Comments on: Cartoon Tuesday: Pricing Post-Mortem Edition http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/ Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Aaron Naparstek http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-48045 Aaron Naparstek Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:48:56 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-48045 Clearly, you guys didn't read my December 2006 congestion pricing opus... http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/04/congestion-charging-in-new-york-city-the-political-bloodbath/ <blockquote>"Gridlock" Sam worked with Ketcham during the Lindsay administration and later became a Deputy Commissioner for the Department of Transportation under Mayor Ed Koch. "In 1980 after the transit strike, Ed Koch actually introduced a traffic regulation, a new law, to charge people in driver-only cars. If you wanted to drive into Manhattan and you were alone in your car you had to use one of the toll facilities," Schwartz said. The legislation passed City Council and was within days of being implemented when the parking garage industry and the Automobile Club of New York sued to stop it. "We lost the law suit on the argument that the city didn't have the authority to toll the bridges. Tolling the bridges requires state legislation." Though many of today's congestion pricing advocates believe Automobile Club of New York v. Koch is flawed and could be overturned in court (PDF file), the City's own lawyers and many in Albany believe that any congestion pricing system that involves tolling the city's bridges must go through the state legislature before its enacted -- an added complication to say the least. </blockquote> Clearly, you guys didn’t read my December 2006 congestion pricing opus…

http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/12/04/congestion-charging-in-new-york-city-the-political-bloodbath/

“Gridlock” Sam worked with Ketcham during the Lindsay administration and later became a Deputy Commissioner for the Department of Transportation under Mayor Ed Koch. “In 1980 after the transit strike, Ed Koch actually introduced a traffic regulation, a new law, to charge people in driver-only cars. If you wanted to drive into Manhattan and you were alone in your car you had to use one of the toll facilities,” Schwartz said.

The legislation passed City Council and was within days of being implemented when the parking garage industry and the Automobile Club of New York sued to stop it. “We lost the law suit on the argument that the city didn’t have the authority to toll the bridges. Tolling the bridges requires state legislation.” Though many of today’s congestion pricing advocates believe Automobile Club of New York v. Koch is flawed and could be overturned in court (PDF file), the City’s own lawyers and many in Albany believe that any congestion pricing system that involves tolling the city’s bridges must go through the state legislature before its enacted — an added complication to say the least.

]]> By: Dave http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-48015 Dave Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:23:41 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-48015 To be equitable we need to toll the Harlem River bridges too; capture Brodsky and the richy-riches from Westchester. How much are we spending to rebuild the Willis Ave and Madison Ave bridges? I think this requires Albany's input; and we know how much thy love us, don't we? To be equitable we need to toll the Harlem River bridges too; capture Brodsky and the richy-riches from Westchester. How much are we spending to rebuild the Willis Ave and Madison Ave bridges?

I think this requires Albany’s input; and we know how much thy love us, don’t we?

]]> By: Mark http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-48012 Mark Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:10:08 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-48012 To be more specific, re Jason's suggestion to toll the ER bridges with EZPass, would that require action by the state legislature or city council? Inquiring minds would like to know. To be more specific, re Jason’s suggestion to toll the ER bridges with EZPass, would that require action by the state legislature or city council? Inquiring minds would like to know.

]]> By: jason http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47999 jason Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:27:05 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47999 If that cartoon is the height of our bitterness and anger over this mistake, we're pretty moderate folks. It makes some uncomfortable because it makes the connection they just don't want to make in their heads. Also: Why can't we just start tolling the east river bridges now? With EZPass and cameras (no booths). Throw in market-based street parking in lower Manhattan, too! If that cartoon is the height of our bitterness and anger over this mistake, we’re pretty moderate folks. It makes some uncomfortable because it makes the connection they just don’t want to make in their heads.

Also:

Why can’t we just start tolling the east river bridges now? With EZPass and cameras (no booths). Throw in market-based street parking in lower Manhattan, too!

]]> By: Shemp http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47990 Shemp Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:51:57 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47990 The specific improvement is dead and buried, so we're trying to wave the big interconnections in peoples' faces. The specific improvement is dead and buried, so we’re trying to wave the big interconnections in peoples’ faces.

]]> By: mike http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47981 mike Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:53:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47981 Shemp, I'm not being whimpy. Although I completely agree with the cartoon, and think every citizen should have it drilled into their heads, I don't feel that it's very effective advocacy to waive it people's faces when trying to make a point about a specific improvement you're trying to advance. Shemp, I’m not being whimpy. Although I completely agree with the cartoon, and think every citizen should have it drilled into their heads, I don’t feel that it’s very effective advocacy to waive it people’s faces when trying to make a point about a specific improvement you’re trying to advance.

]]> By: Shemp http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47977 Shemp Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:22:44 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47977 Maybe wimps like Jan and Mike would prefer these: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/powers_of_persuasion/use_it_up/images_html/ride_with_hitler.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_You_Ride_Alone_You_Ride_with_bin_Laden Maybe wimps like Jan and Mike would prefer these:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/powers_of_persuasion/use_it_up/images_html/ride_with_hitler.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_You_Ride_Alone_You_Ride_with_bin_Laden

]]> By: mike http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47975 mike Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:06:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47975 I agree that this cartoon is not likely to win folks over to CP or other specific livable streets improvements, but I think it's a useful meme to spread. Do not our actions have effects at the global level? Beyond improving our own lives, and that of our communities, that's why we're doing this, right? Still, it's not something you want to whip out at a community board meeting. I agree that this cartoon is not likely to win folks over to CP or other specific livable streets improvements, but I think it’s a useful meme to spread. Do not our actions have effects at the global level? Beyond improving our own lives, and that of our communities, that’s why we’re doing this, right?

Still, it’s not something you want to whip out at a community board meeting.

]]> By: Brooklyn Dad http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47973 Brooklyn Dad Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:56:50 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47973 Stuff it, Jan. The editorial content of this cartoon is mainstream thought today in all but the most benighted circles. Think about the connection between your own automobile dependence and American boys dying to protect our international oil supply every time you turn your ignition key. If that thought gives you uncomfortable feelings, you can try to blame it on a "self righteous" cartoonist. Or you can do something about it. Stuff it, Jan. The editorial content of this cartoon is mainstream thought today in all but the most benighted circles. Think about the connection between your own automobile dependence and American boys dying to protect our international oil supply every time you turn your ignition key. If that thought gives you uncomfortable feelings, you can try to blame it on a “self righteous” cartoonist. Or you can do something about it.

]]> By: 67% http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47963 67% Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:55:09 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47963 Don't forget 67% of New Yorkers supported the mayor's plan to use congestion pricing to help pay for transit. Repeat 67%. It would have won if the public voted on it referendum style. Congestion pricing had the backing of the broadest coalition of interest groups seen in memory, perhaps ever, in New York City. It passed City Council. It was an answer. Don’t forget 67% of New Yorkers supported the mayor’s plan to use congestion pricing to help pay for transit. Repeat 67%. It would have won if the public voted on it referendum style. Congestion pricing had the backing of the broadest coalition of interest groups seen in memory, perhaps ever, in New York City. It passed City Council. It was an answer.

]]> By: Mark http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47962 Mark Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:41:16 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47962 What I like about the cartoon, in addition to its pointedness, is the way it ties together things happening on the local, national, and international levels -- revealing the car to be not just a personal transportation option but a whole world-view. Andy Singer emboldens us to embrace a different world-view. Good work. What I like about the cartoon, in addition to its pointedness, is the way it ties together things happening on the local, national, and international levels — revealing the car to be not just a personal transportation option but a whole world-view. Andy Singer emboldens us to embrace a different world-view. Good work.

]]> By: Jan http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47960 Jan Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:50:26 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47960 You are going to lose fence sitters by posting this type of cartoon. Were it this simple! Its not this simple and if you don't know that you (and we) are in big trouble. This is polarizing and if that is the way you viewed CP then that is why CP lost. If you want to go down this feel sorry for yourselves route, good luck. Oh yeah, its also incredibly self-righteous as though anyone who disagrees with CP is pro-war. Fools. You are going to lose fence sitters by posting this type of cartoon. Were it this simple! Its not this simple and if you don’t know that you (and we) are in big trouble. This is polarizing and if that is the way you viewed CP then that is why CP lost. If you want to go down this feel sorry for yourselves route, good luck. Oh yeah, its also incredibly self-righteous as though anyone who disagrees with CP is pro-war. Fools.

]]> By: JK http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47936 JK Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:03:14 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47936 Tuesday Toons is a great feature! Tuesday Toons is a great feature!

]]> By: Konrad http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-47934 Konrad Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:41:20 +0000 http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/04/08/cartoon-tuesday-pricing-post-mortem-edition/#comment-47934 Really? What's over the top about it? Really? What’s over the top about it?

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