This could not be a more pathetic attempt at organizing what used to be a gorgeous and quintessential West Village setting.

Let someone who knows what they're doing remove this eyesore and design a materpiece this space derserves. This is an incredible opportunity to creat art and something should be done...speak up fellow neighbors!

There was a huge closure of 8th Ave between 14th and 23rd for a street fair last weekend. That's why traffic was super dense on 14th. It has nothing to do with a little pedestrian plaza over on 9th.

When you invoke Robert Moses I think what you're saying is you want even more space somehow given over to cars. Sorry, pal -- a lot of people are working in exactly the OPPOSITE direction.

That's not a criticism, it's an observation. By bringing Europe into the picture (and no, I'm not talking about the major intersections of Paris, but I can take you to quite a few places in London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Rotterdam and a score of small towns) I was meaning to illuminate the idea that the original culture of non-motorized transportation is given priority in civic planning and the automobile is still considered relatively new in that context.

Yes, autos are heavily taxed in Europe. And the quality urban living and the possibility of sustainable living is so much greater in Europe due to higher taxation - they also earn more and work _less_ than we do. What I suggested as a point of reference above was an observation about urban psychology, not a solution to the expense. Things cost money, plain and simple. But don't get uptight about it - the question is how is cash best spent and to what overall benefit. And where do you want your tax $s to go? I mean, the higher taxes result in a direct benefit to one's daily life in Europe, one that is perceivable. Trust me, the taxes are worth it.

Still, I see the concept as the issue here, not the money.

Maybe having Washington St. become only one-lane southbound also makes sense now that Washington has had one traffic lane removed to create the buffered bike lane. Or do you not like that traffic calming measure, either?

Also I drove across 14th today (the closest carwash to me is at 15ht/10th) and noticed they put two-way traffic on Washington. What the F***? All this talk of traffic-calming measures and they redirect traffic to allow for easier flow? Who's the moron who implemented that?

It's the "morons" who live in the residential blocks just to the south who had to deal with the massive volumes of circling traffic. Maybe you want to talk to the "morons" on 5th Ave. in Brooklyn about two-way streets being better for traffic calming - you know, the ones that stopped the one-way plan to push large volumes of traffic to Atlantic Yards.

Since you (plural, not just Dave) know so much, why not come to the planning meetings and tell your side, that it's not important to keep the circling out of the residential blocks by putting in a 2-way traffic flow... or that your designs for granite blocks is a lot better than DOT's....

And if you can't imagine how the traffic pattern is going over, why not go have a look. It was decidedly tame when I was there Thursday night, and without triple-parking, there was very little honking.

I can't imagine how the new traffic pattern in the MP has gone over: I bet it is mass confusion as people looking for free parking are circling and cabdrivers are confused and constantly on the horn.

Also I drove across 14th today (the closest carwash to me is at 15ht/10th) and noticed they put two-way traffic on Washington. What the F***? All this talk of traffic-calming measures and they redirect traffic to allow for easier flow? Who's the moron who implemented that?

As I have said many times there needs to be a new Robert Moses to look at traffic/congestion in the city as a whole. Too many conflicting messages sent (contra-flow measures, two-way traffic on Washington to start) to accomplish anything.

There will never be a design that everyone thinks is perfect. Never.

This was the result of an intensive process that clearly the complainers didn't participate in. There are a lot of competing interests involved in any project of this magnitude - and none of them, not even you, Mr. Complain-it's-not-perfect-for-you, got everything they asked for.

What do I think? Suddenly cabs are driving verrrry slowly rather than trying to mow people down while leaning on their horns. People are lingering in the public areas, sitting on the stones, appreciating what was a car-strewn area. The streets have been reconfigured to actually discourage through-traffic and to keep the traffic from overflowing into neighboring residential areas. Parking zones have been redesignated to reflect the current uses and to keep double-parkers from bringing traffic to a honking halt.

And all of that was done while keeping in the historical context of this landmarked district.

And with the cooperation of city agencies, the public space in this immediate vicinity has been completely transformed in the span of months. It's not exactly what came out of the GGUIP process, but it embraces many of the principles. Maybe we'll see more parts being incorporated as times goes on - and American drivers prove that they are responsible enough to handle it.

In the meantime, I think it's a dramatically improved space and an impressive returning of public space to the non-driving majority that uses this neighborhood. Complain about that.

Cobblestones are the sleeping giant of traffic calming -- they still exist under many of New York's streets, including the one I live on, and I'd love to see them make a comeback.

I'd rather see small amounts of cobbles covered with asphalt for bikes than large amounts covered with asphalt for cars.

In Europe, plazas like this would simply remain open while the authorities-that-be would offer and encourage markets and vendors to use the open space. Restaurants would extend outdoor seating far beyond the curb and into the cobblestone street. Autos mindfully respect pedestrians with the understanding that this a pedestrian space that they are privileged to share and keep speeds to a minimum.

This community understanding of space is based on use, not on some arbitrary object that is meant to be a 'sign' of approved activity in designated areas. In other words, the actual events that take place on the plaza define traffic and the way the space is used, not a few concrete sculptures that, mark my words, will end up being a pain in someone's patootie in the not-to-distant future - besides being unsightly.

Lastly, whether or not cobblestones are fun to ride on or not, as bike traffic is a sustainable means of transportation, and should be encouraged in *all* major cities worldwide, bikes should be given better consideration. It's not likely that a hobby cyclist will be jaunting through this plaza given the cobblestones and auto traffic situation; it is, however, very likely that bike commuters (ie - cyclists traversing from point a to point b) will frequently cross the plaza, and that is what needs to be given consideration. Again, in many of the major cities in Europe bike traffic is given extra attention in order to provide safety to cyclists without impeding the inevitable auto traffic.

New York is the US' most European city - why not look to Europe for ideas instead of doing the usual US thing - throw some concrete at it and spend a lot of money? Bleh. Bleh!

The result is a bad joke at best.

Extremely Ugly, but somewhat functional.

This should cause some accidents.

On the other hand, the outside seating area at 14th & 9th is amazing. Great job on that!

re: Bikes. Traffic calming creates a good biking environment --- calmed streets are safer and more congenial than bike lanes blocked by cabs and trucks or pedestrians wandering around paths.

BIDs don't do major capital improvements, governments do. BIDs collect fees from businesses for cleaning, security, signage and operational stuff.

Space for people is better than space for cars. I can't wait to bring out a picnic blanket and just sprawl anywhere I want on those cobblestones. Even if I have to walk by bike there.