The law is that traffic agents' instructions supercede traffic signals and lights.

But agents only instruct cars. They generally don't signal anything at all to pedestrians.

Pretty stupid for them to only deal with cars and not peds in a city where peds outnumber cars--vastly, at some intersections, since their instructions to cars will often necessarily create conflict with pedestrians. If they're going to do that, they should also be in charge of directing peds.

I have no problem with that as long as cars are forbidden from entering the Jersey side of the Lincoln Tunnel when pedestrian traffic is thick in west midtown.

1. Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady circular green signal
may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such
place prohibits either such turn. Such traffic, including when turning
right or left, shall yield the right of way to other traffic lawfully
within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal
is exhibited.

Since the pedestrians have the right to complete the crossing even after the do not walk signal has truned steady, there are lawfully in the intersection ...

The second one was hiding at an intersection to give tickets . He was smiling and siad "I have three pens on me and not enough time to give all the tickets I could give " THAT was good...
He then continued saying that there were not enough cops to do that ?? Is the NYPD really asking all the traffic agents to give tickets as the law envisions? or are they going to continue to use these poor people as live traffic lights?

Including the ped crossing in the box is an obvious amendment we need to ask for .. but first let us make sure the NYPD is enforcing this law.. we need statistics published ..

I don't think you drive in Manhattan much, Cap'n

Uh, no, I don't. I'm no fool.

I've seen pedestrians going against the light block a car for a few seconds at most. I've never seen pedestrians keep a car in the box through a signal change, except when traffic on the other side of the crosswalk was so backed up the car would wind up blocking the crosswalk.

These agents will be there not to stop pedestrians and let traffic turn but to wait to ticket those who couldn't turn because of pedestrians.

Many commenters on this blog have observed that traffic cops routinely overrule leading pedestrian intervals, stop pedestrians and wave cars through. I seriously doubt that the possibility of a few tickets is going to suddenly overturn this pro-driver, anti-pedestrian bias.

For turning traffic it is as you note much worse. And you find it hard to imagine a TEA agent ticketing someone like that? I don't. These agents will be there not to stop pedestrians and let traffic turn but to wait to ticket those who couldn't turn because of pedestrians. Trust me.

But pedestrians routinely cross when it is flashing (and when it is a solid DON'T WALK) so does it make sense for the city to ticket the motorist who doesn't run them over but is forced into the "box" by the illegal action of the pedestrian?

I've never seen a motorist who is stuck in the box by the actions of jaywalking pedestrians. I have, in fact, seen motorists whose plan to exit the box is predicated on blocking the crosswalk, and I've sometimes succeeded in forcing them to stay in the box rather than the crosswalk - by crossing with the light. If you think about it, Dave, under most circumstances if a car is in the box when the light changes, the pedestrians crossing the car's path will have the light.

The only way I can think of for a car to be stuck in the box by pedestrians crossing against the flashing hand is if they're turning - and I find it hard to imagine a TEA ticketing a motorist who's stuck that way.

I don't know why you're constructing this elaborate scenario, Dave, but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

The city NEVER tickets pedestrian for jay-walking or crossing against the light so I would love to see these tickets challenged on the basis that the illegal behavior of the pedestrian is overlooked while the accident-avoiding behavior of the driver is fined.

Of course the situation changes when drivers pull into an intersection when the street space on the other side of the crosswalk is saturated (like at the entrance to the tunnels and such)

Until the city tickets jay-walkers (and bikers who refuse to use bikelanes when present) I think anyone ticketed for blocking the box based on the illegal crossings of pedestrians should challenge the ticket. Because of course we can't rely on the cops to ticket appropriately.

§ 1112. Pedestrian-control signal indications. Whenever pedestrians
are controlled by pedestrian-control signals exhibiting the words "WALK"
or "DON'T WALK", or exhibiting symbols of a walking person or upraised
hand, such signals shall indicate and apply to pedestrians as follows:
(a) Steady WALK or walking person. Pedestrians facing such signal may
proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal and shall be
given the right of way by other traffic.
(b) Flashing DON'T WALK or upraised hand. No pedestrian shall start to
cross the roadway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrians
who have partially completed their crossing on the WALK or walking
person signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island while the
flashing DON'T WALK or upraised hand signal is showing.
(c) Steady DON'T WALK or upraised hand. No pedestrians shall start to
cross the roadway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrians
who have partially completed their crossing on the WALK or flashing
DON'T WALK signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island while the
steady DON'T WALK signal is showing.

So before you start ticketing cars for blocking the box, make sure you ticket pedestrians for running in front of cars, jaywalking and such.

Sure the city should be pedestrian-friendly, but a car stuck in an intersection because of pedestrians crossing against the light should not be ticketed.

Think about if you hear that over and over as a kid, of course you will probably grow up not knowing you have the right to cross safely with your light. Even crossing guards I guess don't universally recognize a pedestrian's right to cross with the crosswalk signal. Ridiculous. So how do we expect traffic agents to recognize it?

Sblog, thanks for posting this.
I was about to make the rather severe suggestion to my reps that they draft a whole new bill to be introduced to specifically deal with crosswalks.

But of course that might not be necessary, if TEAs actually are ticketing cars sitting in crosswalks.

If there IS enough material out there for a "mycrosswalk.com," THEN I will start bugging Assembly and Senate to fix the law so it covers crosswalks too.

And of course there might even be more efficient ways, rather than whole new legislation--maybe we could bug the TEAs bosses, rather than the Assembly and Senate... rambling today...