As for your argument about poor people, you want to hear something similar? It sounds typical of remarks made by Russian people I’ve known. How do you like that? The truth is, your statement did indeed remind me of statements I’ve heard from immigrants from the former USSR make. But I don’t try to conclude something based that limited experience (plus some imagination), the way you did. And yet, I’m sure, it sounds to you like pretty ugly thinking, doesn’t it? That’s ’cause it is.

Funnily enough for this conversation, it’s Capitalist’s story about his driving history that I want to repeat to you, Boris: he drives as if expecting the unexpected, because he knows that his car vehicle kill. There’s no reason every driver shouldn’t think that way, and I think it would be good if society set as a goal (regardless of its real reachability) a state in which all drivers do.

We barely stop to question why anyone needs to be driving an anti-social, overly large monstrosity like an SUV or why they are driving at such a speed where they even could kill a pedestrian. Its just taken as their God given right and the natural order of things that cars should be big and drivers should get where they are going as fast as possible.

Stop blaming the victims. In this instance this woman and her son broke no rules. What on earth do your made-up stereotypes about how ‘poor people don’t know how to cross the street’ have to do with anything? Because they don’t drive? Are you kidding me? Why is it so hard for people like you to recognize a tragedy when you see one? Is your capacity for empathy somehow disabled by the fact that they *might* have been poor (you just assume this because of the neighborhood and their race right?) –

Seriously, there is something really, really, really wrong when this kind of tragedy happens and the first thing that comes to mind is some kind of borderline social Darwinistic tripe about how “poor people play in traffic.”

You don’t even know this woman or her son.

So shut up.

Maybe you’ve never been honked at by a non-cab, but I suspect you’re in the minority. Granted, NY drivers may be less scary than those in some other parts of the world, but by Western-world standards, they’re pretty scary. The only thing stopping them from being more dangerous is gridlock.

As to your points about jaywalking and other pedestrian misbehavior, I’ve been driving in NY for 20-odd years, and I’ve never hit anybody. Why? Because I assume that there will be someone jumping out in front of me or doing something else dangerous at all times and give myself enough time to compensate. I don’t regard the milliseconds I save by running a light or cutting a corner as being more valuable than someone else’s safety. Unfortunately, there are too many NY’ers who make the opposite valuation, which causes a lot of injury and death. Sure, it’s worse in a lot of other places, but that doesn’t excuse it here.

In New York, nobody other than cabbies honks at pedestrians when they are crossing against the light. In Russia, where I’m originally from, some cars completely ignore traffic lights, so it pays to look both ways even when crossing on green. This also goes for Mexico and many other countries. In the USA, New York drivers are only the third-worst (after Boston and Miami). In Israel, as many people are hurt in car crashes every year as in all terrorist attacks together. There are probably more examples I can give you with a little research. But that’s not really the point I’m trying to make. My point is that if drivers really have “a license to kill”, they are pretty careful.

Susan,

I think it’s reasonable to assume that poor people are less likely to own a car and therefore know about traffic regulations. They are also more likely to go to bad schools and have parents who don’t teach them how to cross the street. But that doesn’t mean they should not be educated about crossing the street- in school, through some extracurricular city program, etc.

“In many poor New York neighborhoods, pedestrians completely ignore cars- for example, starting to cross an intersection just as their light turns red, making cars wait, or crossing not at an intersection at night while bouncing a ball.”

1. This is true in all kinds of neighborhoods. The sidewalks are crowded people jaywalk and stand in the street– it means the streets are too wide. I see it on the upper east side and I see it in Washington Heights.
2. It may not be you intention, but it sounds like you’re trying to minimize these crimes and blame the victims simply because they are poor. I think that’s rotten.
3. Even if this is true WHO CARES? It’s not any kind of excuse for anyone dying. I don’t care if a person is jaywalking blindfolded and backwards with six ipods on –it’s still wrong to hit them. It’s wrong on a bike and it’s even more wrong in a car. Whoever has the bigger vehicle should be at fault.

I have been knocked off of my bike twice by a car– once in Shaker Heights OH, a wealthy suburb of Celeveland– the driver stopped and helped me up. Once in NYC, in east Harlem– that time it was a hit-and-run– they speed away and just left me there for dead. That’s not “careful” that’s inhuman. I want to be civil and all, but I think you must be living in some kind of fantasy world, Boris. And I think you’re a little prejudiced against “poor” people from “those kinds of neighborhoods.”

You wrote the following:
“I’m not justifying NYC’s abhorrent rate of pedestrian fatalities; I’m just saying that compared to many other cities and countries, NYC drivers are relatively careful and law-abiding, while NYC pedestrians are relatively ignorant of traffic and crossing regulations.”

What evidence do you have that NYC drivers are relatively careful and law-abiding? Because I’ve lived in a lot of cities (eight of them), and I have never until New York been in taxis flying down a downtown street at 50+ mph, nor have I been nearly hit as many times in what should be relatively quiet neighborhoods, nor have I ever before seen so many drivers stepping on the gas while holding down the horn because they just won’t stop for the red light, so you’d better get the FU*K out of their way!

Show me some data. I’d bet a whole lot that you don’t have any data or evidence to support that (seemingly?) ridiculous claim. Thanks.

You know what? FUCK these idiots in their SUVs!! They need to be stopped. What kind of self-centered inhuman DUMP do we live in when you can’t even walk home from school in safety? These arseholes are running around like they own the place with absolutely no concern for anyone else. They can drive as irresponsibly as they like and take the lives of perfect young children with no fear of punishment. This cannot be allowed to continue.

Perhaps a suitable additional punishment would be to force the driver to put up the picture of the child he killed on the dashboard so that he sees it EVERY time he gets behind the wheel.

Now I don’t know what to think. If there really are no consequences for drivers, why are drivers so careful? In many poor New York neighborhoods, pedestrians completely ignore cars- for example, starting to cross an intersection just as their light turns red, making cars wait, or crossing not at an intersection at night while bouncing a ball. I’m not justifying NYC’s abhorrent rate of pedestrian fatalities; I’m just saying that compared to many other cities and countries, NYC drivers are relatively careful and law-abiding, while NYC pedestrians are relatively ignorant of traffic and crossing regulations.

Maybe if people are taught that cars (and bikes) are dangerous to pedestrians, they would be a) more careful and b) more supportive of measures that limit or separate vehicles from pedestrians.