to live the car-imposed nightmares of much of the world&#039;s cities.

Sufficient funds to our cities will fix this quite easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cities solve the transportation problem by bringing everything close together.</p>
<p>We were not made to live the car-imposed nightmares of much of the world's cities.</p>
<p>Sufficient funds to our cities will fix this quite easily.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60793</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 07:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60793</guid>
		<description>&quot;In many other areas, transit a *county* function. In fact, I can&#039;t think of a city that runs its own transit system.&quot;

One example would be San Francisco, which effectively runs its own transit system. Of course, this is an unusual situation because the city of San Francisco and county of San Francisco are consolidated and share a mayor and board of supervisors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"In many other areas, transit a *county* function. In fact, I can't think of a city that runs its own transit system."</p>
<p>One example would be San Francisco, which effectively runs its own transit system. Of course, this is an unusual situation because the city of San Francisco and county of San Francisco are consolidated and share a mayor and board of supervisors.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60727</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 04:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60727</guid>
		<description>There is plenty of criticism from pro-transit people on Streetblog now, and it&#039;s important to let this be known to the world at large. You&#039;d be surprised at the degree of misinformation around. 

I wrote in myself this year. I think I could do a pretty good job, and I think I&#039;d make better cabinet picks (though the DOE one is pretty good, I&#039;d prefer to give the job to a chemical engineer who deals with existing technologies rather than future ones). I would really put a lot of money into transit and energy infrastructure. You would be amazed at the built environment! And oh, the state dinners would be magnificent. I think I would eventually win over everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is plenty of criticism from pro-transit people on Streetblog now, and it's important to let this be known to the world at large. You'd be surprised at the degree of misinformation around. </p>
<p>I wrote in myself this year. I think I could do a pretty good job, and I think I'd make better cabinet picks (though the DOE one is pretty good, I'd prefer to give the job to a chemical engineer who deals with existing technologies rather than future ones). I would really put a lot of money into transit and energy infrastructure. You would be amazed at the built environment! And oh, the state dinners would be magnificent. I think I would eventually win over everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60721</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 04:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60721</guid>
		<description>&quot;Perhaps I can throw away my cynicism born of experience and begin to think magically&quot;

See this is just not very respectful, or accurate. It is possible to be optimistic and cynical (or calculatingly realistic) at the same time. I would even say that it&#039;s most healthy to be both things. If you&#039;re so sure things will turn out badly, why not just end it all now?

Maybe your friends deceived themselves, but it&#039;s common knowledge that no front-running presidential candidates supported equal marriage rights, or told the truth about energy. I wonder who you voted for, if not Clinton, surely not the soap-operatic Edwards? But this isn&#039;t the time or place. If you want to litter Streetsblog with self-satisfied, i-told-y&#039;all-so anti-obama bitching, there is nothing I can do to stop you. It will have the opposite effect on me though, that I can&#039;t say deprecatory things about Obama (like pointing out how his effective visual brand was important to winning the election and not much else, a simple fact of history) because you will come in and crap all over the lighthearted note.

If you can&#039;t see the criticism of Obama from pro-transit people going on right now, including Obama primary voters, you&#039;ve had enough sherry for tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Perhaps I can throw away my cynicism born of experience and begin to think magically"</p>
<p>See this is just not very respectful, or accurate. It is possible to be optimistic and cynical (or calculatingly realistic) at the same time. I would even say that it's most healthy to be both things. If you're so sure things will turn out badly, why not just end it all now?</p>
<p>Maybe your friends deceived themselves, but it's common knowledge that no front-running presidential candidates supported equal marriage rights, or told the truth about energy. I wonder who you voted for, if not Clinton, surely not the soap-operatic Edwards? But this isn't the time or place. If you want to litter Streetsblog with self-satisfied, i-told-y'all-so anti-obama bitching, there is nothing I can do to stop you. It will have the opposite effect on me though, that I can't say deprecatory things about Obama (like pointing out how his effective visual brand was important to winning the election and not much else, a simple fact of history) because you will come in and crap all over the lighthearted note.</p>
<p>If you can't see the criticism of Obama from pro-transit people going on right now, including Obama primary voters, you've had enough sherry for tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60696</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60696</guid>
		<description>I have no grudge against you... I understand your wish to be optimistic, it&#039;s a natural human desire.

I think that Obama has taken advantage of progressive people, and I&#039;m worried that during this economic downturn such issues as climate change and transit are just going to be completely ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no grudge against you... I understand your wish to be optimistic, it's a natural human desire.</p>
<p>I think that Obama has taken advantage of progressive people, and I'm worried that during this economic downturn such issues as climate change and transit are just going to be completely ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60695</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60695</guid>
		<description>As one of the few progressives to not accept Obama as my personal savior (and I thought that Hillary was too hawkish as well, and wouldn&#039;t vote for either of them), I&#039;ve taken *quite* a battering already from people who have surrendered their once keen sense of criticism to a very well-run marketing campaign. 

I don&#039;t know if it was his stance on coal or marriage equality that really turned me off more, but I was amazed when people didn&#039;t even know that he held these positions, or insisted that he held the opposite, or &quot;didn&#039;t really mean it.&quot; 

I&#039;m sure Obama will bring change to transit-- pennies! And it&#039;s because he can count on the good will of pro-transit people. If people criticized him on such things maybe he would throw some money and support to transit to shut them up. However, by using this slot as a spot to throw bipartisanship a bone, he obviously doesn&#039;t see it as important. 

Perhaps I can throw away my cynicism born of experience and begin to think magically and believe that America&#039;s urban transit revolution will be run by a Republican from Peoria.

I&#039;ll say this-- It&#039;s not completely impossible! 

I admit that it was a good year for the Democratic party, but it was a disaster for progressive people (proposition 8, Gates as SecDef, etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the few progressives to not accept Obama as my personal savior (and I thought that Hillary was too hawkish as well, and wouldn't vote for either of them), I've taken *quite* a battering already from people who have surrendered their once keen sense of criticism to a very well-run marketing campaign. </p>
<p>I don't know if it was his stance on coal or marriage equality that really turned me off more, but I was amazed when people didn't even know that he held these positions, or insisted that he held the opposite, or "didn't really mean it." </p>
<p>I'm sure Obama will bring change to transit-- pennies! And it's because he can count on the good will of pro-transit people. If people criticized him on such things maybe he would throw some money and support to transit to shut them up. However, by using this slot as a spot to throw bipartisanship a bone, he obviously doesn't see it as important. </p>
<p>Perhaps I can throw away my cynicism born of experience and begin to think magically and believe that America's urban transit revolution will be run by a Republican from Peoria.</p>
<p>I'll say this-- It's not completely impossible! </p>
<p>I admit that it was a good year for the Democratic party, but it was a disaster for progressive people (proposition 8, Gates as SecDef, etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60680</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60680</guid>
		<description>jmc, sorry that your candidate lost in the long-over primaries. I know how it feels, I&#039;ve picked losers too. This time Obama was my choice from the beginning because I saw in him a rare, charismatic Democrat who could win elections (check), someone who could bring American government into the internet era (change.gov, a good start), and someone willing to think through policy and explain to the governed why initially unpleasant choices are sometimes the better ones (???). It&#039;s been a pretty good year for Democrats if you step back a tiny bit. Remember when a lot of party members thought you and I were both fools for wanting a candidate that happened to be female or black? That we were being so, so foolish to overlook the safe white man John Edwards—I couldn&#039;t have written a better repudiation for that cowardice than what transpired.

But I see that my continued optimism, my terribly naive faith (&quot;hope&quot;, actually) that a candiate would stay true to his expressed principles &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/11/10/pelosi-reid-and-emanuel-push-for-carmaker-bailout/#comment-58839&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a full month ago&lt;/a&gt; is still on your mind. Another grudge! (Really, this is not good for digestion.) I have an idea: I&#039;ll try to moderate my optimism if you will try to moderate your negativity. We all need to negotiate with the president-elect to see that our views on transportation are represented in his administration. That means neither blindly accepting whatever Obama does (like with the stimulus) nor insulting him and his supporters at every turn. Health care is for another forum, and dropping bitter bombs all over any discussion where Obama&#039;s name comes up is not helpful in making anything good happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jmc, sorry that your candidate lost in the long-over primaries. I know how it feels, I've picked losers too. This time Obama was my choice from the beginning because I saw in him a rare, charismatic Democrat who could win elections (check), someone who could bring American government into the internet era (change.gov, a good start), and someone willing to think through policy and explain to the governed why initially unpleasant choices are sometimes the better ones (???). It's been a pretty good year for Democrats if you step back a tiny bit. Remember when a lot of party members thought you and I were both fools for wanting a candidate that happened to be female or black? That we were being so, so foolish to overlook the safe white man John Edwards—I couldn't have written a better repudiation for that cowardice than what transpired.</p>
<p>But I see that my continued optimism, my terribly naive faith ("hope", actually) that a candiate would stay true to his expressed principles <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/11/10/pelosi-reid-and-emanuel-push-for-carmaker-bailout/#comment-58839" rel="nofollow">a full month ago</a> is still on your mind. Another grudge! (Really, this is not good for digestion.) I have an idea: I'll try to moderate my optimism if you will try to moderate your negativity. We all need to negotiate with the president-elect to see that our views on transportation are represented in his administration. That means neither blindly accepting whatever Obama does (like with the stimulus) nor insulting him and his supporters at every turn. Health care is for another forum, and dropping bitter bombs all over any discussion where Obama's name comes up is not helpful in making anything good happen.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60662</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60662</guid>
		<description>The Obama brand IS only typography. I must admit, they have great fonts. But the policies? Terrible. 

I think it&#039;s funny that progressive people were all concerned that HRC was too much of a hawk even if she had more clout on domestic issues than the corporate whore anti-heath care reform, pro-coal BO. 

Yet I was repeatedly instructed to have &quot;faith&quot; in this miraculous leader.

Now, what do we have? HRC as Hawk In Chief and political-corporate whoring up the wazzoo. 

BO will throw transit under the bus as soon as it suits him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Obama brand IS only typography. I must admit, they have great fonts. But the policies? Terrible. </p>
<p>I think it's funny that progressive people were all concerned that HRC was too much of a hawk even if she had more clout on domestic issues than the corporate whore anti-heath care reform, pro-coal BO. </p>
<p>Yet I was repeatedly instructed to have "faith" in this miraculous leader.</p>
<p>Now, what do we have? HRC as Hawk In Chief and political-corporate whoring up the wazzoo. </p>
<p>BO will throw transit under the bus as soon as it suits him.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Irvine</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60660</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Irvine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60660</guid>
		<description>I like your article Cap&#039;n.  You make some very good points.  I agree a sub $100 monthly metro card for someone who can afford to live in Manhattan is essentially &quot;free&quot; already.

Part of my &quot;free transit&quot; argument is a negotiation.  We need to overcome the assumption that rail systems should have to pay for themselves.  After all, who pays for the Highways?

Of course, free transit would bring complaints from people who don&#039;t use the system (can&#039;t as you point out because it doesn&#039;t always go where they need to) and I&#039;m sure current riders would be apprehensive about overcrowding.

Still, I like the idea of having a carrot in addition to the stick (East River bridge tolls/congestion pricing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your article Cap'n.  You make some very good points.  I agree a sub $100 monthly metro card for someone who can afford to live in Manhattan is essentially "free" already.</p>
<p>Part of my "free transit" argument is a negotiation.  We need to overcome the assumption that rail systems should have to pay for themselves.  After all, who pays for the Highways?</p>
<p>Of course, free transit would bring complaints from people who don't use the system (can't as you point out because it doesn't always go where they need to) and I'm sure current riders would be apprehensive about overcrowding.</p>
<p>Still, I like the idea of having a carrot in addition to the stick (East River bridge tolls/congestion pricing).</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60654</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60654</guid>
		<description>Transit &lt;a href=&quot;http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/12/transit-shouldnt-always-be-free.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shouldn&#039;t always be free&lt;/a&gt;, Doug.  Free transit won&#039;t necessarily get people out of their cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transit <a href="http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/12/transit-shouldnt-always-be-free.html" rel="nofollow">shouldn't always be free</a>, Doug.  Free transit won't necessarily get people out of their cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Irvine</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60644</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Irvine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60644</guid>
		<description>Could the Feds give the money directly to the transit authorities?  

Ask each of them to create a plan showing how much Federal funding they would require to make their systems FREE for riders and how much money to support the increased demand.

It would be easy to audit.  Are the systems free?  Where is the overcrowding? Are they adding more trains/buses there?  If the transit systems play by the rules, the money keeps flowing.

It&#039;s green, it puts people to work, it encourages density, and it helps the economy as people can move about more easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could the Feds give the money directly to the transit authorities?  </p>
<p>Ask each of them to create a plan showing how much Federal funding they would require to make their systems FREE for riders and how much money to support the increased demand.</p>
<p>It would be easy to audit.  Are the systems free?  Where is the overcrowding? Are they adding more trains/buses there?  If the transit systems play by the rules, the money keeps flowing.</p>
<p>It's green, it puts people to work, it encourages density, and it helps the economy as people can move about more easily.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60631</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60631</guid>
		<description>Money to cities to develop livable streets and cycling infrastructures -- which currently is minimal -- is money to the people and the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Money to cities to develop livable streets and cycling infrastructures -- which currently is minimal -- is money to the people and the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhywun</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60622</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60622</guid>
		<description>&gt; The City was also supposed to pay for the construction of the #7 
&gt; extension to the Javits Center;

Fair enough; I didn&#039;t know that!

I still resent the inordinate influence Albany has over NYC Transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; The City was also supposed to pay for the construction of the #7<br />
&gt; extension to the Javits Center;</p>
<p>Fair enough; I didn't know that!</p>
<p>I still resent the inordinate influence Albany has over NYC Transit.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60619</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60619</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is no way you can hand a pot of money to Bloomberg and get better transit out of it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Sorry, but this is just not true.  The City used to contribute a substantial amount to the MTA budget; this was first cut by Giuliani and continued under Bloomberg.  The City was also supposed to pay for the construction of the #7 extension to the Javits Center; I&#039;m not sure what&#039;s happening with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There is no way you can hand a pot of money to Bloomberg and get better transit out of it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, but this is just not true.  The City used to contribute a substantial amount to the MTA budget; this was first cut by Giuliani and continued under Bloomberg.  The City was also supposed to pay for the construction of the #7 extension to the Javits Center; I'm not sure what's happening with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60613</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60613</guid>
		<description>The Obama brand can not live on typography alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Obama brand can not live on typography alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhywun</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60612</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60612</guid>
		<description>The problem with this idea is that transit too, in many areas, is a state function. See: New York and New Jersey. There is no way you can hand a pot of money to Bloomberg and get better transit out of it. You might get more bike lanes but in the short run bike lanes are not what this is about. It&#039;s about roads, buses, and trains--and Bloomberg has almost no say over any of that. That power belongs to Albany.

I&#039;m not totally sure but I think most of the other big-city Authorities are state-controlled, too.

In many other areas, transit a *county* function. In fact, I can&#039;t think of a city that runs its own transit system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with this idea is that transit too, in many areas, is a state function. See: New York and New Jersey. There is no way you can hand a pot of money to Bloomberg and get better transit out of it. You might get more bike lanes but in the short run bike lanes are not what this is about. It's about roads, buses, and trains--and Bloomberg has almost no say over any of that. That power belongs to Albany.</p>
<p>I'm not totally sure but I think most of the other big-city Authorities are state-controlled, too.</p>
<p>In many other areas, transit a *county* function. In fact, I can't think of a city that runs its own transit system.</p>
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		<title>By: BicyclesOnly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/why-stimulus-money-should-go-to-cities-not-states/comment-page-1/#comment-60610</link>
		<dc:creator>BicyclesOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5142#comment-60610</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see if the feds are willing to give the money to cities--which have no influence on redistricting or other matters that impact the federal government--or to the states--with the inevitable likelihood that the money is given as a quid pro quo.  For the feds to ignore the quids and the backscratching would be some real change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's see if the feds are willing to give the money to cities--which have no influence on redistricting or other matters that impact the federal government--or to the states--with the inevitable likelihood that the money is given as a quid pro quo.  For the feds to ignore the quids and the backscratching would be some real change.</p>
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