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	<title>Comments on: Cyclist Reported Killed in Park Slope</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Marty Barfowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56761</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Barfowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56761</guid>
		<description>For chrissake, &quot;anonymous,&quot; at least have the simple decency to identify yourself with a real name if you&#039;re going to slander a dead man who can&#039;t speak up to explain his side of the story. Given that the newspaper accounts of the crash had critical details wrong, why in the world should anyone believe an anonymous commenter on a blog? I mean: What&#039;s your point anyway? Are you trying to say that this guy deserved to die, he&#039;s not, in fact, an innocent victim, because he once rode his bike past you on the sidewalk? And by the way: You want to know why cyclists sometimes ride their bikes on the sidewalk in New York City? It&#039;s because cyclists are still getting killed on our neighborhood streets with frightening regularity. Anyway... shame on you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For chrissake, "anonymous," at least have the simple decency to identify yourself with a real name if you're going to slander a dead man who can't speak up to explain his side of the story. Given that the newspaper accounts of the crash had critical details wrong, why in the world should anyone believe an anonymous commenter on a blog? I mean: What's your point anyway? Are you trying to say that this guy deserved to die, he's not, in fact, an innocent victim, because he once rode his bike past you on the sidewalk? And by the way: You want to know why cyclists sometimes ride their bikes on the sidewalk in New York City? It's because cyclists are still getting killed on our neighborhood streets with frightening regularity. Anyway... shame on you.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56758</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56758</guid>
		<description>Human aggression is human aggression, regardless of the medium. Bicycle, car, bus. Blog. Fortunately some media are less unilaterally dangerous than others.

Thanks Doc Barnett for your thoughtful disagreement. You may be right about everything you&#039;ve said about interpretations, but I stand by what I saw: the rider nearly ran me and my dog over, on the sidewalk, just the day before his crash. That&#039;s the reason I posted. I felt that it was too weird a coincidence not to comment on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Human aggression is human aggression, regardless of the medium. Bicycle, car, bus. Blog. Fortunately some media are less unilaterally dangerous than others.</p>
<p>Thanks Doc Barnett for your thoughtful disagreement. You may be right about everything you've said about interpretations, but I stand by what I saw: the rider nearly ran me and my dog over, on the sidewalk, just the day before his crash. That's the reason I posted. I felt that it was too weird a coincidence not to comment on.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56523</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56523</guid>
		<description>Cyclist / non-cyclist is its own false dichotomy. I tend to group people into civil / anti-social categories, no matter how they&#039;re travelling at the moment. (But it takes a real angel to be civil while driving an automobile in a city that has no room for it.) 

When you wear a uniform and even flourish a bit of jargon to describe it, people are going to perceive you as belonging to a group. Generally, that is what people want when they dress and talk alike. But that&#039;s beside the point. It&#039;s not racers specifically but people endorsing a particular outlook (a romantic view of deadly surface transportation, opposition to institutional improvements) that slow progress. The only common cause I share with them, wishing that drivers would start driving better of their own accord, is made insignificant by its own futility. Livable streets is the constituency I belong to; we&#039;ve got plenty of jargon but so far, no common apparel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cyclist / non-cyclist is its own false dichotomy. I tend to group people into civil / anti-social categories, no matter how they're travelling at the moment. (But it takes a real angel to be civil while driving an automobile in a city that has no room for it.) </p>
<p>When you wear a uniform and even flourish a bit of jargon to describe it, people are going to perceive you as belonging to a group. Generally, that is what people want when they dress and talk alike. But that's beside the point. It's not racers specifically but people endorsing a particular outlook (a romantic view of deadly surface transportation, opposition to institutional improvements) that slow progress. The only common cause I share with them, wishing that drivers would start driving better of their own accord, is made insignificant by its own futility. Livable streets is the constituency I belong to; we've got plenty of jargon but so far, no common apparel.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56468</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56468</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m seeing a lot of false dichotomies being tossed around here. Why does a person on a race bike necessarily represent one type of cycling constituency, while someone else riding a heavy Dutch cruiser represents another? We all want an improved environment for cycling and some of us actually fall into one or more of these false categories depending on the particular context - i.e. one morning I may be commuting on my hybrid, while on another I might be decked out in kit on my road bike on my way to a training ride. I still want the cars to f*#$ off and give me my 3 feet of space and not take me out with a right hook regardless of the circumstances of that particular ride.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm seeing a lot of false dichotomies being tossed around here. Why does a person on a race bike necessarily represent one type of cycling constituency, while someone else riding a heavy Dutch cruiser represents another? We all want an improved environment for cycling and some of us actually fall into one or more of these false categories depending on the particular context - i.e. one morning I may be commuting on my hybrid, while on another I might be decked out in kit on my road bike on my way to a training ride. I still want the cars to f*#$ off and give me my 3 feet of space and not take me out with a right hook regardless of the circumstances of that particular ride.</p>
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		<title>By: Car Free Nation</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56445</link>
		<dc:creator>Car Free Nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56445</guid>
		<description>Anonymous is lying. I&#039;ve rode alongside Jon for many miles, and he never road on the sidewalk; it wasn&#039;t anything he&#039;d even conceive of doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous is lying. I've rode alongside Jon for many miles, and he never road on the sidewalk; it wasn't anything he'd even conceive of doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Rockatansky</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56413</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Rockatansky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56413</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how anonymous is defining a &quot;non-performance cyclist&quot; - would that be a cyclist with a flat tire? However, if you find cycling to be dangerous you&#039;re probably doing it wrong. 

http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2008/03/terminology-folly.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not sure how anonymous is defining a "non-performance cyclist" - would that be a cyclist with a flat tire? However, if you find cycling to be dangerous you're probably doing it wrong. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2008/03/terminology-folly.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2008/03/terminology-folly.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56410</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56410</guid>
		<description>&quot;You acknowledge in your comment that there are &#039;non-performance cyclists.&#039; Why do you assume that they&#039;re not reading and writing on this blog?&quot;

For real. This particular anonymous does strike me as a &quot;nasty elitist&quot;, and a rather confused one. Glorification of danger and dismissal of &quot;bureaucratic, legislative, and/or behavioral&quot; mitigation of it are precisely the qualities that characterize NYC&#039;s elite cyclists that everyone else finds so repugnant. Odd that s/he doesn&#039;t see that. But then, mainstream American cycling (athletic 4ever!) has proudly followed this same self-improvement course for the past 50 years of being crushed under the wheels of automobiles; we can&#039;t expect them to change direction in strategy as quickly as they can change lanes on a tricked-out bicycle. Meanwhile, elitist grannies in Copenhagen tool around in relative safety without owning up to any facts or making responsible use of the danger their wrinkled hands play with. What is their secret? Magical shawls that take them to the plane of kinetic transcendence that NYC&#039;s bikesnobbiest strive to attain? Or! Maybe it is their bureaucratic / legislative bicycle infrastructure, demanded from the government by the bunch of &quot;whiners&quot; that finance and put it in power.

&quot;The article is incorrect. The bus and cyclist were traveling side by side. That would mean that if he ran a red light- then so did the bus. He was not hit by the bus as a result of running a red light. The article almost implies that they were perpendicular- not the case- they were parallel.&quot;

Seeing as one newspaper report vaguely referred to the cyclist &#039;trying to make the light&#039; (then what, newshound?) and the other described the bus as &#039;barrelling&#039;, I was wondering how that could be. When one party to a crash has or nearly has the green light, and the other is moving very fast, it&#039;s hard to construct a scenario where the fast moving vehicle is not at least partially, if not primarily at fault. Dan&#039;s accounting above fills in the blanks that the newspapers chose to leave out.

I can understand the desire of reporters not to pointlessly tarnish a reputation after the police have declared there was no &#039;criminality&#039; (so it wasn&#039;t intentional?), but their discreetly incomplete reporting does a lot more harm to society than good to the individual. It leaves everyone with the impression that killed cyclists are usually to blame for breaking the law or being careless or not wearing a helmet. (If you think about it, this is a useful delusion for all concerned.) That impression turns out to be all hogwash in this case, but tell that to those who have already made up their minds based on what they read (and didn&#039;t read) in the paper—a thousand misinformed &quot;THIS shows why we/they must obey the RULES of the ROAD!&quot; comments have already been posted across the NYC web, and the cycle of &#039;inevitable&#039; traffic deaths is exonerated once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"You acknowledge in your comment that there are 'non-performance cyclists.' Why do you assume that they're not reading and writing on this blog?"</p>
<p>For real. This particular anonymous does strike me as a "nasty elitist", and a rather confused one. Glorification of danger and dismissal of "bureaucratic, legislative, and/or behavioral" mitigation of it are precisely the qualities that characterize NYC's elite cyclists that everyone else finds so repugnant. Odd that s/he doesn't see that. But then, mainstream American cycling (athletic 4ever!) has proudly followed this same self-improvement course for the past 50 years of being crushed under the wheels of automobiles; we can't expect them to change direction in strategy as quickly as they can change lanes on a tricked-out bicycle. Meanwhile, elitist grannies in Copenhagen tool around in relative safety without owning up to any facts or making responsible use of the danger their wrinkled hands play with. What is their secret? Magical shawls that take them to the plane of kinetic transcendence that NYC's bikesnobbiest strive to attain? Or! Maybe it is their bureaucratic / legislative bicycle infrastructure, demanded from the government by the bunch of "whiners" that finance and put it in power.</p>
<p>"The article is incorrect. The bus and cyclist were traveling side by side. That would mean that if he ran a red light- then so did the bus. He was not hit by the bus as a result of running a red light. The article almost implies that they were perpendicular- not the case- they were parallel."</p>
<p>Seeing as one newspaper report vaguely referred to the cyclist 'trying to make the light' (then what, newshound?) and the other described the bus as 'barrelling', I was wondering how that could be. When one party to a crash has or nearly has the green light, and the other is moving very fast, it's hard to construct a scenario where the fast moving vehicle is not at least partially, if not primarily at fault. Dan's accounting above fills in the blanks that the newspapers chose to leave out.</p>
<p>I can understand the desire of reporters not to pointlessly tarnish a reputation after the police have declared there was no 'criminality' (so it wasn't intentional?), but their discreetly incomplete reporting does a lot more harm to society than good to the individual. It leaves everyone with the impression that killed cyclists are usually to blame for breaking the law or being careless or not wearing a helmet. (If you think about it, this is a useful delusion for all concerned.) That impression turns out to be all hogwash in this case, but tell that to those who have already made up their minds based on what they read (and didn't read) in the paper—a thousand misinformed "THIS shows why we/they must obey the RULES of the ROAD!" comments have already been posted across the NYC web, and the cycle of 'inevitable' traffic deaths is exonerated once again.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56376</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56376</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Cycling is inherently dangerous.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;anonymous&quot; (please use a more unique title if you&#039;re here for a conversation), &lt;b&gt;every&lt;/b&gt; form of transportation is inherently dangerous.  People are injured and killed by cars while standing on the sidewalk, or even inside buildings.
&lt;blockquote&gt;That&#039;s part of why we love it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Speak for yourself.  That&#039;s not why all cyclists ride.  Sometimes we just want a way to get from point A to point B reasonably quickly, without the expense and hassle of a car, maybe on a route where the MTA would require multiple transfers, and hopefully get a little exercise.

Sure it&#039;s elitist and entitled for people to expect to speed cycle safely, just like it would be to demand safe parachute-jumping or hang-gliding.  But we&#039;re not asking for that.  We&#039;re asking to be able to go to work without being run over, to go shopping without getting run off the road, and to go to the park without being doored.

But yes, if the &quot;vast noncycling public&quot; really perceives &quot;us&quot; as danger-loving speed demons, then there could be a problem.  The solution is to change that erroneous impression, rather than validating it.

You acknowledge in your comment that there are &quot;non-performance cyclists.&quot;  Why do you assume that they&#039;re not reading and writing on this blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Cycling is inherently dangerous.</p></blockquote>
<p>"anonymous" (please use a more unique title if you're here for a conversation), <b>every</b> form of transportation is inherently dangerous.  People are injured and killed by cars while standing on the sidewalk, or even inside buildings.</p>
<blockquote><p>That's part of why we love it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Speak for yourself.  That's not why all cyclists ride.  Sometimes we just want a way to get from point A to point B reasonably quickly, without the expense and hassle of a car, maybe on a route where the MTA would require multiple transfers, and hopefully get a little exercise.</p>
<p>Sure it's elitist and entitled for people to expect to speed cycle safely, just like it would be to demand safe parachute-jumping or hang-gliding.  But we're not asking for that.  We're asking to be able to go to work without being run over, to go shopping without getting run off the road, and to go to the park without being doored.</p>
<p>But yes, if the "vast noncycling public" really perceives "us" as danger-loving speed demons, then there could be a problem.  The solution is to change that erroneous impression, rather than validating it.</p>
<p>You acknowledge in your comment that there are "non-performance cyclists."  Why do you assume that they're not reading and writing on this blog?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56374</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56374</guid>
		<description>I will limit myself to two comments about the above. One is that I am a cyclist and I do support all of the changes that have happened in the last few years to protect cyclists. 

The other is that the reply sort of proves my point. I was not making a political argument; I was sharing a perspective on a reflexive attitude of entitlement that often surrounds such awful but inevitable outcomes. 

Cycling is inherently dangerous. Riding fast is more so. That&#039;s part of why we love it. For a couple of thousand dollars, and a couple of thousand hours of training, we can get an experience of speed, performance, and control that is arguably unsurpassable in high performance sportscars, motorcycles, airplanes, boats, etc. that cost tens or hundreds of times more. Cycling is the most accessible high performance kinetic experience you can get.

Unlike many posters who seem to think of danger as a sign of some breakdown of the system — something that must be fixed and eliminated through bureaucratic, legislative, and/or behavioral means — I&#039;m saying that it&#039;s something that must be acknowledged and managed responsibly.

Until we own up to this fact, and commit ourselves to more responsible use of the danger we play with, I believe that we will (with some justice) continue to be perceived as entitled whiners by the vast noncycling public, as nasty elitists by non-performance cyclists, and as illegitimate interlopers by drivers of the cars, trucks, and yes, empty schoolbuses that will always inhabit the roads with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will limit myself to two comments about the above. One is that I am a cyclist and I do support all of the changes that have happened in the last few years to protect cyclists. </p>
<p>The other is that the reply sort of proves my point. I was not making a political argument; I was sharing a perspective on a reflexive attitude of entitlement that often surrounds such awful but inevitable outcomes. </p>
<p>Cycling is inherently dangerous. Riding fast is more so. That's part of why we love it. For a couple of thousand dollars, and a couple of thousand hours of training, we can get an experience of speed, performance, and control that is arguably unsurpassable in high performance sportscars, motorcycles, airplanes, boats, etc. that cost tens or hundreds of times more. Cycling is the most accessible high performance kinetic experience you can get.</p>
<p>Unlike many posters who seem to think of danger as a sign of some breakdown of the system — something that must be fixed and eliminated through bureaucratic, legislative, and/or behavioral means — I'm saying that it's something that must be acknowledged and managed responsibly.</p>
<p>Until we own up to this fact, and commit ourselves to more responsible use of the danger we play with, I believe that we will (with some justice) continue to be perceived as entitled whiners by the vast noncycling public, as nasty elitists by non-performance cyclists, and as illegitimate interlopers by drivers of the cars, trucks, and yes, empty schoolbuses that will always inhabit the roads with us.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56333</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56333</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I saw the rider in question arrogantly riding fast on the sidewalk past pedestrians just a day or two before his fatal crash. He showed not a touch of concern for them as he zoomed by. Others have said that he ran the red light. [...] But to innocently throw up our hands and cry for even more privileges as cyclists, when we do not adequately respect others on the road, is an ugly entitlement [...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Forgive me if I show some skepticism for this anonymous, unconfirmed report of &lt;i&gt;the most egregious&lt;/i&gt; cycling behavior, usually not practiced by &quot;elite&quot; cyclists - linked directly to a glib, caustic reiteration of the latest anti-livable-streets talking points.

As far as I know, no one is asking for &quot;even more privileges&quot; because of this.  The main response is that Eighth Avenue is dangerous, the signal retiming was not enough, and more needs to be done to protect pedestrians, cyclists &lt;b&gt;and&lt;/b&gt; people traveling in cars and buses.

I myself hide behind anonymity, but I do not use it to speak ill of the dead, and I do not take advantage of a man&#039;s death to attack safety initiatives that could have saved his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I saw the rider in question arrogantly riding fast on the sidewalk past pedestrians just a day or two before his fatal crash. He showed not a touch of concern for them as he zoomed by. Others have said that he ran the red light. [...] But to innocently throw up our hands and cry for even more privileges as cyclists, when we do not adequately respect others on the road, is an ugly entitlement [...]</p></blockquote>
<p>Forgive me if I show some skepticism for this anonymous, unconfirmed report of <i>the most egregious</i> cycling behavior, usually not practiced by "elite" cyclists - linked directly to a glib, caustic reiteration of the latest anti-livable-streets talking points.</p>
<p>As far as I know, no one is asking for "even more privileges" because of this.  The main response is that Eighth Avenue is dangerous, the signal retiming was not enough, and more needs to be done to protect pedestrians, cyclists <b>and</b> people traveling in cars and buses.</p>
<p>I myself hide behind anonymity, but I do not use it to speak ill of the dead, and I do not take advantage of a man's death to attack safety initiatives that could have saved his life.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Naparstek</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56332</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Naparstek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56332</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an eye-witness account of the crash that differs from what was reported in the newspaper:

&lt;blockquote&gt;http://rollingresistance.net/word/2008/09/bike-crash-kills-helper-to-troubled-young-men/#comment-1573

Dan Romero
Posted September 12, 2008 at 12:52 pm

I was approx 30 feet away from this accident and saw it happen. It was the most awful thing I have ever seen. The article is incorrect. The bus and cyclist were traveling side by side. That would mean that if he ran a red light- then so did the bus. He was not hit by the bus as a result of running a red light. The article almost implies that they were perpendicular- not the case- they were parallel. I don’t think it was the bus’ fault, nevertheless. It was just a freak accident. Out of respect for Mr. Millstein, I feel it’s important to set the record straight.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's an eye-witness account of the crash that differs from what was reported in the newspaper:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://rollingresistance.net/word/2008/09/bike-crash-kills-helper-to-troubled-young-men/#comment-1573" rel="nofollow">http://rollingresistance.net/word/2008/09/bike-crash-kills-helper-to-troubled-young-men/#comment-1573</a></p>
<p>Dan Romero<br />
Posted September 12, 2008 at 12:52 pm</p>
<p>I was approx 30 feet away from this accident and saw it happen. It was the most awful thing I have ever seen. The article is incorrect. The bus and cyclist were traveling side by side. That would mean that if he ran a red light- then so did the bus. He was not hit by the bus as a result of running a red light. The article almost implies that they were perpendicular- not the case- they were parallel. I don’t think it was the bus’ fault, nevertheless. It was just a freak accident. Out of respect for Mr. Millstein, I feel it’s important to set the record straight.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56331</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56331</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a tragedy and it could happen to any cyclist. But we need to stop reflexively blaming motorists (or pedestrians, or city bureaucrats, or anyone but ourselves) for these inevitable incidents. I saw the rider in question arrogantly riding fast on the sidewalk past pedestrians just a day or two before his fatal crash. He showed not a touch of concern for them as he zoomed by. Others have said that he ran the red light.

God knows I am guilty of both of these infractions, and worse, in my time. But to innocently throw up our hands and cry for even more privileges as cyclists, when we do not adequately respect others on the road, is an ugly entitlement that ultimately endangers no one more than ourselves. 

My heart goes out to the family. I hope they can forgive me for speaking out this way in their time of grief. The community of elite cyclists needs to own the fact that they are engaged in a dangerous activity whose chief virtue as such is that it endangers themselves more than it endangers others. Unlike aggressive motorcycle riders, or worse, aggressive car and truck drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's a tragedy and it could happen to any cyclist. But we need to stop reflexively blaming motorists (or pedestrians, or city bureaucrats, or anyone but ourselves) for these inevitable incidents. I saw the rider in question arrogantly riding fast on the sidewalk past pedestrians just a day or two before his fatal crash. He showed not a touch of concern for them as he zoomed by. Others have said that he ran the red light.</p>
<p>God knows I am guilty of both of these infractions, and worse, in my time. But to innocently throw up our hands and cry for even more privileges as cyclists, when we do not adequately respect others on the road, is an ugly entitlement that ultimately endangers no one more than ourselves. </p>
<p>My heart goes out to the family. I hope they can forgive me for speaking out this way in their time of grief. The community of elite cyclists needs to own the fact that they are engaged in a dangerous activity whose chief virtue as such is that it endangers themselves more than it endangers others. Unlike aggressive motorcycle riders, or worse, aggressive car and truck drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily Gertz</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56310</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Gertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56310</guid>
		<description>larry wrote:

&gt;The solution is the two-way cycle track on Prospect Park West, park side.

Yes, exactly!

t,

With respect, your points are not well taken..

On weekdays, outside of commuting hours (when cars are on the road), there is plenty of room for everyone on the loop road.  

On the day Mr. Obnoxious cursed me out, he and a buddy were riding down the outer edge of the road, which is quite usual for the faster riders, and I was riding up the inside (park side).  There was a ton of space between us.   

So if you want to talk about signage, well, these two guys were not riding in the bike lane, thus making the park road hazardous for people entering the park. 


&gt;How much distance are you saving by riding that way?

I saved roughly three quarters of the distance around the park - so, er, 3.75 kilometers out of 5 -- and a long uphill haul.

Not that a desire to save distance while running an errand on a bike is inherently wrong, in any case.

&gt; There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don&#039;t have to ride the entire way around.

The traverses have a number of very isolated spots, and are nearly deserted during the weekdays.  Anyone should think twice about taking the traverses during most daylight hours of the weekdays.  

&gt; I guess I just find it ironic to be upset at jerky cyclists -- who, admittedly, can be jerks -- when you are actually doing something that most signs in the park encourage you not to do.

This amounts to blaming the messenger.  City agencies are not doing enough to make the local avenues safer for me to ride my bicycle in the neighborhood, but I should stick to the letter of city agency rules when I ride through the park the &quot;wrong&quot; way to avoid the dangerous streets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>larry wrote:</p>
<p>&gt;The solution is the two-way cycle track on Prospect Park West, park side.</p>
<p>Yes, exactly!</p>
<p>t,</p>
<p>With respect, your points are not well taken..</p>
<p>On weekdays, outside of commuting hours (when cars are on the road), there is plenty of room for everyone on the loop road.  </p>
<p>On the day Mr. Obnoxious cursed me out, he and a buddy were riding down the outer edge of the road, which is quite usual for the faster riders, and I was riding up the inside (park side).  There was a ton of space between us.   </p>
<p>So if you want to talk about signage, well, these two guys were not riding in the bike lane, thus making the park road hazardous for people entering the park. </p>
<p>&gt;How much distance are you saving by riding that way?</p>
<p>I saved roughly three quarters of the distance around the park - so, er, 3.75 kilometers out of 5 -- and a long uphill haul.</p>
<p>Not that a desire to save distance while running an errand on a bike is inherently wrong, in any case.</p>
<p>&gt; There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don't have to ride the entire way around.</p>
<p>The traverses have a number of very isolated spots, and are nearly deserted during the weekdays.  Anyone should think twice about taking the traverses during most daylight hours of the weekdays.  </p>
<p>&gt; I guess I just find it ironic to be upset at jerky cyclists -- who, admittedly, can be jerks -- when you are actually doing something that most signs in the park encourage you not to do.</p>
<p>This amounts to blaming the messenger.  City agencies are not doing enough to make the local avenues safer for me to ride my bicycle in the neighborhood, but I should stick to the letter of city agency rules when I ride through the park the "wrong" way to avoid the dangerous streets?</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56252</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56252</guid>
		<description>Have just written an elegant &amp; sensitive comment all this but when I submitted it, it disappeared into cyberspace so pl forgive if this is less elegant tho will try to keep the sensitivity going...

I am desparately sad to hear of this poor man&#039;s tragic &amp; unnecessary death. I think the question now is how to prevent others.This very afternoon I drove up 8th Ave past the accident spot; as I was waiting at the lights right beside this spot, I saw a cyclist ride across a red light on the wrong side of the road (incidentally with no helmet) - she was lucky but I am frankly appalled by the cavalier attitude of so many cyclists in this city to the law...they not only disregard traffic lights, road directions etc but ride at night in dark clothes (many) with no lights or reflectors (most); why is this tolerated here? It isn&#039;t in other first world cities. I believe cyclists should have rights but with those rights go responsibilities, not least a duty to obey the law.

A few yards further on, there stood a van double parked; there was plenty of space for him to park alongside the kerb but he couldnt becos there was a fire hydrant. I realise freeing up the hydrant spaces wouldn&#039;t give many more parking spots to what I call &quot;No-Park Slope &quot; (apparently only 3% of spaces available at any time ) but what is this big deal with hydrants? In other cities, fire trucks do not expect some 30 feet of space for a foot wide hose, and please don&#039;t tell me that a fire truck is going to parallel park in an emergency... In fact, some months ago I saw a fire truck on an emergency unable to pass a double parked car which had chosen to park this way instead of next to the adjacent hydrant! (By the way I understand many of these hydrants are not even operational). The squeeze on parking spaces caused by hydrants (amongst other things) leads to people justifying double parking.

Altho I have driven for 35 years and have a clean record, becos my licences were non US, I have recently had to take the full driving test here (inc a 5 hour seminar designed for rookie drivers - aagh!);the one &amp; only abiding lesson I learnt from this rigmarole was how wide the gap is between the theory of how one is supposed to drive in this State and the reality of the actual driving taking place on the street, esp in NYC. And it appears to be tolerated; an example - I asked a policeman to do s&#039;thing abt a car driver nearly running some people (who had the right of way) over on a pedestrian crossing the other day &amp; his response was to shrug his shoulders.

So my suggestions would be :1. enforce the law for everyone - cyclists, double parkers etc
2. modernise the law so that anachronisms such as the hydrant thing are no longer adding to the parking problems
3. zero tolerance for bad driving

Again my sympathies go to the family of this poor man and let us ALL do our part to reduce the chance of further such accidents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have just written an elegant &amp; sensitive comment all this but when I submitted it, it disappeared into cyberspace so pl forgive if this is less elegant tho will try to keep the sensitivity going...</p>
<p>I am desparately sad to hear of this poor man's tragic &amp; unnecessary death. I think the question now is how to prevent others.This very afternoon I drove up 8th Ave past the accident spot; as I was waiting at the lights right beside this spot, I saw a cyclist ride across a red light on the wrong side of the road (incidentally with no helmet) - she was lucky but I am frankly appalled by the cavalier attitude of so many cyclists in this city to the law...they not only disregard traffic lights, road directions etc but ride at night in dark clothes (many) with no lights or reflectors (most); why is this tolerated here? It isn't in other first world cities. I believe cyclists should have rights but with those rights go responsibilities, not least a duty to obey the law.</p>
<p>A few yards further on, there stood a van double parked; there was plenty of space for him to park alongside the kerb but he couldnt becos there was a fire hydrant. I realise freeing up the hydrant spaces wouldn't give many more parking spots to what I call "No-Park Slope " (apparently only 3% of spaces available at any time ) but what is this big deal with hydrants? In other cities, fire trucks do not expect some 30 feet of space for a foot wide hose, and please don't tell me that a fire truck is going to parallel park in an emergency... In fact, some months ago I saw a fire truck on an emergency unable to pass a double parked car which had chosen to park this way instead of next to the adjacent hydrant! (By the way I understand many of these hydrants are not even operational). The squeeze on parking spaces caused by hydrants (amongst other things) leads to people justifying double parking.</p>
<p>Altho I have driven for 35 years and have a clean record, becos my licences were non US, I have recently had to take the full driving test here (inc a 5 hour seminar designed for rookie drivers - aagh!);the one &amp; only abiding lesson I learnt from this rigmarole was how wide the gap is between the theory of how one is supposed to drive in this State and the reality of the actual driving taking place on the street, esp in NYC. And it appears to be tolerated; an example - I asked a policeman to do s'thing abt a car driver nearly running some people (who had the right of way) over on a pedestrian crossing the other day &amp; his response was to shrug his shoulders.</p>
<p>So my suggestions would be :1. enforce the law for everyone - cyclists, double parkers etc<br />
2. modernise the law so that anachronisms such as the hydrant thing are no longer adding to the parking problems<br />
3. zero tolerance for bad driving</p>
<p>Again my sympathies go to the family of this poor man and let us ALL do our part to reduce the chance of further such accidents.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Trafford</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56230</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Trafford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56230</guid>
		<description>Interesting Bike Snob (see Blogs links @ right) post about this today...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting Bike Snob (see Blogs links @ right) post about this today...</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56228</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56228</guid>
		<description>Emily: Not to derail this thread, but what do you mean &quot;counterclockwise&quot;? Do you mean against traffic? If so, please please please stop. The wrong-way cyclists is probably the single-most dangerous obstacle on the road. The fear of being rear-ended is natural but completely unfounded. Always ride with traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily: Not to derail this thread, but what do you mean "counterclockwise"? Do you mean against traffic? If so, please please please stop. The wrong-way cyclists is probably the single-most dangerous obstacle on the road. The fear of being rear-ended is natural but completely unfounded. Always ride with traffic.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56224</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56224</guid>
		<description>&quot;How much distance are you saving by riding that way? There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don&#039;t have to ride the entire way around.&quot;

Well, there is that hill on the other side of the park.

The solution is the two-way cycle track on Prospect Park West, park side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"How much distance are you saving by riding that way? There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don't have to ride the entire way around."</p>
<p>Well, there is that hill on the other side of the park.</p>
<p>The solution is the two-way cycle track on Prospect Park West, park side.</p>
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		<title>By: charles miller</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56218</link>
		<dc:creator>charles miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56218</guid>
		<description>I live with my wife and daughter at the corner of President and Eighth Ave.  We heard the commotion and sirens.  Thank god I was not outside with my young daughter when it happened.  I have called 311 many times to complain about speeders at this intersection who try to beat the light.  They need to slow down the sequencing of the lights on the avenue to further slow traffic.  
As for the bus, later that day another bus quite literally sped at a clearly excessive speed through the RED light of the same intersection!  I copied down the number and company of the bus and will make a complaint but it is like spitting in the ocean.  
Call 311 and complain, anybody who cares, please.
Can you imagine that they want to turn 7th ave into a one way street?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live with my wife and daughter at the corner of President and Eighth Ave.  We heard the commotion and sirens.  Thank god I was not outside with my young daughter when it happened.  I have called 311 many times to complain about speeders at this intersection who try to beat the light.  They need to slow down the sequencing of the lights on the avenue to further slow traffic.<br />
As for the bus, later that day another bus quite literally sped at a clearly excessive speed through the RED light of the same intersection!  I copied down the number and company of the bus and will make a complaint but it is like spitting in the ocean.<br />
Call 311 and complain, anybody who cares, please.<br />
Can you imagine that they want to turn 7th ave into a one way street?!</p>
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		<title>By: t</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56204</link>
		<dc:creator>t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56204</guid>
		<description>Emily,

I&#039;m assuming you were riding counter-clockwise in Prospect Park.  While I share some of your disdain for &quot;serious&quot; riders, I have to admit that it&#039;s still fairly dangerous for you to be riding against the normal riding pattern of the park loop.  How much distance are you saving by riding that way?  There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don&#039;t have to ride the entire way around.

I guess I just find it ironic to be upset at jerky cyclists -- who, admittedly, can be jerks -- when you are actually doing something that most signs in the park encourage you not to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily,</p>
<p>I'm assuming you were riding counter-clockwise in Prospect Park.  While I share some of your disdain for "serious" riders, I have to admit that it's still fairly dangerous for you to be riding against the normal riding pattern of the park loop.  How much distance are you saving by riding that way?  There are also places in the park where you can cut across so you don't have to ride the entire way around.</p>
<p>I guess I just find it ironic to be upset at jerky cyclists -- who, admittedly, can be jerks -- when you are actually doing something that most signs in the park encourage you not to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/09/10/cyclist-reported-killed-in-park-slope/comment-page-1/#comment-56188</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=4541#comment-56188</guid>
		<description>This is an absolute tragedy, but if the news reports that he ran the red light are correct, this is yet another wake up call that cyclists need to be better educated about the rules of the road. On my bike, I stop at every stop sign and red light in this city - not just because it&#039;s the law, but because I worry about my safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an absolute tragedy, but if the news reports that he ran the red light are correct, this is yet another wake up call that cyclists need to be better educated about the rules of the road. On my bike, I stop at every stop sign and red light in this city - not just because it's the law, but because I worry about my safety.</p>
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