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	<title>Comments on: Streetfilms: Depaving Day in Portland</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-53817</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-53817</guid>
		<description>We are working to do this in NYC. please help. Need: volunteers in September, dumpster/s, arrangements for recycling or carting away, sledgehammers and pickaxes, flat shovels, garbage bags, food, juice, music...other ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are working to do this in NYC. please help. Need: volunteers in September, dumpster/s, arrangements for recycling or carting away, sledgehammers and pickaxes, flat shovels, garbage bags, food, juice, music&#8230;other ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52405</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52405</guid>
		<description>I mentioned this to my wife, and she said, &quot;It sounds like that Talking Heads lyric.&quot;
I said, &quot;You mean, &#039;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talking-heads.net/lyrics_true.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Underneath the concrete the dream is still alive&lt;/a&gt;&#039;?&quot;
She said, &quot;No, the other one.&quot;
&quot;&#039;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talking-heads.net/lyrics_naked.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Once there were parking lots, Now there&#039;s a peaceful oasis&lt;/a&gt;&#039;?&quot;
&quot;Yeah, that one.&quot;

I think I&#039;ve settled on &quot;Prohibiting is prohibited.&quot;  Here are some reminiscences from the author of &quot;Sous les pavés...&quot;:

http://users.skynet.be/ddz/mai68/temoignages/souslespaves.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentioned this to my wife, and she said, &#8220;It sounds like that Talking Heads lyric.&#8221;<br />
I said, &#8220;You mean, &#8216;<a href="http://www.talking-heads.net/lyrics_true.html" rel="nofollow">Underneath the concrete the dream is still alive</a>&#8216;?&#8221;<br />
She said, &#8220;No, the other one.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;&#8216;<a href="http://www.talking-heads.net/lyrics_naked.html" rel="nofollow">Once there were parking lots, Now there&#8217;s a peaceful oasis</a>&#8216;?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Yeah, that one.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve settled on &#8220;Prohibiting is prohibited.&#8221;  Here are some reminiscences from the author of &#8220;Sous les pavés&#8230;&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://users.skynet.be/ddz/mai68/temoignages/souslespaves.html" rel="nofollow">http://users.skynet.be/ddz/mai68/temoignages/souslespaves.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sam Clifford</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52403</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52403</guid>
		<description>Amazing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing!</p>
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		<title>By: dbs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52367</link>
		<dc:creator>dbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52367</guid>
		<description>Yes to DePaving!

Every time it rains in NYC, the stormwater landing on impervious (aka non-vegetated or non-porously paved surfaces) flows down the drain and flows through the sewer system to the Wastewater Treatment plants for treatment.  If the treatment plants are above capacity, the stormwater, combined with raw sewage, ends up overflowing into our waterways, not good for fish or triathletes.

The stormwater rate is included on a 1:1 ratio in the potable water-delivery rates in NYC (and in many most other cities.)  Users who use little or no potable water, or at least generate a disproportionate amount of stormwater compared to potable usage, are esssentially recieving a subsidy on their use of the sewer system.  Those users include parking lot owners, big box stores, NYCDOT and NYSDOT roadways (another hidden cost that drivers impose on our city) and The Port Authority&#039;s airport runways.

Of course, the subsidy is provided by the City&#039;s poorest residents, since they use more potable water than wealthier residents (they live at higher densities, which means more toilet flushing, they go out to eat less often, go on vacation less often, etc.)

So, when water rates go up, those who suffer most are those who can least afford it.  And, on July 1, Water Rates will rise 14.5%, the largest single year jump in recent history.  
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/press_releases/08-13pr.shtml

When water rates go up, so to, does rent.  One of the primary factors the Rent Guidelines Board uses to determine hike is increase in utility rates.
(The Rent Stabilization Law sets forth the factors that must be considered by the Board prior to the adoption of rent guidelines. These include: (1) the economic condition of the residential real estate industry in N.Y.C. including such factors as the prevailing and projected 
(i) real estate taxes and sewer and water rates...
Source: http://www.housingnyc.com/html/guidelines/guidelines.html )

So, essentially, not only are the poorest folks subsidizing others&#039; stormwater usage, their rents are rising because of it...and the larger the increase, the closer an apartment comes to becoming market-rate.

If all this is confusing, it is no wonder.  Water and pavement were never meant to meet.

A great article on Stormwater User Fee can be found here:
http://www.stormh2o.com/may-2008/program-funding-management.aspx

If the NYC Water Board http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycwaterboard/html/board_members/index.shtml began billing for stormwater separate from potable water, and as a real reflection on usage, it would instantaneously do wonders for DePave projects, protect affordable housing, reduce combined sewer overflow, and perhaps even reduce traffic in this small town on the Hudson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes to DePaving!</p>
<p>Every time it rains in NYC, the stormwater landing on impervious (aka non-vegetated or non-porously paved surfaces) flows down the drain and flows through the sewer system to the Wastewater Treatment plants for treatment.  If the treatment plants are above capacity, the stormwater, combined with raw sewage, ends up overflowing into our waterways, not good for fish or triathletes.</p>
<p>The stormwater rate is included on a 1:1 ratio in the potable water-delivery rates in NYC (and in many most other cities.)  Users who use little or no potable water, or at least generate a disproportionate amount of stormwater compared to potable usage, are esssentially recieving a subsidy on their use of the sewer system.  Those users include parking lot owners, big box stores, NYCDOT and NYSDOT roadways (another hidden cost that drivers impose on our city) and The Port Authority&#8217;s airport runways.</p>
<p>Of course, the subsidy is provided by the City&#8217;s poorest residents, since they use more potable water than wealthier residents (they live at higher densities, which means more toilet flushing, they go out to eat less often, go on vacation less often, etc.)</p>
<p>So, when water rates go up, those who suffer most are those who can least afford it.  And, on July 1, Water Rates will rise 14.5%, the largest single year jump in recent history.<br />
<a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/press_releases/08-13pr.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/press_releases/08-13pr.shtml</a></p>
<p>When water rates go up, so to, does rent.  One of the primary factors the Rent Guidelines Board uses to determine hike is increase in utility rates.<br />
(The Rent Stabilization Law sets forth the factors that must be considered by the Board prior to the adoption of rent guidelines. These include: (1) the economic condition of the residential real estate industry in N.Y.C. including such factors as the prevailing and projected<br />
(i) real estate taxes and sewer and water rates&#8230;<br />
Source: <a href="http://www.housingnyc.com/html/guidelines/guidelines.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.housingnyc.com/html/guidelines/guidelines.html</a> )</p>
<p>So, essentially, not only are the poorest folks subsidizing others&#8217; stormwater usage, their rents are rising because of it&#8230;and the larger the increase, the closer an apartment comes to becoming market-rate.</p>
<p>If all this is confusing, it is no wonder.  Water and pavement were never meant to meet.</p>
<p>A great article on Stormwater User Fee can be found here:<br />
<a href="http://www.stormh2o.com/may-2008/program-funding-management.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.stormh2o.com/may-2008/program-funding-management.aspx</a></p>
<p>If the NYC Water Board <a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycwaterboard/html/board_members/index.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycwaterboard/html/board_members/index.shtml</a> began billing for stormwater separate from potable water, and as a real reflection on usage, it would instantaneously do wonders for DePave projects, protect affordable housing, reduce combined sewer overflow, and perhaps even reduce traffic in this small town on the Hudson.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52315</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52315</guid>
		<description>Speaking of language, &quot;food forest&quot; ? I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of language, &#8220;food forest&#8221; ? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52313</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52313</guid>
		<description>Maybe, &quot;Prohibition prohibited,&quot; but that makes people think of moonshine and speakeasies.  Maybe &quot;Outlawing prohibited.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, &#8220;Prohibition prohibited,&#8221; but that makes people think of moonshine and speakeasies.  Maybe &#8220;Outlawing prohibited.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52312</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52312</guid>
		<description>I know, Da.  The problem is that &quot;interdit de&quot; is extremely common in France; there are signs everywhere.  In the US, how often do you see &quot;forbidden&quot; on a sign?&quot;  Translating it as &quot;forbidden&quot; makes it sound quaint and Victorian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, Da.  The problem is that &#8220;interdit de&#8221; is extremely common in France; there are signs everywhere.  In the US, how often do you see &#8220;forbidden&#8221; on a sign?&#8221;  Translating it as &#8220;forbidden&#8221; makes it sound quaint and Victorian.</p>
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		<title>By: da</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52310</link>
		<dc:creator>da</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 04:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52310</guid>
		<description>Angus, the translation I always heard was, &quot;It is forbidden to forbid!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angus, the translation I always heard was, &#8220;It is forbidden to forbid!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52302</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52302</guid>
		<description>Outlawing is unlawful, Da.  Love those stilts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outlawing is unlawful, Da.  Love those stilts!</p>
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		<title>By: Sikbug</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52292</link>
		<dc:creator>Sikbug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52292</guid>
		<description>I mean this seems really cool for someplace like NYC, but it&#039;s freckn Portland and just from the video you can see how much open space is around there. I dunno, I mean it&#039;s a good idea but not a good place for it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean this seems really cool for someplace like NYC, but it&#8217;s freckn Portland and just from the video you can see how much open space is around there. I dunno, I mean it&#8217;s a good idea but not a good place for it?</p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52286</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52286</guid>
		<description>Nice.  We can do that here and give it to DOT for recycling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.  We can do that here and give it to DOT for recycling.</p>
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		<title>By: da</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52278</link>
		<dc:creator>da</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52278</guid>
		<description>Under the paving stones, the beach!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Under the paving stones, the beach!</p>
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		<title>By: Spud Spudly</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/comment-page-1/#comment-52257</link>
		<dc:creator>Spud Spudly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/19/streetfilms-depaving-day-in-portland/#comment-52257</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s freaking brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s freaking brilliant.</p>
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