Comments on: Broadway Boulevard Confirms: People Will Sit in Well-Placed Seats http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:32:54 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Max Rockatansky http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56712 Max Rockatansky Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:42:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56712 Speaking of the Westside bike lane, I saw an elderly gentleman drive right through one of the curb cuts thinking it was the road. Speaking of the Westside bike lane, I saw an elderly gentleman drive right through one of the curb cuts thinking it was the road.

]]> By: Andyp http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56707 Andyp Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:20:02 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56707 While I would love to have ddartley saintliness, it's hard when bikes are not allowed on the sidewalk or in parks and will be ticketed when ridden in unauthorized spaces. Meanwhile anyone from peds, tourists, skylarking car drivers, street vendors and dog walkers can use the bike lanes/bridges lanes without penalty and regularly do so, often walking the wrong way/blocking much of the lane. I have seen people park on the Westside bike lane so they can watch the cruise ships sail, read a map, make a phone call, catch a short cut to the Chelsea piers. While I would love to have ddartley saintliness, it's hard when bikes are not allowed on the sidewalk or in parks and will be ticketed when ridden in unauthorized spaces. Meanwhile anyone from peds, tourists, skylarking car drivers, street vendors and dog walkers can use the bike lanes/bridges lanes without penalty and regularly do so, often walking the wrong way/blocking much of the lane. I have seen people park on the Westside bike lane so they can watch the cruise ships sail, read a map, make a phone call, catch a short cut to the Chelsea piers.

]]> By: Chris O'Leary http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56706 Chris O'Leary Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:17:12 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56706 When I encounter a pedestrian walking in this bike lane who's willing to talk to me, I pose this simple question: would you leisurely walk in the middle of an active car lane? Then why would you leisurely walk in the middle of an active bike lane? When I encounter a pedestrian walking in this bike lane who's willing to talk to me, I pose this simple question: would you leisurely walk in the middle of an active car lane? Then why would you leisurely walk in the middle of an active bike lane?

]]> By: mike http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56704 mike Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:53:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56704 anonymouse - Yes, the law says you're required to use "usable" bike lanes, but makes all sorts of exceptions as to when it's non usable, and even says "including, but not limited to". I am sure you could make a case that several hundred pedestrians blindly and unpredictably walking across a bike lane renders it dangerous and unusable. anonymouse -

Yes, the law says you're required to use "usable" bike lanes, but makes all sorts of exceptions as to when it's non usable, and even says "including, but not limited to". I am sure you could make a case that several hundred pedestrians blindly and unpredictably walking across a bike lane renders it dangerous and unusable.

]]> By: anonymouse http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56699 anonymouse Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:42:35 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56699 Perhaps the current bike lane is okay... for specific purposes, like a leisurely ride. But if you want to get from point a to point b quickly (and is velocity not an integral part of the velocipede?), then you're best off mingling with the cars out in the car lanes. Unfortunately, I believe the current vehicle code prohibits it, saying that if there is a bike lane, cyclists are required to use it, and cops have been known to enforce this on occasion. Perhaps the current bike lane is okay... for specific purposes, like a leisurely ride. But if you want to get from point a to point b quickly (and is velocity not an integral part of the velocipede?), then you're best off mingling with the cars out in the car lanes. Unfortunately, I believe the current vehicle code prohibits it, saying that if there is a bike lane, cyclists are required to use it, and cops have been known to enforce this on occasion.

]]> By: Jeramey Jannene http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56696 Jeramey Jannene Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:05:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56696 Jealous that Milwaukee hasn't done something like this. Jealous that Milwaukee hasn't done something like this.

]]> By: Dave Reid http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56695 Dave Reid Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:58:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56695 That looks great, hopefully it can serve as a model in other cities in the US> That looks great, hopefully it can serve as a model in other cities in the US>

]]> By: Dan http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56688 Dan Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:01:49 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56688 As annoying as the pedestrians can be, let's be thankful for the benefits that have come along with this lane. At least here you can ride without having to worry about a taxi pulling into the bike lane, or having a car parked in it, forcing you to swerve into traffic. I'd much rather have to deal with pedestrians instead of cars. As annoying as the pedestrians can be, let's be thankful for the benefits that have come along with this lane. At least here you can ride without having to worry about a taxi pulling into the bike lane, or having a car parked in it, forcing you to swerve into traffic. I'd much rather have to deal with pedestrians instead of cars.

]]> By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56684 JK Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:26:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56684 The Blvd is great, but the curbside bike lane adjacent to jammed sidewalks is not working. I didn't think it could work, but wanted to see for myself before joining the many other Sbloggers observing the same thing. Now I've ridden through a couple times. Yep, the curbside bike lane has be converted into ped space, and a protected lane installed on the street side of the seating area. No amount of signs and markings are going to keep pedestrians from walking in a bike lane when they are jammed onto the sidewalk. This part of the experiment didn't work. No problem. Adjust the plan and move on. The great part of the current regime at DOT is their flexibility. They shouldn't have too much trouble moving the lane to where it makes more sense. The Blvd is great, but the curbside bike lane adjacent to jammed sidewalks is not working. I didn't think it could work, but wanted to see for myself before joining the many other Sbloggers observing the same thing. Now I've ridden through a couple times. Yep, the curbside bike lane has be converted into ped space, and a protected lane installed on the street side of the seating area. No amount of signs and markings are going to keep pedestrians from walking in a bike lane when they are jammed onto the sidewalk. This part of the experiment didn't work. No problem. Adjust the plan and move on. The great part of the current regime at DOT is their flexibility. They shouldn't have too much trouble moving the lane to where it makes more sense.

]]> By: rlb http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56678 rlb Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:50:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56678 Ddartley, To quote Lloyd Braun: Serenity now, Insanity Later I hope you screw the cap on that bottle extra tight. Ddartley,

To quote Lloyd Braun:

Serenity now, Insanity Later

I hope you screw the cap on that bottle extra tight.

]]> By: Max Rockatansky http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56676 Max Rockatansky Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:44:39 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56676 It's a rough route to ride, exactly for all the reasons outlined above. Perhaps, if they decide to make this permanent, building a protected bike lane to the outside of the benches would make more sense. Using something like jersey barriers to protect against wayward traffic. I'm not surprised it's become popular - it's a convenient place to sit in stretches where there aren't a lot of other options. And bravo ddartley! With the continuing rise in oil costs and MTA shortages the city should be doing everything possible to make biking attractive. It's a rough route to ride, exactly for all the reasons outlined above. Perhaps, if they decide to make this permanent, building a protected bike lane to the outside of the benches would make more sense. Using something like jersey barriers to protect against wayward traffic. I'm not surprised it's become popular - it's a convenient place to sit in stretches where there aren't a lot of other options. And bravo ddartley!

With the continuing rise in oil costs and MTA shortages the city should be doing everything possible to make biking attractive.

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56673 ddartley Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:13:35 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56673 I bike that stretch of Broadway every work day. I have decided that despite my many complaints about that bike lane's design, I will, for the cause of improving bicyclist-pedestrian relations, I will ride in that lane every time I ride that stretch of Broadway. I will NOT yell at the pedestrians. I will be polite to them no matter how oblivously or stupidly I have seen them behave (for example, the dozens of them who, deafened by iPod, step into the green bike lane without looking up at all). If they can't hear me or see me, I will wait till I can pass them without scaring them. I will allow them to slow me down, get in my way, and do things that would normally piss me off. When I pass them, they will see that they are in the wrong place, (I've seen the realization hit them, it does happen) and they will see that I was civil about their being in the wrong place. They will not have a story to tell about an asshole bicyclist. I hate the design of this lane, but I will forgo all the things I like or want about bike travel when I'm on that stretch of broadway, all with a view towards cyclists and pedestrians being on the same side, not pitted against each other. (Cars, on the other hand, I will continue to hurl into the sea, as I always have.) I bike that stretch of Broadway every work day.

I have decided that despite my many complaints about that bike lane's design, I will, for the cause of improving bicyclist-pedestrian relations, I will ride in that lane every time I ride that stretch of Broadway.

I will NOT yell at the pedestrians. I will be polite to them no matter how oblivously or stupidly I have seen them behave (for example, the dozens of them who, deafened by iPod, step into the green bike lane without looking up at all).

If they can't hear me or see me, I will wait till I can pass them without scaring them.

I will allow them to slow me down, get in my way, and do things that would normally piss me off.

When I pass them, they will see that they are in the wrong place, (I've seen the realization hit them, it does happen) and they will see that I was civil about their being in the wrong place.

They will not have a story to tell about an asshole bicyclist.

I hate the design of this lane, but I will forgo all the things I like or want about bike travel when I'm on that stretch of broadway, all with a view towards cyclists and pedestrians being on the same side, not pitted against each other.

(Cars, on the other hand, I will continue to hurl into the sea, as I always have.)

]]> By: ddartley http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56671 ddartley Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:03:12 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56671 The solution is so easy: FILL the green bike lane with the phrases, "Bikes" "Look [arrow pointing uptown]" and repeat "Bikes" "Look [arrow pointing uptown]" "Bikes" "Look [arrow pointing uptown]" "Bikes" "Look [arrow pointing uptown]" SEVERAL TIMES EACH BLOCK! Do it! Problem 90% solved. It can't be all that expensive or hard to do. In the UK (and elswhere) they paint similar markings at almost EVERY busy city intersection, no reason we can't add more messages into the green bike lane: http://flickr.com/photos/erinmparkes/2638463217/ http://flickr.com/photos/fwlenard/906239401/ http://flickr.com/photos/ceciliapensini/2377766187/ http://flickr.com/photos/redmum/47704628/ http://flickr.com/photos/mister_pink/352984435/ The solution is so easy:

FILL the green bike lane with the phrases,

"Bikes"
"Look [arrow pointing uptown]"

and repeat

"Bikes"
"Look [arrow pointing uptown]"
"Bikes"
"Look [arrow pointing uptown]"
"Bikes"
"Look [arrow pointing uptown]"

SEVERAL TIMES EACH BLOCK!

Do it! Problem 90% solved. It can't be all that expensive or hard to do. In the UK (and elswhere) they paint similar markings at almost EVERY busy city intersection, no reason we can't add more messages into the green bike lane:

http://flickr.com/photos/erinmparkes/2638463217/
http://flickr.com/photos/fwlenard/906239401/
http://flickr.com/photos/ceciliapensini/2377766187/
http://flickr.com/photos/redmum/47704628/
http://flickr.com/photos/mister_pink/352984435/

]]> By: Andrew http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/23/broadway-boulevard-confirms-people-will-sit-in-well-placed-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-56669 Andrew Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:33:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4622#comment-56669 The seats are great but the bike lane was better as just an idea. I biked down there the other day and it isn't so much a bike lane as it is an extension of the sidewalk. People jump in and out of it and it almost makes more sense to bike in the road. The seats are great but the bike lane was better as just an idea. I biked down there the other day and it isn't so much a bike lane as it is an extension of the sidewalk. People jump in and out of it and it almost makes more sense to bike in the road.

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