That's right. They are subject to federal taxes, but not state and local. The same is true for all retirement income, even private sector, after age 65.

If you want to know what is going on with taxes, I suggest that your read this post and download the spreadsheet.

http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/taxes_generational_equity_redux.html

In fact, any Streetsblogger should.

Don't be amazed. When the consequences come due, don't be amazed when he is out front blaming someone else, too.

Something for nothing is the game for winners. When the system collapses as a result, if you've got your kid in a special deal school, a placard, and guaranteed health care, what do you care?

The neighborhoods just outside of the proposed area would be having the congestion switched to their neighborhoods.

No, PV, that's not correct at all. The neighborhoods immediately outside the pricing would be some of the biggest beneficiaries. You can look up the numbers or just use your brain and think about it. If it's not free to drive over the East River Bridges anymore, isn't that going to mean less AM rush hour traffic smashing its way down Flatbush and Atlantic Avenues, Adams and Clinton Streets -- all streets, btw, in Bill's district? Isn't it somewhat intuitive that if it costs to travel over the bridges a certain number of driverfs are going to stop going out of their way to avoid the Battery Tunnel or, my god, maybe even get their ass on a subway train? I don't think you need to be a transpo planner or economist to see that.

Look, I actually like Bill de Blasio on a personal level. He's a good guy. But as a politician, he's been selling out his district for his own ambitions for quite some time now. He sold us out on Atlantic Yards when he was running for the Council Speaker's job. And he sold us out on congestion pricing b/c he's running for Boro President. He's been willing to step forward on the small, relatively meaningless and easy "green" stuff -- bike lanes, styrofoam, recycling. But on the big stuff, when it counts? It's not his constituents he's representing.

I'm sure Bill would say, Well, I'm thinking what's best for the city as a whole, not just repping the narrow interests of my district. But districts in south Brooklyn and Westchester had their selfish interests very well represented in the pricing debate by their elected reps. Bill and Joan Millman's districts didn't. Our neighborhoods continue to be crushed by traffic on daily basis. It's the worst part of living in District 39 and the neighborhoods around Downtown Brooklyn. It's the thing that makes life most miserable here.

Bill stopped repping me a long time ago and I, for one, am done voting for Bill.

Since there's no anti-styrofoam lobby, he's fighting night and day to ban styrofoam in NYC! VMT of our NYC Sanitation halfs overnight!

That makes me so proud. And that's why I'm going to vote him right back to Washington DC, where he can get an internship with either of our 2 New York Senators who didn't come out in favor of Pricing either. (I hear they've got really smart meters and great mass transit bike/ped access at the ballpark there in DC.)

P.S. Mr. Bill, if you are running for Borough President in NYC, why the heck do you keep sending me emails to do volunteer work for HRC? You KNOW I'm a McCain guy cuz Arizona is ALL about the open road!

Oh, and here's the platform, AGAIN, in case you missed it.
Issue #4 (aka not the top priority)
http://www.billdeblasio.com/issue4.html
A GREENER, GREATER BROOKLYN

On the City Council Bill has been a leader on environmental issues. As Brooklyn Borough President, Bill will work to maximize recycling opportunities in schools, offices, and homes.

Recycling Electronic Waste: Bill has sponsored multiple electronic waste (e-waste) recycling events throughout Brooklyn, giving members of the community an opportunity to dispose of toxic electronic equipment in an environmentally sound way. Bill has introduced legislation in the City Council, Intro 104, that would require manufacturers of electronic equipment, such as TV's and computers, to set up a free system to collect and recycle these goods. This would help ensure that toxic materials like lead and mercury – commonly found in computer monitors andTV's– don'tend up in our air and water.

Say No to Styrofoam: Bill has introduced legislation, Intro 609, that would ban the use of Styrofoam in New York City. Styrofoam is the widely used term for Polystyrene foam, a substance which doesn't biodegrade and essentially has no expiration date. Bill's legislation would prohibit city agencies and city restaurants from using Styrofoam. As Borough President Bill will continue to encourage the use of green products and cut down on unnecessary waste.

It sounds like we are in agreement. By having pension costs soar to 27% or payroll or more, the bomb has already gone off. Having $25k cops mean the bomb has already gone off. Paying new new DC37 members 15% less means the bomb has already gone off. Having property taxes 11% higher without new services, just new debt service and retirement spending, means the bomb has already gone off -- with more to come.

Paying people more (later not to work rather than paying them decently to work means bad public services. That's why I'm so outraged by the screw the newbie flee to Florida deals, with the recent teacher deal perhaps the worst of all.

(Wonder why that deal's (more pay now rather than later) is not on the table?)

Because they unions represent those cashing in and moving out, not younger or (God Forbid) future members, that's why. It's been on "screw the newbie and flee to Florida deal" after another, in every administration. I'll write yet another historical post on this on Room 8 over the weekend.

Getting back on topic, the point is that those who have only followed this one issue seem to believe that the actions of the State Assembly on congestion pricing are somehow undemocratic.

The reality is that even with the failure to vote at the end, this has been the most open, fair and democratic consideration of a public issue by our state government in a generation (any such would have been before my time). EVERYTHING ELSE THEY HAVE DONE HAS BEEN WORSE. No fact finding with facts public, no public debate, no debate in the legislature. And the votes, when they happen, are 212 to 0.

As soon as I find a way to make it 501c3 I'll let you know (a tough fight I know given political contributions law). But when I figure it out this boob from Brooklyn will be highlighted as one to go. Whose interests does he think he is representing?

The one point about Federal funding needs to be developed more. That is a big factor in the let "someone else pay" politics. Highway Trust Fund $ is one of the few tax resources that flows to NY relative to the rural areas. There are plenty of politicians in both parties who favor their states regaining 100% of what they contribute to fuel tax revenues. Presently it is limited at 90% which allows for the transit flexing that big cities do. Bush is one of them.

The debate was focused on pricing the urban core, now the debate has shifted. The forces of the automobile economy have won the day. Expect that calls from both sides of the aisle for 100% of guarantee will increase accordingly as these forces have been empowered. But the sentiment is not limited to Bush or the Republicans.

What I said about state tax on pension contributions is not disinformation. People who contribute pay taxes on their contributions. People who don't contribute pay taxes on their full salaries. That's not special treatment. As far as not paying taxes when collecting what the employer contributed to the fund, you come on. In the grand scheme of things, most public sector employment is poorly paid compared to similar work in the private sector, and the tax treatment you're bemoaning does little to close that gap. I'd be glad to take a higher salary today in exchange for paying more state taxes in the future. Wonder why that deal's not on the table? Because the current approach gives the employees and unions the illusion of getting a better deal than they really have (Hey! no state taxes on that shitty little pension! Whoop-de-doo!) and saves current dollars for the employer. The City is more than happy to trade potential future tax losses after I'm 62 for paying me on the cheap today.

With uniform services (who get to retire much younger than the rest of us), I agree that there's a real cost, though. In any of these discussions, though, it's very important to make that distinction -- Cops and Fireman ($25K starting salary not withstanding) get a much better deal than most other civil servants.

You mean to tell me that the 50% of payroll that NYC is contributing to police and fire pensions is counted as taxable income by the policemen and firemen? Come one.

If you are talking about their own contributions, under the 2000 pension deal there aren't any for those hired before 1995. So that's more disinformation.

Ah, but for the first 10 years under the 1995 DC 37 deal, general city employees pay 5.85%, and under the more recent UFT deal FUTURE teachers will pay 4.5%. That will be taxed, you say? How does that contradict my sense that this is a "screw the newbie flee to Florida" state.

Public empolyees in NY pay state income taxes based on their gross income; pension contributions aren't treated as pre-tax the way they are for Federal income taxes. When a NY public employee retires, his pension income is federally taxable (but not State taxable) because he hasn't paid tax on the income yet to the Feds, but has to the State. Also, if the employee moves out of state (as a great many do), the pension is fully taxable in the other state. It's nowhere near the boondoggle you seem to be making it out to be.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "at any age", but the vast majority of white-collar City and State workers can't collect their pensions until they're 62. Gee whiz, 3 more years of "favorable" tax treatment (on income that I've already paid taxes on) than the private sector. That'll make up for 30 years of crappy public-sector salary.

Not good enough. They (and Silver) have to PROPOSE, accept blame from those made worse off, AND get it passed over that opposition. When they do it, hurray for them -- as long as I don't have to pay.

But as it is, it's nice to know that Anthony Weiner has guaranteed that if CP is passed the $8.6 billion in federal funding the MTA was counting on will in fact be $13 billion or more, because without CP we need to have it or else.

Hey Weiner, are the additional funds going to be in this budget or in the one that starts October 2009? Don't tell me in October 2009 that it is coming later. And don't blame Bloomberg and Quinn if the money doesn't come. That's your promised share of the MTA Capital Plan. Go get it -- without giving up anything else.

BTW, do we really need the A train to run past Howard Beach?

And don't think that Weiner, Brodsky and the rest are going to oppose everything. Even if they wanted to (which I doubt) they understand that to be obstructionist would be poison. Bloomberg got the snowball rolling downhill.