Other people post here who haven't decided that they want liveable streets, and sometimes we argue with them and try to explain why we want them. But our major focus on this blog is not revisiting this decision over and over again, it's discussing how best to achieve our goal.

There are other areas where we can debate the merits of car-dependent vs. walking/transit/cycling lifestyles. Streetsblog is not intended for that kind of debate.

You can both see some value in shifting people away from car use and towards transit, walking and cycling, right? Please feel welcome to participate if you do. If you'd prefer to argue this point, you may very well get low-quality counter-arguments. That's the way it is.

Meanwhile
"self-entitled" - believe peds and bikes should be safely and equitably accommodated on city streets;
---self entitled because you clearly think that it's "my way or the wrong way".

"lack empathy" - refuse to be forced to exist in an environment dominated by a single mode of transportation that they neither possess nor utilize;
---lack of empathy because you don't grasp that other people may have reasonable cause for their actions even if they are not ones you favor.

"recycle misinformation" - cite studies and statistics our opposition is unfamiliar with, rather than erroneous conventional wisdom;
-- I'm new here so I can't comment with any authority but in the discussion I seem to have spurred I've only been offered one link to serious info and have seen a bunch of sloppy info and ad hominems.

"hold Columbia as a good model of government" - look to other cultures for examples of best practices
--and studiously ignore someone from another culture whose experience doesn't fit your meme.

"hubris" - devotion
---more like self-satisfied and I'll wager completely hypocritical (ie, use A/C, fly to vacations, shop at stores stocked by truck, eat food that isn't grown locally, download pirated music etc etc.)

- It is ludicrous that it is cheaper to drive into the city and park for free than it is to take mass transit. So forget the $2 ERB and HRB tolls and make 'em $6 (with EZ-Pass BTW collection doesn't cost much); people are lazy and prefer to drive. Make them pay for the right to do so.
- 60% of drivers into Manhattan park for free on the streets. Eliminate this through permit parking which is in every other major city worldwide. Even if it only works partly it is better than not having it at all. I used to think it should be citywide but now I think it should only be where it is needed; all of Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx.

And for those of you calling congestion pricing, tolls and permit parking regressive taxes you are wrong. An increase in transit fares is regressive as it hits the non-car-owning public the most. Anything to do with auto fees by definition is not regressive as it hits the relatively wealthy segment of the population.

What gave you the impression I own a car? That was not the point of my comments to "brother".

My point was that unless one toes the line on this blog, one gets vilified.
It is the converted preaching to the converted. I only read it to get news on transportation issues.

That is why I so rarely comment, because how does one have a rational discussion with zealots?

Your comment and another angry commenter proved my point. E.g., you assume I drive a car from Bklyn to Manhattan. I don't. Similarly, it is likely that many of the other assumptions on this blog are false.

I was only trying to provide a public service to 'Brother', not to waste his time in debate on this blog. He cannot win.

I shall now take my advice, and sign off.

self-entitled, lack empathy

Thanks, Harry. I actually find it somewhat difficult to identify any sub-set of the human species more self-entitled and lacking in empathy than the New York City car commuter. It's bad enough that our 5% of the world's population consumes 25% of the world's energy. But now we're even feeding corn and grain to our cars, driving up food prices, literally, taking food off the plates of people in poorer parts of the world. For what? So Harry or whomever can continue to have a convenient and inexpensive commute from Flatbush to Midtown via single-passenger Escalade? And now we're all supposed to feel sorry for your "pain at the pump?"

Self-entitled and lacking empathy, indeed.

Instead of just limiting it to one main thoroughfare running North/South, connect the east and west sides with temporary greenways running along some streets. Connecting the east and west side greenways seems like such an obvious idea... Why couldn't they connect the Queensboro Bridge to Central Park? What about a weekend temporary greenway to get cyclists up to the GWB so they wouldn't have to crowd the west side greenway? How's about a route up to Van Cortland Park so we can pick up the South County Rail Trail?

I don't think they've gone far enough to really show people what this sort of thing can do. I'm disappointed.

I tried commenting, but don't waste my time on such futile enterprises anymore.

Maybe you would have had better luck if you'd managed to write a comment that didn't insult every other commenter in the thread.

I am my car ... those who restrict my car are rejecting me as a person ... I am offended. Silence them!

I thought Brother got off to a good start with his original post. It merited discussion, and got some. But one shouldn't be surprised when people in a liveable-streets forum advocate livable-streets issues.

I am my feet, but hey, at least they're attached to my body.

"self-entitled" - believe peds and bikes should be safely and equitably accommodated on city streets

"lack empathy" - refuse to be forced to exist in an environment dominated by a single mode of transportation that they neither possess nor utilize

"recycle misinformation" - cite studies and statistics our opposition is unfamiliar with, rather than erroneous conventional wisdom

"hold Columbia as a good model of government" - look to other cultures for examples of best practices

"hubris" - devotion

You're wasting your time on this blog.

It is the same coterie constantly and they know more than you do, they'll have you know that. Don't argue about traffic congestion in London with them. What do you know? You only are from there, These zealots on the other hand know more and know what is best for everyone else in the world.

I tried commenting, but don't waste my time on such futile enterprises anymore.

These are the committed who, as you say, are self-entitled, lack empathy, recycle misinformation, hold Colombia as a model of good government, and whose hubris you can never surmount.

What you will hear is the whirring of bicycle wheels, the sounds of children playing, and the footfalls of thousand of pedestrians enjoying the new public spaces and patronizing local businesses.

Whatever evening news Annie was watching probably took its lead from Monday's NY Sun article. It's not like too many of these TV editors do any original work.

That's the idea, but in this case the improvment is to walking and biking by taking space away from cars.

As for public transportation, it's purpose is to pay for past debts, pensions and retiree health care, not to move people around. As people are going to find out.