As for MTA, it’s a mess, but it’s the only game in town. New York must find a way to make it work, despite people like our Negative Nancy here. Tolling all the E. River bridges is a great way to start. And why, except for pride, must the subway run all night? Use those operating funds to clean up the stations!

Add “future” to “collective” and you see why it has been milked, and why it is doomed. Slash normal replacement (as has already happened) and the deterioration is gradual (already started). Why stop future harm to everyone when I can get more for me now?

Too late. It’s gone. What effect will a reversion to normal stock prices have on the pensions, and how much will have to be diverted from transportation to the retired as a result.

Ravitch — DECLARE BANKRUPTCY. STOP PAYING DEBTS AND PENSIONS. TAX THE INCOME OF THE RETIRED. Then talk to me about what I owe.

Exactly (not exactly — it isn’t quite that much and it is under several administration — but close). And just think that under the congestion pricing plan as proposed by the legislature’s commission (not Bloomberg), the debt service on that money would have been for by city residents, while all the revenues would have gone to the MTA for use on the LIRR.

Imagine if everyone rode transit? Then transit riders would have to pay for the whole thing, no?

How about this instead? Eliminate the bus system. Eliminate the commuter railroads. Close half the subway stations. Shut the subway overnight. And make transit free. The tax cost of the transit system would go down, and the farebox operating ratio would be zero.

In short, those who demanded deep fare cuts relative to inflation for 15 years helped to create that $40 billion debt (including unfunded retirement obligations), in addition to those who wanted tax cuts, those who wanted spending on other things, those who wanted richer pensions, and those who wanted to overcharge the capital budget.

But now tt’s too late. The more we put in, the more others will take out.

While it does seem by simple mathematics that NYC is getting screwed by 10% relative to Chicago and 20some% vis a vis Philidelphia (and Oshkosh for that matter) it is not all that simple, other factors must be considered. Our higher farebox operating ratio is actually a simple function of our density and a harvesting of productivities built into earlier capital investments, mostly in the subway system. We move more people a shorter distance on more grade-separated rail in bigger train consists with greater capacity utilization. Then there is the basic fare structure that yields this FOR, $2 in all three cities, yet there is no free bus-subway transfer in either Philly or Chi and the average fare is therefor higher. You can pick out one indicator, even a critical ones like FOR or FRR, and declare that the sine qua non of quantitative analysis but it doesn’t make it so, or even relevant. Our system runs 24 hours a day and that drives down the FOR substantially as well, ever see the empty buses out in the former two-fare zones at 1 AM, we are getting a lot more for our $1.45 average fare in terms of head times and off-peak service.

But that is not my chief beef with this sort of perspective. My main problem is that it takes something that is a measure of the efficiency or our system, and a big justification for more Federal transit support for the capital budget and makes it look like we are getting screwed. And, it leads to the popular but incorrect view that our riders are somehow getting screwed by having access to what in effect is a more efficient system. High FOR and FRR are good reasons to invest in the system, ideally in ways that will maintain efficiency.

A good FOR doesn’t mean the riders are getting screwed it means that the system is working. Constantly sneering at the MTA, even its successes, leads to a high level of social distrust in the agency. I’m glad they run buses in Suffolk County even if they only recover 25% of their operating costs from the farebox.

TOLL THEM. Make those who cross them in their cars pay for their maintenance.

Benefits:
- Additional funds to be used for transit (how it’s allocated TBD)
- Put all boroughs on a par with Staten Islanders who always pay a toll
- Easy EZ-Pass installation. No EZ-Pass use the Triboro or QMT
- Reduction in traffic

The distortion caused by almost limitless free parking and no bridge tolls means it is easier and cheaper to drive around the city than it is to take mass transit. Let’s change this.

Responsibility for adequately funding the MTA should fall on those who benefit from its services.

I have no desire to shoulder that responsibility while I still bear responsibility for maintaining the “free” bridges and highways that I barely use. Let’s see the motorists – who on average make more than transit users – take on that responsibility first, shall we?

The responsibility point is the most problematic with me too. But I think the larger problem is not that some people got away with not paying their fare share, but that we subsidize others while they refuse to subsidize us. Roads and even public transit upstate get far more money per rider than roads and transit in New York City. If they want us to pay for our transit, they should pay for their own transit, too. How are we supposed to pay if all our money goes to Albany and doesn’t return?

I always wonder- even considering the masses of urban poor in the city, citywide average income (and therefore, taxes) should be high enough to pay for good transportation. Just like the state underfunds city schools relative to out-of-city schools, we get the shaft when it comes to transportation funding.

How about all those who benefitted from its services in the past, but sucked too much out and didn’t pay enough in? Why should we accept that the heist is a done deal?

They lied. Make them pay, or don’t ask me to.