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	<title>Comments on: French Trains Turn $1.75B Profit, Leave American Rail in the Dust</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-2/#comment-55504</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-55504</guid>
		<description>One practice among many experienced travelers is to travel light!  Current mass transit is legacy technology based on very large, heavy, over-powered vehicles with the intent to move a lot of people fast by packing huge numbers of them into these cumbersome and often uncomfortable vehicles and moving them fast.  It does not account for people having to travel on their own to and from these vehicles, nor does it account for wait times and the lack of resilience and reliability in systems based on this awkward way to travel.  Rapid transit is much more effectively achieved when individuals can rapidly move themselves.  If a transit system can provide assistance especially, in high density situations, or during off-peak hours with automated steering, collision avoidance, and direct non-stop highway style travel all in place, so much the better!

During low-use off-peak transit systems are awful because of costs.  This need not be the case.  Peak transit is also a nightmare because of costs.

With most legacy technology there gets to be a point where it costs too much to use any more and should be replaced by newer, better methods.  This is the situation of transportation today.  

The costs are too low.  The risks are too small not to start the changeover.

Small, light, hybrid human-electric technology promises cost savings, levels of resilience, convenience, practicality, and comfort that will far outstrip initial development investments within an extremely short time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One practice among many experienced travelers is to travel light!  Current mass transit is legacy technology based on very large, heavy, over-powered vehicles with the intent to move a lot of people fast by packing huge numbers of them into these cumbersome and often uncomfortable vehicles and moving them fast.  It does not account for people having to travel on their own to and from these vehicles, nor does it account for wait times and the lack of resilience and reliability in systems based on this awkward way to travel.  Rapid transit is much more effectively achieved when individuals can rapidly move themselves.  If a transit system can provide assistance especially, in high density situations, or during off-peak hours with automated steering, collision avoidance, and direct non-stop highway style travel all in place, so much the better!</p>
<p>During low-use off-peak transit systems are awful because of costs.  This need not be the case.  Peak transit is also a nightmare because of costs.</p>
<p>With most legacy technology there gets to be a point where it costs too much to use any more and should be replaced by newer, better methods.  This is the situation of transportation today.  </p>
<p>The costs are too low.  The risks are too small not to start the changeover.</p>
<p>Small, light, hybrid human-electric technology promises cost savings, levels of resilience, convenience, practicality, and comfort that will far outstrip initial development investments within an extremely short time.</p>
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		<title>By: Change NOW</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-2/#comment-54989</link>
		<dc:creator>Change NOW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54989</guid>
		<description>this article (incredulously, considering the Olympics in Beijing) left out all of Asia has also surpassed us; including such &quot;developing&quot; nations such as China, which has modern mag-lev and other technologies we haven&#039;t even dreamt of....Taiwan just modernized its&#039; entire national rail system; these nations, despite our neocon attempts to portray them as backwards, are much more open than our society, trains over there come from all over Europe and there is a lot of competition to build them, driving down prices, since we are so insular and xenophobic, I doubt any European company would even come here to build; look at attempts to modernize and expand wind, for instance, and the local redneck (and elitist who don&#039;t want their aesthetic impacts to cause them to have a seizure; this was really brought up during discussion on wind law!!!!) revolt...elitist, my ass....mcbush is ignorant as hell....god help us all.....after dum s h i t gets the boot FINALLY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this article (incredulously, considering the Olympics in Beijing) left out all of Asia has also surpassed us; including such "developing" nations such as China, which has modern mag-lev and other technologies we haven't even dreamt of....Taiwan just modernized its' entire national rail system; these nations, despite our neocon attempts to portray them as backwards, are much more open than our society, trains over there come from all over Europe and there is a lot of competition to build them, driving down prices, since we are so insular and xenophobic, I doubt any European company would even come here to build; look at attempts to modernize and expand wind, for instance, and the local redneck (and elitist who don't want their aesthetic impacts to cause them to have a seizure; this was really brought up during discussion on wind law!!!!) revolt...elitist, my ass....mcbush is ignorant as hell....god help us all.....after dum s h i t gets the boot FINALLY</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-2/#comment-54952</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54952</guid>
		<description>Extensive government subsidy of current very expensive transit practices may serve as the most likely delay to a much more beneficial broad implementation of small light vehicular transport and transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extensive government subsidy of current very expensive transit practices may serve as the most likely delay to a much more beneficial broad implementation of small light vehicular transport and transit.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-54462</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54462</guid>
		<description>Another advantage of small light transit vehicles is that for higher speeds the rails do not have to be as straight as for large heavy vehicles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another advantage of small light transit vehicles is that for higher speeds the rails do not have to be as straight as for large heavy vehicles.</p>
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		<title>By: Alain Chiaroni</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-54402</link>
		<dc:creator>Alain Chiaroni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54402</guid>
		<description>paulb: The company that makes the high speed trains in France claims a 300 to 350 mile trip as the &quot;ideal&quot; distance. You look at distances in the USA between the major cities and there are many that exceed this by a lot--Denver-SF, NY-Chicago, NY-Atlanta, Chicago-Dallas, SF-Seattle.

This is not accurate. Look at the map of the French rail network http://www.bonjourlafrance.net/france-map/france-train-maps.htm

Marseille Paris by TGV departure 8:20 Paris Gare de Lyon, arrival 11:20 Marseille, 783 km (489 miles)
Exactly 3 hours!
Check http://bonjourlafrance.net/france-trains/tgv-mediterranean/schedules/paris-ile-de-france-aix-en-provence-marseille-toulon.htm

3 hours for 489 miles! Wouldn&#039;t you say this an ideal distance?
And by plane?
If you take everything, trips to and from airports, security checkings, delays (it happens all the time) and all kinds of waiting, it will take longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>paulb: The company that makes the high speed trains in France claims a 300 to 350 mile trip as the "ideal" distance. You look at distances in the USA between the major cities and there are many that exceed this by a lot--Denver-SF, NY-Chicago, NY-Atlanta, Chicago-Dallas, SF-Seattle.</p>
<p>This is not accurate. Look at the map of the French rail network <a href="http://www.bonjourlafrance.net/france-map/france-train-maps.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bonjourlafrance.net/france-map/france-train-maps.htm</a></p>
<p>Marseille Paris by TGV departure 8:20 Paris Gare de Lyon, arrival 11:20 Marseille, 783 km (489 miles)<br />
Exactly 3 hours!<br />
Check <a href="http://bonjourlafrance.net/france-trains/tgv-mediterranean/schedules/paris-ile-de-france-aix-en-provence-marseille-toulon.htm" rel="nofollow">http://bonjourlafrance.net/france-trains/tgv-mediterranean/schedules/paris-ile-de-france-aix-en-provence-marseille-toulon.htm</a></p>
<p>3 hours for 489 miles! Wouldn't you say this an ideal distance?<br />
And by plane?<br />
If you take everything, trips to and from airports, security checkings, delays (it happens all the time) and all kinds of waiting, it will take longer.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-54164</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54164</guid>
		<description>#47 T&#039;s &quot;profitable European rail companies&quot; analysis further confirms the intrinsic high costs and extreme waste intrinsic in what is considered to be the global conventional wisdom of large heavy vehicle transit practice literally driving people to automobiles from of a deficiency of comfortable, convenient, and practical options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#47 T's "profitable European rail companies" analysis further confirms the intrinsic high costs and extreme waste intrinsic in what is considered to be the global conventional wisdom of large heavy vehicle transit practice literally driving people to automobiles from of a deficiency of comfortable, convenient, and practical options.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-54126</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-54126</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;profitable&quot; European rail companies.  See Amtrak Inspector General report, showing that &quot;profits&quot; are dwarfed (by a factor of 10-20) by indirect subsidies through the infrastructure companies.  See especially chart at bottom of page 5, http://www.amtrakoig.com/reports/E-08-02-042208.PDF

Maybe Amtrak needs to play the same game.  Issue two sets of annual reports, one of which is engineered to show a profit.  Then dare the naysayers to shut down the &quot;profitable&quot; operations half by refusing to fund the loss-making infrastructure half.  I know the information is already in their annual report, but nobody looks at it.  If you issue two sets of reports, you can recreate the European situation and change the terms of debate.

People are creatures of misconception.  They want a sound-bite takeaway, not a nuanced explanation of just why Amtrak makes a loss.  So give them what they want to hear -- give them a &quot;profitable&quot; Amtrak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: "profitable" European rail companies.  See Amtrak Inspector General report, showing that "profits" are dwarfed (by a factor of 10-20) by indirect subsidies through the infrastructure companies.  See especially chart at bottom of page 5, <a href="http://www.amtrakoig.com/reports/E-08-02-042208.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://www.amtrakoig.com/reports/E-08-02-042208.PDF</a></p>
<p>Maybe Amtrak needs to play the same game.  Issue two sets of annual reports, one of which is engineered to show a profit.  Then dare the naysayers to shut down the "profitable" operations half by refusing to fund the loss-making infrastructure half.  I know the information is already in their annual report, but nobody looks at it.  If you issue two sets of reports, you can recreate the European situation and change the terms of debate.</p>
<p>People are creatures of misconception.  They want a sound-bite takeaway, not a nuanced explanation of just why Amtrak makes a loss.  So give them what they want to hear -- give them a "profitable" Amtrak.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53940</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53940</guid>
		<description>Try a thought experiment of 188 Segways weighing 100 pounds and costing $5,000 each on and off an automated palate system maybe similar to the UPS Worldport sorting facility weighing a total of 18,800 pounds and costing a total of $940,000 that can be used as transportation to and from the system as well; all at less than a third of the weight of a subway car and costing less and on the way to being a lot faster, more convenient, practical, and comfortable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try a thought experiment of 188 Segways weighing 100 pounds and costing $5,000 each on and off an automated palate system maybe similar to the UPS Worldport sorting facility weighing a total of 18,800 pounds and costing a total of $940,000 that can be used as transportation to and from the system as well; all at less than a third of the weight of a subway car and costing less and on the way to being a lot faster, more convenient, practical, and comfortable.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53796</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53796</guid>
		<description>43 gecko, (continued some more) Since linear induction motor operation is similar to the way particles are moved in accelerators at close to the speed of light, speed is not an issue either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>43 gecko, (continued some more) Since linear induction motor operation is similar to the way particles are moved in accelerators at close to the speed of light, speed is not an issue either.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53691</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53691</guid>
		<description>#43 gecko, (continued) Highways serve a similar purpose though lack the degree of automation of a transit system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#43 gecko, (continued) Highways serve a similar purpose though lack the degree of automation of a transit system.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53689</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53689</guid>
		<description>This is part of the idea as human-scaled vehicles adapted to transit would likely have the capability of being highly automatic and self-running to address transit densities.

Late at night you have to walk to the train, wait for train, and walk home.

With the vehicle discussed you use the vehicle to get to the transit system and immediately get on it.  The the vehicle would automatically travel on the system to the point closest to your destination and get off.  

You then use it to go the final stretch home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is part of the idea as human-scaled vehicles adapted to transit would likely have the capability of being highly automatic and self-running to address transit densities.</p>
<p>Late at night you have to walk to the train, wait for train, and walk home.</p>
<p>With the vehicle discussed you use the vehicle to get to the transit system and immediately get on it.  The the vehicle would automatically travel on the system to the point closest to your destination and get off.  </p>
<p>You then use it to go the final stretch home.</p>
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		<title>By: Urbanis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53684</link>
		<dc:creator>Urbanis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53684</guid>
		<description>I guess I want the option for a transportation conveyance where I am merely a passive passenger (I neither have to power nor steer nor do anything else but ride on it). Why? Because I may be encumbered or exhausted or physically disabled or unfamiliar with the route, etc. For example, last night coming home from the Battery I got tuckered out around 125th St. As I still had another 5 miles to go, I decided to call it a night and take the subway the rest of the way home. I was glad I could do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I want the option for a transportation conveyance where I am merely a passive passenger (I neither have to power nor steer nor do anything else but ride on it). Why? Because I may be encumbered or exhausted or physically disabled or unfamiliar with the route, etc. For example, last night coming home from the Battery I got tuckered out around 125th St. As I still had another 5 miles to go, I decided to call it a night and take the subway the rest of the way home. I was glad I could do so.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53680</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53680</guid>
		<description>#38 Urbanis, (continued)  Regarding urban transit, just look at the numbers, the difficulties you&#039;ve experienced, and the ongoing difficulties.  

Does NYC transit practice really make sense?

A lot of times people -- large inflexible institutions -- get used to doing things the difficult way and stick with it out of habit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#38 Urbanis, (continued)  Regarding urban transit, just look at the numbers, the difficulties you've experienced, and the ongoing difficulties.  </p>
<p>Does NYC transit practice really make sense?</p>
<p>A lot of times people -- large inflexible institutions -- get used to doing things the difficult way and stick with it out of habit.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sandblom</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53678</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sandblom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53678</guid>
		<description>Urbanis, I too like human-powered vehicles. But clearly the train is the better alternative if you want to get from Paris to Marseille (takes three hours by TGV).

But gecko has a point. What kind of journeys are all the metros and buses geared at? Over 50 per cent of subway journeys in central London are quicker on foot. How many are faster by bicycle? Probably lots!
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=15612

This is a problem. One way to approach it is to raise the price of monthly passes and lower the price of punch cards. This gives people an incentive to cycle or walk to work once a week, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urbanis, I too like human-powered vehicles. But clearly the train is the better alternative if you want to get from Paris to Marseille (takes three hours by TGV).</p>
<p>But gecko has a point. What kind of journeys are all the metros and buses geared at? Over 50 per cent of subway journeys in central London are quicker on foot. How many are faster by bicycle? Probably lots!<br />
<a href="http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=15612" rel="nofollow">http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=15612</a></p>
<p>This is a problem. One way to approach it is to raise the price of monthly passes and lower the price of punch cards. This gives people an incentive to cycle or walk to work once a week, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53677</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53677</guid>
		<description>#38 Urbanis, Your are right.  Riding a bike to Albany is not practical but it is possible to create vehicles on the same scale as your bicycle that would be practical to make the trip.  

A non-elite athlete on Optibike using a 600-Watt electric motor did about 100 miles in 4 hours during the 2005 Tour de Sol in Albany so, that is starting to get there.  

Elite athletes on faired recumbent bicycles and human power only, have achieved speeds greater than 80 miles per hour for distances of about 200 feet and it seems that a 1500-watt (2 horsepower) motor is probably scaled to produce the necessary power.


So . . .

For it to start getting practical some fairly simple things could be done such as using a larger motor and a recumbent style bicycle which can be a lot more comfortable with a real seat and more streamlined.

Other adaptations addressing practicality would include safety and weather considerations and probably involve Kevlar, carbon fiber, or other special materials and even on-demand inflatable armoring (airbags) and adaptable enclosures.

Riding on conventional highways might not be practical and there is at least one option to this which would also address the increased storage requirements of larger motors.  In fact there are rail systems that serve as a type of motor called linear induction motors (LIM) and a small vehicle on the scale of your bicycle could be adapted to travel on and off small pallets moving on LIM rail systems.

An inexpensive maglev capability using permanent magnet Halbach arrays could greatly reduce moving parts and especially, the wear-and-tear and stresses at higher speeds.

This is the direction that things could go to develop a practical vehicle that would take you up to Albany.

Going across country would require systems and vehicles capable of higher speeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#38 Urbanis, Your are right.  Riding a bike to Albany is not practical but it is possible to create vehicles on the same scale as your bicycle that would be practical to make the trip.  </p>
<p>A non-elite athlete on Optibike using a 600-Watt electric motor did about 100 miles in 4 hours during the 2005 Tour de Sol in Albany so, that is starting to get there.  </p>
<p>Elite athletes on faired recumbent bicycles and human power only, have achieved speeds greater than 80 miles per hour for distances of about 200 feet and it seems that a 1500-watt (2 horsepower) motor is probably scaled to produce the necessary power.</p>
<p>So . . .</p>
<p>For it to start getting practical some fairly simple things could be done such as using a larger motor and a recumbent style bicycle which can be a lot more comfortable with a real seat and more streamlined.</p>
<p>Other adaptations addressing practicality would include safety and weather considerations and probably involve Kevlar, carbon fiber, or other special materials and even on-demand inflatable armoring (airbags) and adaptable enclosures.</p>
<p>Riding on conventional highways might not be practical and there is at least one option to this which would also address the increased storage requirements of larger motors.  In fact there are rail systems that serve as a type of motor called linear induction motors (LIM) and a small vehicle on the scale of your bicycle could be adapted to travel on and off small pallets moving on LIM rail systems.</p>
<p>An inexpensive maglev capability using permanent magnet Halbach arrays could greatly reduce moving parts and especially, the wear-and-tear and stresses at higher speeds.</p>
<p>This is the direction that things could go to develop a practical vehicle that would take you up to Albany.</p>
<p>Going across country would require systems and vehicles capable of higher speeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Urbanis</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53671</link>
		<dc:creator>Urbanis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53671</guid>
		<description>Hi Gecko #36, I love riding my bicycle to get around, and I am all for human-powered vehicles, but are you saying there&#039;s no future for subways, trains, buses, ships, and other large-scale mass transit conveyances? How else does one travel long-distance? It is not practical for me, for example, to ride my bicycle to Albany, let alone to San Francisco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gecko #36, I love riding my bicycle to get around, and I am all for human-powered vehicles, but are you saying there's no future for subways, trains, buses, ships, and other large-scale mass transit conveyances? How else does one travel long-distance? It is not practical for me, for example, to ride my bicycle to Albany, let alone to San Francisco.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53665</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53665</guid>
		<description>&quot;With the exception of Grand Central Station or the train station in Philadelphia, most stations across this country are not places where anyone would want to linger.&quot;

Notice those old, grand stations were all built by private companies. Even in smaller cities (look at New Haven&#039;s gorgeous station) the companies built palaces to their private empires. Of course it&#039;s indicative of the problem; the government did pretty much nothing for those companies except allowing them to ravage the resources of the country and later actively built a system that forced private passenger rail carriers into existence. 

Rail has never been funded by our government. We lost Penn Station to this and almost lost Grand Central for the same reason. And unfortunately urban politicians have never held in modern times truly powerful positions in government in order to funnel funding to rail projects. Instead we&#039;re stuck with rural or suburban politicians, especially outside the northeast, who naturally gravitate away from rail (except those in Montana who know rail is the only wait out). Obama being from Chicago has seemed to inflict his mind with some reason, but who knows for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"With the exception of Grand Central Station or the train station in Philadelphia, most stations across this country are not places where anyone would want to linger."</p>
<p>Notice those old, grand stations were all built by private companies. Even in smaller cities (look at New Haven's gorgeous station) the companies built palaces to their private empires. Of course it's indicative of the problem; the government did pretty much nothing for those companies except allowing them to ravage the resources of the country and later actively built a system that forced private passenger rail carriers into existence. </p>
<p>Rail has never been funded by our government. We lost Penn Station to this and almost lost Grand Central for the same reason. And unfortunately urban politicians have never held in modern times truly powerful positions in government in order to funnel funding to rail projects. Instead we're stuck with rural or suburban politicians, especially outside the northeast, who naturally gravitate away from rail (except those in Montana who know rail is the only wait out). Obama being from Chicago has seemed to inflict his mind with some reason, but who knows for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53602</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53602</guid>
		<description>Considering resource allocation, energy efficiency, convenience, practicality, there’s a sense of farce envisioning that elephant in the room with a human riding as metaphor for train travel and conventional transit.

Folks, we&#039;re talking about really high vehicle weights per person ratios on the order of 1.8 times optimum when these things run at capacity, transporting people pack-style, with massive power plants, with some improvements in energy savings compared to the worst of all travel methods:  cars with even higher and wasteful vehicle weights per person overpowered to ridiculousness.

These behemoths are so large and unwieldy, Mohammed must go to the mountain, wait for them to arrive, pile in with all others, etc., etc., etc. . . . .

Bicycles with fractional vehicle weights per person and vehicles of similar scale -- completely capable of ubiquitous distribution always close for use on-demand with no wait times and the potential of high speeds -- provide transport to a comparatively Edenesque future with ludicrously easy here-and-now technology.

Rough numbers
A 50-pound bicycle or human-scale vehicle carrying a 200-pound person has a vehicle weight per person of 50 pounds divided by 200 pounds that equals 0.25:  with 50 pounds as a weight easily carried in a backpack though probably not advised for people with bad backs.

A 67,800-pound subway car that has a 188-person capacity transports about 361 pounds of steel, glass, plastic, etc. per 200-pound person with a vehicle weight per person of 1.8 (for R142A cabless subway cars): the 361 pounds being a weight easily carried by an industrial pallet truck.

reference:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R142A_%28New_York_City_Subway_car%29</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering resource allocation, energy efficiency, convenience, practicality, there’s a sense of farce envisioning that elephant in the room with a human riding as metaphor for train travel and conventional transit.</p>
<p>Folks, we're talking about really high vehicle weights per person ratios on the order of 1.8 times optimum when these things run at capacity, transporting people pack-style, with massive power plants, with some improvements in energy savings compared to the worst of all travel methods:  cars with even higher and wasteful vehicle weights per person overpowered to ridiculousness.</p>
<p>These behemoths are so large and unwieldy, Mohammed must go to the mountain, wait for them to arrive, pile in with all others, etc., etc., etc. . . . .</p>
<p>Bicycles with fractional vehicle weights per person and vehicles of similar scale -- completely capable of ubiquitous distribution always close for use on-demand with no wait times and the potential of high speeds -- provide transport to a comparatively Edenesque future with ludicrously easy here-and-now technology.</p>
<p>Rough numbers<br />
A 50-pound bicycle or human-scale vehicle carrying a 200-pound person has a vehicle weight per person of 50 pounds divided by 200 pounds that equals 0.25:  with 50 pounds as a weight easily carried in a backpack though probably not advised for people with bad backs.</p>
<p>A 67,800-pound subway car that has a 188-person capacity transports about 361 pounds of steel, glass, plastic, etc. per 200-pound person with a vehicle weight per person of 1.8 (for R142A cabless subway cars): the 361 pounds being a weight easily carried by an industrial pallet truck.</p>
<p>reference:  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R142A_%28New_York_City_Subway_car%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R142A_%28New_York_City_Subway_car%29</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53600</guid>
		<description>Re the bullet points above, see full post by Alan Drake on theoildrum.com, including additional commentary:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4301</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re the bullet points above, see full post by Alan Drake on theoildrum.com, including additional commentary:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4301" rel="nofollow">http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4301</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lee Watkins</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-53598</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Watkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/#comment-53598</guid>
		<description>PROBLEMS: 

• Excessive Oil Consumption by the USA, much higher than OECD average
• Economic, Energy, and Environmental costs with related National Security issues that result from excessive oil consumption
• No Real Plan to Significantly Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions
• Lack of Non-Oil Transportation: there are no alternatives for essential transportation that don’t use oil
• Inadequate Railroad Capacity
• Speed and reliability of today’s Rail Freight cannot compete with Truck Freight for many cargoes
• Weak Electrical Grid with limited inter-regional transmission and stability problems
• Lack of markets and transmission capacity for remote Prime Wind Farm Sites
• Chronic Under-investment in long lived, beneficial infrastructure

QUICK FIX:  

• Electrify 36,000 miles of mainline railroads
• Expand Railroad capacity and speed by adding double tracks, better signals and more grade separation
• New 110 mph tracks for passengers and freight added to existing rail ROWs as a second step
• In many, but not all cases, use the railroad ROW as new electrical transmission line corridors
• Promote the use of rail lines, usually spur lines, as wind turbine sites with rail transported cranes and materials
• Take advantage of the lower marginal economic costs of railroads, where the more we use it, the less it costs per unit. A diffuse economic benefit for many sectors of the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PROBLEMS: </p>
<p>• Excessive Oil Consumption by the USA, much higher than OECD average<br />
• Economic, Energy, and Environmental costs with related National Security issues that result from excessive oil consumption<br />
• No Real Plan to Significantly Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions<br />
• Lack of Non-Oil Transportation: there are no alternatives for essential transportation that don’t use oil<br />
• Inadequate Railroad Capacity<br />
• Speed and reliability of today’s Rail Freight cannot compete with Truck Freight for many cargoes<br />
• Weak Electrical Grid with limited inter-regional transmission and stability problems<br />
• Lack of markets and transmission capacity for remote Prime Wind Farm Sites<br />
• Chronic Under-investment in long lived, beneficial infrastructure</p>
<p>QUICK FIX:  </p>
<p>• Electrify 36,000 miles of mainline railroads<br />
• Expand Railroad capacity and speed by adding double tracks, better signals and more grade separation<br />
• New 110 mph tracks for passengers and freight added to existing rail ROWs as a second step<br />
• In many, but not all cases, use the railroad ROW as new electrical transmission line corridors<br />
• Promote the use of rail lines, usually spur lines, as wind turbine sites with rail transported cranes and materials<br />
• Take advantage of the lower marginal economic costs of railroads, where the more we use it, the less it costs per unit. A diffuse economic benefit for many sectors of the economy.</p>
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