Now to be clear, I think they're completely wrong - dangerously so! And the over-the-top outrageousness is a bit much.

However a few Streetsblog readers have been leaving comments, and they're been responding with long, series posts that reveal that they're not just angry wingnuts.

One thing that is troubling. They're also saying that their comments on Streetsblog have been taken down. Does this go on here?

If so, that's not good. A debate should never be silenced because we don't like what the other side says. Plus it means that our positions aren't being challenged.

Why not let them post their comments here?

http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/05/22/pete-at-streetsblog-few-ideas-at-commuter-outrage/

Looks like these guys are really going at it. My question is how could any rational sane CONSERVATIVE be against congestion pricing? It's a market based solution - aren't these guys supposed to worship the free market?

We should keep an eye on Commuter Outrage, since it looks like they're going to be targeting us more in the future. This is the hard, uphill battle that we face. Making our case to people like this that a sustainable lifestyle is the only way out of our current predicament....

http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_2008_to_2013_mta_capital_plan_is_there_a_way_out.html

following

http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_2008_13_mta_capital_plan_our_sold_out_future_is_here.html

and

http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_2008_13_mta_capital_plan_the_costs_are_out_of_control.html

The other alternative is to accept that, given our leadership, its debts, and the power of producer interests, the decline of the transit system, the road system, and public services in general is inevitable, and the only sane response is to plan to work around it personally.

This won't help.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/business/21pension.html

http://www.observer.com/2008/g-train-rally-kicks-campaign-improve-m-t-s-forgotten-stepchild

Let me clearer: of course one can support transit funding other ways. But the clear implication on this blog is that if you didn't support congestion pricing, you have betrayed the transit cause. So it's not that congestion pricing's the only way to support transit, but that if you aren't with us on this one, you're agin us.

That's how I read it at least.

Beyond that, I continue to be surprised by the lack of planning for the next step, other than thinking about handing out leaflets at pro-transit rallies.

Beyond that, those who are thinking of blowing through hundreds of thousands on assembly campaigns -- and I'm all for challenging some of these guys, mostly for the amusement factor -- might better spend their cash on putting together a real grassroots effort that organizes around the city -- in Jeffries's district and others.

Because at this point, in spite of what is probably some basic sympathy for the Streetsblog goals throughout the city, we're mostly talking to ourselves.

As a supporter of CP and someone who fears doom for mass transit, may I point out that the same people who voted down CP also ran up those billions of dollars in MTA debt over the past 15 years!

The state legislature. Pataki, Bruno, Silver, and their appointees and beneficiaries. Spitzer ducked the disaster before flaming out.

What are you saying? Support your incumbent state legislator, because they had already wrecked the future before turning down CP, so turning down CP is really not a big deal? I agree that is what happened, but I hardly see that as a reason for support.

Seriously, was there EVER a plan for that? Or should we stop thinking about the MTA as an agency with a $29 billion capital plan that's $17 billion underfunded and just think about it as an agency with a $12 billion funded capital plan?

Do you really think that the ONLY way to support transit is through congestion pricing?! Wow! Some folks have really swallowed the kook-aid.

Get used to it.

The outrage will only grow as gas prices increase, property values in auto-dependent places fall relative to those with transit access, and poor and troubled people start moving to those places because it is cheaper there.

Public policy recommended by weenies is the least of their problems.

http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/05/21/car-haters-streetsblog/#comments

Few comments, few ideas, and little if any constructive thought processes. It's easy to be angry and insult everything around you. It's a lot harder to put together solutions.

And that's the difference between here and there - we're sick of the status quo, but at least we're kicking around solutions, and trying to make some progress. We're tired of the standard political pandering that passes for "achievement" in government - let's see some actual solutions from the people who should consider themselves fortunate that the people felt they deserved the chance to represent us in office!

http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/05/21/car-haters-streetsblog/

These guys are ridiculous. They are against congestion pricing, higher taxes, toll increases ... and they are pro SUV! What a bunch of jerks. Destroying the environment.

Thank you for pointing out that one doesn't have to support the mayor's plan in order to be pro-transit. Many people don't realize that I was always in favor of civil rights, I just didn't support "LBJ's version" of it.