Comments on: Sprawlsville Steps Back From the Edge

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:50:44 +0000

I agree that transit funding should not be a zero-sum game, but in this year it is in fact a negative-sum game! We now have confirmation (http://transbayblog.com/2008/12/12/from-the-horses-mouth/) that BART to SJ is taking funding priority over all other VTA projects.

My point was not that BART shouldn't go to SJ, just that doing so now and with the proposed funding plan would do more harm than good. I just wanted to go on record as saying that the argument was more nuanced than just "transit activists in the SF Bay Area who are trying to stop a BART extension to San Jose."

But your example of BART to the airport/Milbrae strikes me as odd. By all accounts I've found that project was a disaster from which BART is only just beginning to recover.

For one thing the "we'll tax ourselves to pay for it" plan that Santa Clara county is copying from San Mateo county cost the BART counties tens of millions of dollars in the following years as revenue from the extension failed to pay for its operation. There is a very real chance that that could happen again, because the SJ BART stations all have wildly overestimated ridership projections.

By: Charles Siegel

Charles Siegel — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:10:37 +0000

Josh: years ago, the same people were saying the same thing about extending BART to the airport: it would suck up all available funding and prevent other more cost-effective projects from being built. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.

In fact, Santa Clara county voted to tax itself to pay part of the cost of BART, and that transit funding would just disappear if BART were not built.

Transit funding is not a zero-sum game - dramatic projects, like BART to SJ, generate more funding. As Obama talks about increasing federal funding to transit, the last thing we need is the negativism of BART to SJ opponents.

By: Christopher Edwards

Christopher Edwards — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:20:45 +0000

Peter -- the story is a little confused. Or poorly worded. There will stations right between both malls (there are two) as well as near other major intersections. Areas around the two malls that are currently parking are to be housing and offices. Delineating a new streetgrid. But as there are only 4 new stations. And the whole redevelopment area is many, many acres, There will still need to be, in addition to the pedestrian improvements, development of circulator and bus systems. Or enhancement of the one that are already there. Arlington, Va, which underwent a somewhat similar transformation over the last 30 years (to its advantage a street grid of sorts, already existed there), has several Metro stations but they still require ART buses for shorter trips and to circulate people around. Metro does not function, because of the heavy rail nature of the trains and the depth or height of the stations, very effectively as a circulator system. It's no subway, it's no trolley.

By: Peter Smith

Peter Smith — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:27:14 +0000

buses to get you from the train to the mall, huh? that's a great idea. that's _definitely_ going to work.

By: Josh

Josh — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:14:48 +0000

The opposition to the BART extension to SJ mostly revolves around the fact (no longer conjecture) that this $6 billion extension will suck up all available transit programs in the region. Approving the extension in this political climate is essentially defunding other cheaper and more effective transit solutions like electrification of Caltrain and the Dumbarton Rail project:

http://wordpress.com/tag/bart-to-san-jose/

By: Charles Siegel

Charles Siegel — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:55:08 +0000

Oddly enough, there are transit activists in the SF Bay Area who are trying to stop a BART extension to San Jose - which could generate much more infill than this, since San Jose is much larger than Tyson's Corner. I am planning to send them the article about Tyson's Corner, in the hope that it will interrupt their dogmatic slumber.

By: rlb

rlb — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:04:06 +0000

This is an exciting development. It's interesting to note that similar things have been happening in the DC area for about ten years. Areas in Maryland like Bethesda, Silver Spring, and Gaithersburg have succesfully filled in many parking lots, increased density and promoted urban living.

What else is interesting is that the other major DC Metro battle which has been waging for about 10 years is the purple line. That line is to connect Bethesda and Silver Spring and continue on to the Univ of Maryland - circumferentially linking up several radial legs of the DC Metro. Though it's considerably further, a compelling case could be made to bring Tyson's Corner into that mix.