Comments on: Electeds Still Need to Hear From Pricing Supporters http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:01:47 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: JF http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-49657 JF Mon, 05 May 2008 22:58:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-49657 Here's a letter my wife got from our assemblymember, Marge Markey, in response to an email asking her to support congestion pricing. http://www.flickr.com/photos/26313179@N02/2468575663/sizes/l/ Remember that this is in a district with strong support for congestion pricing, even if it is in Queens. Here's a letter my wife got from our assemblymember, Marge Markey, in response to an email asking her to support congestion pricing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26313179@N02/2468575663/sizes/l/

Remember that this is in a district with strong support for congestion pricing, even if it is in Queens.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48736 Glenn Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:28:43 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48736 The stadium/Olympics was a plan that really came from the Mayor's office and Dan Doctoroff - aside them them, no one was pushing for it beforehand. Congestion pricing was different - a large and diverse coalition of environmental, labor, transportation, public health, community advocates pushed the Mayor into this. If he took it on as a resume builder or for his legacy, it wasn't in isolation that he came to support it. And the plan that was eventually shot down in secret party conference was significantly altered from the original plan. The Legislature could have put forth their own plan, or the governor, but in the end they just decided to not to do their jobs at all and lacked the confidence to have a real debate in the open and vote on it. They even cut mass transit aid to the city after everything! The stadium/Olympics was a plan that really came from the Mayor's office and Dan Doctoroff - aside them them, no one was pushing for it beforehand. Congestion pricing was different - a large and diverse coalition of environmental, labor, transportation, public health, community advocates pushed the Mayor into this. If he took it on as a resume builder or for his legacy, it wasn't in isolation that he came to support it. And the plan that was eventually shot down in secret party conference was significantly altered from the original plan. The Legislature could have put forth their own plan, or the governor, but in the end they just decided to not to do their jobs at all and lacked the confidence to have a real debate in the open and vote on it. They even cut mass transit aid to the city after everything!

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48714 Larry Littlefield Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:00:52 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48714 Weiner could be killed with this issue in other ways. For example, Quinn/Thompson could conceded that those in Belle Harbor aren't going to vote for them, and go after the rules that make it illegal for those elsewhere in the city to drive and park in their neighborhood to go to the beach. That's Weiner's district. Weiner could be killed with this issue in other ways. For example, Quinn/Thompson could conceded that those in Belle Harbor aren't going to vote for them, and go after the rules that make it illegal for those elsewhere in the city to drive and park in their neighborhood to go to the beach. That's Weiner's district.

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48713 Larry Littlefield Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:56:58 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48713 (Weiner's opponents, such as they are, are busy explaining why they didn't know anything about the three card monty shell game they were playing with City Council money.) Well, I guess they'll just have to oppo Weiner's earmarks. The real scandal is not the scandalous use of these small pots of money. It is the fact that these small pots of money are all your local councilmember, state legislator or congressperson cares about, designating all real decisions to the handful of men in the room. As I wrote here: http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_importance_of_member_items.html (Weiner's opponents, such as they are, are busy explaining why they didn't know anything about the three card monty shell game they were playing with City Council money.)

Well, I guess they'll just have to oppo Weiner's earmarks. The real scandal is not the scandalous use of these small pots of money. It is the fact that these small pots of money are all your local councilmember, state legislator or congressperson cares about, designating all real decisions to the handful of men in the room.

As I wrote here:

http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_importance_of_member_items.html

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48709 Niccolo Machiavelli Sun, 20 Apr 2008 02:59:29 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48709 I dunno Larry, I think Weiner's opponents, such as they are, are busy explaining why they didn't know anything about the three card monty shell game they were playing with City Council money. Both Quinn and Thompson have the same problem. I dunno Larry, I think Weiner's opponents, such as they are, are busy explaining why they didn't know anything about the three card monty shell game they were playing with City Council money. Both Quinn and Thompson have the same problem.

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48694 Larry Littlefield Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:16:10 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48694 (Legacy? His legacy is Mayor Weiner.) Weiner would have won if CP won. He could have run against it, and swore $billions would have arrived from Washington if it had not passed. Now he has to deliver those $billions. Or else his opponents should kill him for not doing so. I'd say he has to (personally, not just call on others to do it and blame them if it doesn't happen) deliver $13.5 billion in federal money for the MTA Capital Plan, over and above any earmarks and without sacrificing something else. (Legacy? His legacy is Mayor Weiner.)

Weiner would have won if CP won. He could have run against it, and swore $billions would have arrived from Washington if it had not passed.

Now he has to deliver those $billions. Or else his opponents should kill him for not doing so.

I'd say he has to (personally, not just call on others to do it and blame them if it doesn't happen) deliver $13.5 billion in federal money for the MTA Capital Plan, over and above any earmarks and without sacrificing something else.

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48689 Niccolo Machiavelli Sat, 19 Apr 2008 01:23:36 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48689 I was going to leave this alone because it was pretty well directed. That said I decides to dissect it in the vain hope of firing up more debate than it seems to be causing. "I hope future historians will not remember this as a Bloomberg second-term failure along the lines of the West Side stadium fight with Speaker Silver and Assembly Democrats."---Why not, it was. And many of the people who were applauding Silver for killing the stadium, and begged him to kill Atlantic Yards, are now cursing him for killing CP. Bloomberg, on the other hand, bribed this thing through the City Council, never used it in his election campaigns, and did what he could to make sure that it was never tested at the polls by actual voters. "case of Albany legislative dysfunction"--Albany functioned, they killed it, apparently under the overwhelming pressure of the city assembly delegation. "whole load of people continuing to complain about fare increases, service cuts"---you mean of course the chorus that complains about every fare increase, regardless, those who never met a fare increase they liked. Ten years ago the fare roughly approximated the price of a slice of pizza. Today the average fare is $1.80. I just tonight bought two slices of non-gourmet pizza for $6, thats $3 a slice almost twice the average fare. Thats not to say I don't like low fares, no fares is cool with me. But it means that the fare can go up $1.20 before it returns to the historic price. And what does this really mean anyway, that transportation political economy only moves under crisis? So what would you have the MTA do now, increase fares to $4 a trip, no incentives, to hold the politicians responsible. That wouldn't bother me much either. "once the MTA has to revise its capital plan." ---ooooo, thats scary, that will drive the foxes out of the chicken coop in Albany. "he can still create a lasting legacy as a bold leader on sustainability issues"---Well since he never put this before the voters in either of his landslide electoral victories, and he showed no cohesive political strategy at any point capable of putting this through, this is what many people thought was his agenda all along. Many people thought this was all just an exercise in resume building by Bloomberg. I was more cynical, I thought PlaNYC as a whole was an exercise in resume building and a trojan horse deindustrialization strategy. "Environmentalists" --- They are all "environmentalists" just ask them, a term that has devolved into an amorphous mass of everypeople. The Kennedys can't stomach wind mills on their horizon. Self described "progressives" want to eliminate the gas tax, miniscule as it is. I'm sure McCain thinks he is an environmentalist. This was a true democratic exercise in anti-urbanism, led by the elected representatives of the greatest city in America. That a few polls seemed to show something like a majority in favor of it at some point doesn't mean that it was the will of the people, look at that polling now. The only polls that count are in November (and an occasional special election, there is one next month in Queens by the way), the rest of it is bullshit. When it counted Bloomberg's campaign was as far as he could be from this issue. Legacy? His legacy is Mayor Weiner. I was going to leave this alone because it was pretty well directed. That said I decides to dissect it in the vain hope of firing up more debate than it seems to be causing.

"I hope future historians will not remember this as a Bloomberg second-term failure along the lines of the West Side stadium fight with Speaker Silver and Assembly Democrats."---Why not, it was. And many of the people who were applauding Silver for killing the stadium, and begged him to kill Atlantic Yards, are now cursing him for killing CP. Bloomberg, on the other hand, bribed this thing through the City Council, never used it in his election campaigns, and did what he could to make sure that it was never tested at the polls by actual voters.

"case of Albany legislative dysfunction"--Albany functioned, they killed it, apparently under the overwhelming pressure of the city assembly delegation.

"whole load of people continuing to complain about fare increases, service cuts"---you mean of course the chorus that complains about every fare increase, regardless, those who never met a fare increase they liked. Ten years ago the fare roughly approximated the price of a slice of pizza. Today the average fare is $1.80. I just tonight bought two slices of non-gourmet pizza for $6, thats $3 a slice almost twice the average fare. Thats not to say I don't like low fares, no fares is cool with me. But it means that the fare can go up $1.20 before it returns to the historic price.

And what does this really mean anyway, that transportation political economy only moves under crisis? So what would you have the MTA do now, increase fares to $4 a trip, no incentives, to hold the politicians responsible. That wouldn't bother me much either.

"once the MTA has to revise its capital plan." ---ooooo, thats scary, that will drive the foxes out of the chicken coop in Albany.

"he can still create a lasting legacy as a bold leader on sustainability issues"---Well since he never put this before the voters in either of his landslide electoral victories, and he showed no cohesive political strategy at any point capable of putting this through, this is what many people thought was his agenda all along. Many people thought this was all just an exercise in resume building by Bloomberg. I was more cynical, I thought PlaNYC as a whole was an exercise in resume building and a trojan horse deindustrialization strategy.

"Environmentalists" --- They are all "environmentalists" just ask them, a term that has devolved into an amorphous mass of everypeople. The Kennedys can't stomach wind mills on their horizon. Self described "progressives" want to eliminate the gas tax, miniscule as it is. I'm sure McCain thinks he is an environmentalist.

This was a true democratic exercise in anti-urbanism, led by the elected representatives of the greatest city in America. That a few polls seemed to show something like a majority in favor of it at some point doesn't mean that it was the will of the people, look at that polling now. The only polls that count are in November (and an occasional special election, there is one next month in Queens by the way), the rest of it is bullshit. When it counted Bloomberg's campaign was as far as he could be from this issue.

Legacy? His legacy is Mayor Weiner.

]]> By: Charles Siegel http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/comment-page-1/#comment-48671 Charles Siegel Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:21:04 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/18/electeds-still-need-to-hear-from-pricing-supporters/#comment-48671 The future of congestion pricing: I hear that Toyota will introduce a plug-in hybrid in 2009, and I expect drivers will switch to plug-in hybrids very quickly to avoid high gas prices (since powering your car by electricity will cost half as much as gas). As a result, gas tax revenues will fall dramatically, and politicians will be looking for a new source of funding for maintaining roads. Toll-everwhere congestion pricing (on all freeways, not just in central business districts) is an obvious source of this funding, since it has the benefit of reducing congestion as well as generating funds. Given the momentum that already exists for congestion pricing (despite its narrow loss in New York), I think it is very possible that toll-everywhere congestion pricing will be in place in much of the United States by 2020. Eat your heart out, Lew Fidler. The future of congestion pricing:
I hear that Toyota will introduce a plug-in hybrid in 2009, and I expect drivers will switch to plug-in hybrids very quickly to avoid high gas prices (since powering your car by electricity will cost half as much as gas). As a result, gas tax revenues will fall dramatically, and politicians will be looking for a new source of funding for maintaining roads.

Toll-everwhere congestion pricing (on all freeways, not just in central business districts) is an obvious source of this funding, since it has the benefit of reducing congestion as well as generating funds. Given the momentum that already exists for congestion pricing (despite its narrow loss in New York), I think it is very possible that toll-everywhere congestion pricing will be in place in much of the United States by 2020.

Eat your heart out, Lew Fidler.

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