Comments on: Northern Virginia Locked In to Congested Roads http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:51:42 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: jake http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49930 jake Sat, 10 May 2008 15:22:02 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49930 "Is there any ghetto real estate still available in DC?" That's where this is going, I think - it's already happening in Chicago, at least. The inner city is going to be taken over by rich folks and former suburb-dwellers, and the poor will be pushed into the suburbs. These suburbs will see their own round of white flight and disinvestment, but now poor people will be even more isolated since they'll be cut off from transit. This is a big challenge for the livable streets movement - how to desuburbanize without making social inequality worse. "Is there any ghetto real estate still available in DC?"

That's where this is going, I think - it's already happening in Chicago, at least. The inner city is going to be taken over by rich folks and former suburb-dwellers, and the poor will be pushed into the suburbs. These suburbs will see their own round of white flight and disinvestment, but now poor people will be even more isolated since they'll be cut off from transit.

This is a big challenge for the livable streets movement - how to desuburbanize without making social inequality worse.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49928 Cap'n Transit Sat, 10 May 2008 14:14:33 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49928 Maybe they can move back to all the walkable Northern mill towns they came from and rebuild the trolleys their parents tore up. Maybe they can move back to all the walkable Northern mill towns they came from and rebuild the trolleys their parents tore up.

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49927 Niccolo Machiavelli Sat, 10 May 2008 13:50:18 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49927 Is there any ghetto real estate still available in DC? Is there any ghetto real estate still available in DC?

]]> By: Eric http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49919 Eric Fri, 09 May 2008 22:34:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49919 Instead of road widening, they could take that money and replace one or two lanes with rail. Instead of road widening, they could take that money and replace one or two lanes with rail.

]]> By: Henry Berg http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49910 Henry Berg Fri, 09 May 2008 20:31:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49910 I can't say that I have a shred of sympathy for them. I grew up in Northern Va and watched for years as horse country and Civil War battlefields were paved over for more malls/parking lots, etc. Frankly, I find the depth of the problem in the area stupifying. The state continues to elect Republicans to Richmond that won't stand for a bit of taxation -- which was fine when it was a state of tobacco farmers, but makes it impossible to tackle huge infrastructure problems like this one. But even if that ended and they decided to build a transit network, there's no clear pattern for where it should go. People live in suburbs or apartment buildings surrounded by massive parking lots, shop at malls surrounded by massive parking lots, and work in small office parks surrounded by more of same. Even if one were to pick a spot on the map and say "ok, put a train station here," by the time you surround it with it's own obligatory parking lot, there's nothing to walk to. Sure, the people living/working in the closest one or two office parks could walk from the station, but the rest would have to hike accross several parking lots to get to and from the station. And in VA heat? Forget it. I think they would have to start with a master plan of where to place transit projects, then begin rezoning and systemically dismantling the suburban fabric in favor of high-density clusters near the stations. All that while getting the Fed, State, District, several Counties, and any number of municipalities to agree on a plan?? Forget it. Not doable. Not ever. I hope they can telecommute, they're going to need it... I can't say that I have a shred of sympathy for them. I grew up in Northern Va and watched for years as horse country and Civil War battlefields were paved over for more malls/parking lots, etc. Frankly, I find the depth of the problem in the area stupifying. The state continues to elect Republicans to Richmond that won't stand for a bit of taxation -- which was fine when it was a state of tobacco farmers, but makes it impossible to tackle huge infrastructure problems like this one. But even if that ended and they decided to build a transit network, there's no clear pattern for where it should go. People live in suburbs or apartment buildings surrounded by massive parking lots, shop at malls surrounded by massive parking lots, and work in small office parks surrounded by more of same. Even if one were to pick a spot on the map and say "ok, put a train station here," by the time you surround it with it's own obligatory parking lot, there's nothing to walk to. Sure, the people living/working in the closest one or two office parks could walk from the station, but the rest would have to hike accross several parking lots to get to and from the station. And in VA heat? Forget it. I think they would have to start with a master plan of where to place transit projects, then begin rezoning and systemically dismantling the suburban fabric in favor of high-density clusters near the stations. All that while getting the Fed, State, District, several Counties, and any number of municipalities to agree on a plan?? Forget it. Not doable. Not ever.

I hope they can telecommute, they're going to need it...

]]> By: Doc Barnett http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49904 Doc Barnett Fri, 09 May 2008 19:54:17 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49904 You can't read about peak oil without adopting some of its cataclysmic rhetoric, which is very fun to employ. And you can't read any sober analysis of our energy situation that isn't at least partly in the "peak oil" universe. But so what? I don't think it's any crazier to talk about oil disaster scenarios than it is to treat a dwindling resource as if it were infinite. And yes you can even sanely look forward to a massive failure of suburban expansion, thereby containing a mode of development that (even ignoring tailpipe emissions) is an ecological nightmare. We don't need ANY new suburbs, we need to reinvest and reorganize the older ones (and abandon a few of the stupidest, newest expansions). Join us on the peak oil crazy train! You won't look back. Anyway, even regular people (<i>and</i> politicians) are invoking Mad Max if you take common statements to their logical conclusion: <blockquote>In West Virginia, Gov. Joe Manchin says "you drive to survive" and the gas price spike has hit particularly hard. "It's hard to drive from here to Huntington when gas is $4 a gallon and you're getting paid minimum wage," says Wayne Mayor Junior Ramey.</blockquote> http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-08-westvirginia_N.htm A. These people "drive to survive" (cute). B. They can't afford current prices. C. It is overwhelmingly likely that prices will continue to rise in the long term. Ergo? DEATH. We are all peak oil crazies. You can't read about peak oil without adopting some of its cataclysmic rhetoric, which is very fun to employ. And you can't read any sober analysis of our energy situation that isn't at least partly in the "peak oil" universe. But so what? I don't think it's any crazier to talk about oil disaster scenarios than it is to treat a dwindling resource as if it were infinite. And yes you can even sanely look forward to a massive failure of suburban expansion, thereby containing a mode of development that (even ignoring tailpipe emissions) is an ecological nightmare. We don't need ANY new suburbs, we need to reinvest and reorganize the older ones (and abandon a few of the stupidest, newest expansions). Join us on the peak oil crazy train! You won't look back.

Anyway, even regular people (and politicians) are invoking Mad Max if you take common statements to their logical conclusion:

In West Virginia, Gov. Joe Manchin says "you drive to survive" and the gas price spike has hit particularly hard. "It's hard to drive from here to Huntington when gas is $4 a gallon and you're getting paid minimum wage," says Wayne Mayor Junior Ramey.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-08-westvirginia_N.htm

A. These people "drive to survive" (cute). B. They can't afford current prices. C. It is overwhelmingly likely that prices will continue to rise in the long term. Ergo? DEATH. We are all peak oil crazies.

]]> By: bystander http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49899 bystander Fri, 09 May 2008 19:07:54 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49899 Gas tax holiday anyone? Gas tax holiday anyone?

]]> By: Shemp http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49897 Shemp Fri, 09 May 2008 18:44:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49897 C'mon Mark, play out your darkest hopes - Mad Max fuel piracy in Fairfax County! Suburbs gone wild! C'mon Mark, play out your darkest hopes - Mad Max fuel piracy in Fairfax County! Suburbs gone wild!

]]> By: Asa http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49896 Asa Fri, 09 May 2008 18:41:46 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49896 The missing perspective here, that Toth could likely have identified, is that state government needs to create a framework that can lead municipal governments to do the right thing, or less of the wrong thing. Step 1 is for the state DOT to publicly disown the congestion and point the finger back at the towns that are doing such insane things. Step 2, which seems to be coming first in VA, is to stop facilitating the sprawl by chasing the congestion around with new roadway lanes. The missing perspective here, that Toth could likely have identified, is that state government needs to create a framework that can lead municipal governments to do the right thing, or less of the wrong thing. Step 1 is for the state DOT to publicly disown the congestion and point the finger back at the towns that are doing such insane things. Step 2, which seems to be coming first in VA, is to stop facilitating the sprawl by chasing the congestion around with new roadway lanes.

]]> By: Mark Walker http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49893 Mark Walker Fri, 09 May 2008 17:52:13 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49893 The first spot shortages of gasoline (triggered by hurricane or terrorist event) will send a shudder through this obsolete landscape and the people who live in it. Their first response will be to demand that the government provide them with gas rationing coupons -- and subsidies, because the price of gas is not going down, tied as it is to the depletion of the world's crude oil resources. When they finally take a hard look at their car dependency, which may take several more years of misery, they may finally start demanding bus rapid transit, light rail, and other solutions. Whether they can afford to build them is a separate question. In the long term, over the next several decades, parts of this car-oriented landscape will be either retrofitted for transit or abandoned, creating winners and losers. Beware of the losers. The first spot shortages of gasoline (triggered by hurricane or terrorist event) will send a shudder through this obsolete landscape and the people who live in it. Their first response will be to demand that the government provide them with gas rationing coupons -- and subsidies, because the price of gas is not going down, tied as it is to the depletion of the world's crude oil resources. When they finally take a hard look at their car dependency, which may take several more years of misery, they may finally start demanding bus rapid transit, light rail, and other solutions. Whether they can afford to build them is a separate question. In the long term, over the next several decades, parts of this car-oriented landscape will be either retrofitted for transit or abandoned, creating winners and losers. Beware of the losers.

]]> By: Clarence http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-49891 Clarence Fri, 09 May 2008 17:35:48 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/05/09/northern-virginia-locked-in-to-congested-roads/#comment-49891 Here's another video contest no one is entering. This one is for Northern Virginia: http://www.thenovaauthority.org/congestionRelief.html Here's another video contest no one is entering. This one is for Northern Virginia:

http://www.thenovaauthority.org/congestionRelief.html

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