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	<title>Comments on: The Windshield Perspective, Same As It Ever Was</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: dbs</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51572</link>
		<dc:creator>dbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51572</guid>
		<description>Yeah Ben, the headline says it all.

Same as it ever was.  (Once in a Lifetime, Talking Heads, 1980)

    And you may ask yourself
    Where is that large automobile?
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful house!
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful wife!

The main portion of the lyric is said to be based on a preacher heard on the radio by Byrne and Eno while they were DRIVING through New York!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_in_a_Lifetime_(Talking_Heads_song)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Ben, the headline says it all.</p>
<p>Same as it ever was.  (Once in a Lifetime, Talking Heads, 1980)</p>
<p>    And you may ask yourself<br />
    Where is that large automobile?<br />
    And you may tell yourself<br />
    This is not my beautiful house!<br />
    And you may tell yourself<br />
    This is not my beautiful wife!</p>
<p>The main portion of the lyric is said to be based on a preacher heard on the radio by Byrne and Eno while they were DRIVING through New York!</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_in_a_Lifetime_(Talking_Heads_song)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_in_a_Lifetime_(Talking_Heads_song)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51567</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51567</guid>
		<description>I agree, Larry, and so does Bob Fitch:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n3_v46/ai_15608012
http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/26/a-weekend-subway-ride-with-robert-moses/#comment-29436
http://www.versobooks.com/books/cdef/ef-titles/fitch_r_new_york_2e.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Larry, and so does Bob Fitch:</p>
<p><a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n3_v46/ai_15608012" rel="nofollow">http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n3_v46/ai_15608012</a><br />
<a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/26/a-weekend-subway-ride-with-robert-moses/#comment-29436" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/26/a-weekend-subway-ride-with-robert-moses/#comment-29436</a><br />
<a href="http://www.versobooks.com/books/cdef/ef-titles/fitch_r_new_york_2e.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.versobooks.com/books/cdef/ef-titles/fitch_r_new_york_2e.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51563</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51563</guid>
		<description>The Power Broker contains a lot of good points, but as a piece of social science it lacks quite a bit.  

It reads as if Robert Moses had the power to singlehandedly foist the shift to auto dependence on an unwilling public.  And that shift to auto dependence was the sole cause of NYC neighborhoods previously occupied by the middle class becoming occupied by the poor.

I think Moses had power because he did what many people wanted, not people did what he wanted because he had power over them.  At the time there were rich people who had cars and aspirational people who wanted them.  

When the consequences kicked in, highway building virtually stopped in this country.  People still wanted more and bigger cars, but not highways in their neighborhood.  Now other consequences have come along.

Moreover, NY stopped building transit lines because it started rebuilding the existing system, something that is still not finished.  Until the 1970s, when infrastructure investment in the NY area stopped entirely, road and transit.

And neighborhoods with no highways anywhere near them became poorer, such as Bushwick, Bedford Stuyvesant and Browsville, while those with highways sometimes did not, like Windsor Terrace.  His argument that highways caused neighborhood change is based on the timing of white flight in one location -- East Tremont.

Moses was important, and did many things that turned out to be good and many things that turned out to be bad.  But let&#039;s not ignore the individual decisions of millions of people and tens of thousands of business and other organizations when discussing what caused change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Power Broker contains a lot of good points, but as a piece of social science it lacks quite a bit.  </p>
<p>It reads as if Robert Moses had the power to singlehandedly foist the shift to auto dependence on an unwilling public.  And that shift to auto dependence was the sole cause of NYC neighborhoods previously occupied by the middle class becoming occupied by the poor.</p>
<p>I think Moses had power because he did what many people wanted, not people did what he wanted because he had power over them.  At the time there were rich people who had cars and aspirational people who wanted them.  </p>
<p>When the consequences kicked in, highway building virtually stopped in this country.  People still wanted more and bigger cars, but not highways in their neighborhood.  Now other consequences have come along.</p>
<p>Moreover, NY stopped building transit lines because it started rebuilding the existing system, something that is still not finished.  Until the 1970s, when infrastructure investment in the NY area stopped entirely, road and transit.</p>
<p>And neighborhoods with no highways anywhere near them became poorer, such as Bushwick, Bedford Stuyvesant and Browsville, while those with highways sometimes did not, like Windsor Terrace.  His argument that highways caused neighborhood change is based on the timing of white flight in one location -- East Tremont.</p>
<p>Moses was important, and did many things that turned out to be good and many things that turned out to be bad.  But let's not ignore the individual decisions of millions of people and tens of thousands of business and other organizations when discussing what caused change.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51561</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51561</guid>
		<description>I read The Power Broker just a few years ago when two different friends said in different conversations, almost word for word, &quot;if you want to know why New York is the way it is, you have to read this book.&quot;

I think the most destructive part of Robert Moses&#039; legacy, even more than what he did, is what he didn&#039;t do. He effectively stopped federal and other money from flowing into mass transit for generations. Imagine how history might have been different if this brilliant man had been interested in multimodal transport instead of just cars and roads. It practically makes me cry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read The Power Broker just a few years ago when two different friends said in different conversations, almost word for word, "if you want to know why New York is the way it is, you have to read this book."</p>
<p>I think the most destructive part of Robert Moses' legacy, even more than what he did, is what he didn't do. He effectively stopped federal and other money from flowing into mass transit for generations. Imagine how history might have been different if this brilliant man had been interested in multimodal transport instead of just cars and roads. It practically makes me cry.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51552</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51552</guid>
		<description>The DOTs are NUTs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The DOTs are NUTs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51548</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 02:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51548</guid>
		<description>I just have to tell people to read The Power Broker to truly get a sense of the scale of the delusion that is road building in the US.  It was and is widely known by both traffic engineers and planners that increasing capacity and building new routes would not and does not make a difference in congestion.   It&#039;s truly absurd that we have spent so much time and energy trying to pave our way out of this problem.  There are a lot of people who should be ashamed at having emptied the public treasury to build roads that they knew would barely ease congestion for drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just have to tell people to read The Power Broker to truly get a sense of the scale of the delusion that is road building in the US.  It was and is widely known by both traffic engineers and planners that increasing capacity and building new routes would not and does not make a difference in congestion.   It's truly absurd that we have spent so much time and energy trying to pave our way out of this problem.  There are a lot of people who should be ashamed at having emptied the public treasury to build roads that they knew would barely ease congestion for drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51546</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51546</guid>
		<description>By the way, if Time/Life wants to go back to the history of the auto, it should look to its ads, not its articles.   

I was once given (and unfortunately threw away) some old Life magazines from the same era.  What struck me was a bunch of two-page ads from the Ford Motor Company, presenting the automobile (and the suburbs) as an escape to a new, better way of life.  

You weren&#039;t just buying a means of transportation.  You were buying a way of life and a dream.

One of them was titled &quot;escape to the greenbelt&quot; which talked about how kids in the cities went bad, until the first automobiles changed things by allowing families to escape to a more natural environment (which looked nothing like Hempstead Turnpike).

Would make a great project for some young, artistically capable folk to collect and duplicate -- with a different message.  Our values are shaped on Madison Avenue, not in our churches, schools and homes I&#039;m afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if Time/Life wants to go back to the history of the auto, it should look to its ads, not its articles.   </p>
<p>I was once given (and unfortunately threw away) some old Life magazines from the same era.  What struck me was a bunch of two-page ads from the Ford Motor Company, presenting the automobile (and the suburbs) as an escape to a new, better way of life.  </p>
<p>You weren't just buying a means of transportation.  You were buying a way of life and a dream.</p>
<p>One of them was titled "escape to the greenbelt" which talked about how kids in the cities went bad, until the first automobiles changed things by allowing families to escape to a more natural environment (which looked nothing like Hempstead Turnpike).</p>
<p>Would make a great project for some young, artistically capable folk to collect and duplicate -- with a different message.  Our values are shaped on Madison Avenue, not in our churches, schools and homes I'm afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51545</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51545</guid>
		<description>(he was concerned that if his teenage daughter could ride a bus home from the mall, then some creep could get off the bus behind her and attack her.)

Actually, two of the four or five significant crimes in Windsor Terrace in the past two decades have been just that -- attacks after being followed home from the subway, one rape at 4 am, one push-in murder.  I tell my daughers to beware of people following them, and push-in attacks.

On the other hand, there have been at least two widely publicized auto accident deaths in my hood that time as well, in addition to someone struck by lightning nearby in Prospect Park and some 9/11 deaths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(he was concerned that if his teenage daughter could ride a bus home from the mall, then some creep could get off the bus behind her and attack her.)</p>
<p>Actually, two of the four or five significant crimes in Windsor Terrace in the past two decades have been just that -- attacks after being followed home from the subway, one rape at 4 am, one push-in murder.  I tell my daughers to beware of people following them, and push-in attacks.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there have been at least two widely publicized auto accident deaths in my hood that time as well, in addition to someone struck by lightning nearby in Prospect Park and some 9/11 deaths.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Grieve-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/comment-page-1/#comment-51537</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Grieve-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/06/the-windshield-perspective-same-as-it-ever-was/#comment-51537</guid>
		<description>This is an amazing find.  The only part I don&#039;t agree on is this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;provides mobile shelter for rakes intent on seducing his daughters&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Maybe I should see if it works at the next Community Board meeting, though!

Actually, at a 1998 hearing I attended on a proposal to expand the bus system in Albuquerque, one City Council member - who probably wasn&#039;t much older than I am now - said that he was concerned that if his teenage daughter could ride a bus home from the mall, then some creep could get off the bus behind her and attack her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an amazing find.  The only part I don't agree on is this:</p>
<blockquote><p>provides mobile shelter for rakes intent on seducing his daughters</p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe I should see if it works at the next Community Board meeting, though!</p>
<p>Actually, at a 1998 hearing I attended on a proposal to expand the bus system in Albuquerque, one City Council member - who probably wasn't much older than I am now - said that he was concerned that if his teenage daughter could ride a bus home from the mall, then some creep could get off the bus behind her and attack her.</p>
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