I'm surprised no one has pointed out that streetcar tracks, not necessarily the streetcars themselves, are quite dangerous to cyclists. A wheel goes into the slot and you are finished if there's other traffic around.

All modes of travel have an inherent level of danger. Light rail can be deadly, as Harry's family history attests. But buses can be just as deadly. One tragedy, no matter how emotionally wrought it may be, does not make a trend. It would be more useful to cite statistics about relative safety of trolleys versus buses to make a case either way. I think that both of them are probably about the same, but I don't have statistics to back that up.

What is more relevant, I think, is that private automobiles are far, far more deadly than either one. They kill 45,000 people in the United States alone each year. The goal should be to get as many people as possible to stop using cars so much, not just because they're so lethal, but because they're warming the planet and making our nation dependent on nations that don't like us. So, the question is what is more effective at attracting people out of their cars?

I suspect light rail is a more powerful attractor than buses, and I've seen numerous light rail advocates who have studies to that effect, none of which I can produce at this moment.

The most important thing is probably the status of the right-of-way. Light rail with its own right-of-way beats buses in traffic. Buses with their own right-of-way beat light rail in traffic.

Right! People had to dodge trolleys or risk injury."

That's what happens when you build a field around trolley tracks.

One who is struck by something constrained to a rail is probably most likely at fault for not looking. I lived in a European city with one of the most extensive tram networks in the world and there was one simple rule to follow. Look before crossing some tracks. Besides, modern low-floor trams also benefit from very good braking systems, rarely exceed 20mph while sharing car traffic and can stop quite quickly as I've personally experienced should a car run a stop sign. I don't think it's a good idea for large vehicles to swerve anyway. They could easily blindside a pedestrian, cyclist or small vehicle.

The older pattern seems to have been suburban commuter rail that connects to a big station downtown, or suburban trolleys that connect to downtown tunnels like the Newark City Subway, Philadelphia's trolleys and the San Francisco Muni.

Have you no shame?

Have you no manners?

"Likely" is a word frequently used in the field of statistics and probability. Have you ever had an academic course in these disciplines? I have. It is fascinating. Perhaps you should.

However, you are the person to characterize a neutral word like 'likely' and introduce "weasel" to define it. Then, you have the audacity to criticize others!

Have you no shame?

What don't you understand about the meaning of"likely".

I understand that it's a weasel word. It doesn't change the fact that you don't know how to argue politely.

You raise a point worth discussing, and if you stop belittling other people and calling names, I'd be happy to discuss it.

This is why virtually all new light rail lines run on dedicated lanes. Bus Rapid Transit also runs on dedicated lanes, ideally separated from the traffic lane by a curb. They can't swerve to avoid pedestrians, but because they are separated from the car lanes by curbing, pedestrians are not likely to walk out in front them.

I'm sorry about your grandfather but his death on a European trolley track in the 1940s doesn't add up to a conclusive statement that urban light rail is unsafe, unwanted or unappealing.

Many older Brooklynites have a great deeal of affection for trolleys. They were a big part of our identity until GM bought out our trolley lines and replaced them with diesel-spewing buses. The buses we never loved and, essentially, pushed many of us into private automobiles, stealing street space from kids, vendors and stickball. Yes, indeed, we were "Trolley Dodgers" growing up in Brooklyn. So much so, that we named our beloved baseball team after our favored and dominant mode of transportation. Today we are SUV Dodgers, I guess.

The modern trolley systems I've seen in cities like Portland, Paris, Berlin and Amsterdam are pretty fantastic and, I'm sure, produce fewer car crashes, injuries and fatalities than our highways and roadways do. I know I'm not alone in hoping to see trolleys brought back to Brooklyn some day soon.

You write regarding #16:"painting its proponents as out-of-touch suburbanites or out-of-towners."

What don't you understand about the meaning of"likely"." Read what I wrote:"you were LIKELY a Cincinnati Reds fan"
.
Of course, some native NYers want trolleys, but those who witnessed them were mostly glad to see them go.

That is why they were removed. They were a nightmare.

And for those who continue to say trollyes are "safe", see my post #16.

Tell my widowed grandmother and her 8 young children raised without a father that trolleys are safe.

Get real, please!

But you wouldn't know much about Bklyn, since you were likely a Cincinnati Reds fan, or perhaps the Portland Trail blazers. Maybe the Seattle Mariners. They have trolleys there.

Must be nice to be able to dismiss any argument you don't like by painting its proponents as out-of-touch suburbanites or out-of-towners.

My family's been in New York for five generations and counting. My mom misses the trolleys. Just because there were some positives about getting rid of them doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

As for the "traffic chaos and delays and honking," the solution is obvious -- eliminate private cars.

I don't know all the details and it is possible even that he walked in front of it.
However, it is very likely a bus would have swerved out of the way. Trolleys do not have that capability. That is the bottom line.

So, don't say trolleys are safe. They are ipso facto not as safe as buses. Right?

Moreover, I do remember the nightmares that the trolleys caused in Brooklyn. Traffic chaos and delays and honking. I lived it while many of you were not yet a gleam in your mother's eye in suburbia. So please don't preach to me until you witnessed what I witnessed.

Do you not know how the B'klyn Dodgers got their name? It was shortened from the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers.

Right! People had to dodge trolleys or risk injury.

But you wouldn't know much about Bklyn, since you were likely a Cincinnati Reds fan, or perhaps the Portland Trail blazers. Maybe the Seattle Mariners. They have trolleys there.