Comments on: Channel 13 Poll: Tolls on the East River Bridges? http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:31:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60650 Doc Barnett Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:10:08 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60650 "and to some extent they have a point" They don't have a point, they have a recalcitrant attitude owing to exaggerated grievances. If the MTA shuts down for any length of time they will understand that being angry about old, half-understood financial scandals does not get New York to work in the morning. "and to some extent they have a point"

They don't have a point, they have a recalcitrant attitude owing to exaggerated grievances. If the MTA shuts down for any length of time they will understand that being angry about old, half-understood financial scandals does not get New York to work in the morning.

]]> By: oscar http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60645 oscar Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:34:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60645 niccolo, relax...i support east river tolls & congestion pricing all i'm saying is that the MTA has a bad reputation when it comes to maney management, and so things like this are a hard sell to the public at large...seems whenever i see polls like this, talk to people, read comments, the idea of giving money to the MTA angers them more than the idea of tolling bridges itself..and to some extent they have a point... niccolo, relax...i support east river tolls & congestion pricing

all i'm saying is that the MTA has a bad reputation when it comes to maney management, and so things like this are a hard sell to the public at large...seems whenever i see polls like this, talk to people, read comments, the idea of giving money to the MTA angers them more than the idea of tolling bridges itself..and to some extent they have a point...

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60625 Angus Grieve-Smith Wed, 17 Dec 2008 04:55:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60625 Hi Jeff! It's not clear from your question whether you already know <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/04/congestion-charging-in-new-york-city-the-political-bloodbath/" rel="nofollow">the answer</a> or not. Hi Jeff! It's not clear from your question whether you already know the answer or not.

]]> By: Jeff Prant http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60621 Jeff Prant Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:48:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60621 A better question: Why were the bridges (or on-street car parking) made free in the first place? A better question: Why were the bridges (or on-street car parking) made free in the first place?

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60616 Niccolo Machiavelli Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:46:57 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60616 Could you be a little more specific Oscar? And if the "track record" is so unredeemable why ever fund it? Oh yeah, the little thing of the transit system they run. The Ravitch commission studied how to fund the MTA. To say the MTA has a bad record (arguable) in handling money doesn't really answer how to fund it. I guess you prefer to bankrupt it, put you in the Littlefield crew I guess. Could you be a little more specific Oscar? And if the "track record" is so unredeemable why ever fund it? Oh yeah, the little thing of the transit system they run. The Ravitch commission studied how to fund the MTA. To say the MTA has a bad record (arguable) in handling money doesn't really answer how to fund it. I guess you prefer to bankrupt it, put you in the Littlefield crew I guess.

]]> By: Streetsman http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60607 Streetsman Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:55:47 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60607 Also lost in the argument is that tolling benefits <i>drivers</i>. It will create a financial disincentive to driving, so many people that have other options such as mass transit, carpooling, biking or walking will not drive. There will be fewer cars on the road, particularly at the crossings, which are the choke points for the road network. Day one of bridge tolling could be the smoothest, fastest commute drivers have had in decades. Also lost in the argument is that tolling benefits drivers. It will create a financial disincentive to driving, so many people that have other options such as mass transit, carpooling, biking or walking will not drive. There will be fewer cars on the road, particularly at the crossings, which are the choke points for the road network. Day one of bridge tolling could be the smoothest, fastest commute drivers have had in decades.

]]> By: Mark http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60605 Mark Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:01:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60605 To sell tolling politically, the public must be made to understand that drivers benefit from the transit system as much as transit riders do, and because the system is in trouble, all New Yorkers need to help pitch in to save a system we all depend on. Motorists benefit from the system for 2 reasons: 1. New York City cannot compete economically without a good transit system 2. The transit system takes the majority of commuters, puts them underground and out of the way so that a few have space on the surface to drive. If the transit system were to shut down, it would be spatially impossible to move everyone into Manhattan in motor vehicles. A single subway train at rush hour holds 1,500 people. Now imagine putting those 1,500 people into motor vehicles and onto the already congested streets of Manhattan. It just doesn’t work. I wish the advocates would organize some kind of imaginative protest to illustrate the point. Maybe we could all walk into Manhattan spaced out every 15 feet as if we were cars. Maybe we should organize a fare boycott—Boston Tea Party style. To sell tolling politically, the public must be made to understand that drivers benefit from the transit system as much as transit riders do, and because the system is in trouble, all New Yorkers need to help pitch in to save a system we all depend on.

Motorists benefit from the system for 2 reasons:

1. New York City cannot compete economically without a good transit system

2. The transit system takes the majority of commuters, puts them underground and out of the way so that a few have space on the surface to drive. If the transit system were to shut down, it would be spatially impossible to move everyone into Manhattan in motor vehicles. A single subway train at rush hour holds 1,500 people. Now imagine putting those 1,500 people into motor vehicles and onto the already congested streets of Manhattan. It just doesn’t work.

I wish the advocates would organize some kind of imaginative protest to illustrate the point. Maybe we could all walk into Manhattan spaced out every 15 feet as if we were cars. Maybe we should organize a fare boycott—Boston Tea Party style.

]]> By: oscar http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60604 oscar Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:51:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60604 i think there would be more support for tolls and even congestion pricing if the MTA didnt have such a bad track record with money management. i think there would be more support for tolls and even congestion pricing if the MTA didnt have such a bad track record with money management.

]]> By: J. Mork http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60596 J. Mork Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:36:30 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60596 E-ZPass with camera enforcement. http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/04/more-on-the-ravitch-commissions-mta-fix/ E-ZPass with camera enforcement.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/04/more-on-the-ravitch-commissions-mta-fix/

]]> By: JDogg http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60593 JDogg Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:25:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60593 The tolling is a great idea, the question is begged how to collect it? Using cameras to capture images of plates is fine, but to charge what account? Scofflaws? Obscured plates? EZPass? Implementation at what cost? The tolling is a great idea, the question is begged how to collect it?

Using cameras to capture images of plates is fine, but to charge what account? Scofflaws? Obscured plates? EZPass?

Implementation at what cost?

]]> By: robin http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/12/16/channel-13-poll-tolls-on-the-east-river-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-60590 robin Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:49:03 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=5141#comment-60590 we also have two interviews up with MTA engineers: http://www.thirteen.org/local/web-exclusive-videos-see-the-lirr-extension-tunneland-learn-about-the-2nd-ave-subway-project we also have two interviews up with MTA engineers:
http://www.thirteen.org/local/web-exclusive-videos-see-the-lirr-extension-tunneland-learn-about-the-2nd-ave-subway-project

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