Likewise, once the system was in place, there's no reason why, at a later date, the fee couldn't be raised over and above the PA tolls to discourage even more traffic.

Yet, another reason why it got shot down -- because nobody really believed it would stay at $8 for very long.

NJ drivers would have been putting about $45 million per year in the congestion pricing kitty. Off-peak PA tolls were still lower than the congestion fee. Aggarwala described it in detail before City Council. I think you can find some of that here on Streetsblog.

Likewise, once the system was in place, there's no reason why, at a later date, the fee couldn't be raised over and above the PA tolls to discourage even more traffic.

Pricing also would have discouarged a huge amount of traffic from using Canal Street and Lower Manhattan to access the Holland Tunnel westbound.

It's just a bogus argument, Spud.

The Assembly's busy with the budget right now but I'm sure they'll unveil their plan before they break for the summer.

Having "debated" CP for a year, their plan should have a whole lot of collective wisdom.

* Consider running yourself or identify potential candidates to challenge incumbents.

This arrogant f***er is either aggressively anti-transit or just a posturing sleazebag political maniac. There is no doubt in my mind that New York would be a MUCH better place without him. He should burn for this.

Yup. But since the state legislature made all the other decisions and non-decisions that have led to disaster, I wouldn't mind them being blamed for that too. If they passed CP, they might have avoided it.

For what happens now, look to two other "defeats."

Silver stopped the Olympics and Jets Stadium. Then to show they weren't anti-everything, the state legislature waived through big subsidies for three other stadia.

The City Council voted down a City Planning proposal to make it easier to open new large stores, intended to get large supermarkets with more access to better, cheaper food to poor neighborhoods.

But since then they have waived through large store after large store, as long as they do not allow more access to better, cheaper food near poor neighborhoods and thus compete with the existing purveyors who gave them money. Whole Foods, Trader Joes and Fairway yes, decent cheap food for the poor no.

So, there is no sense trying to resurrect CP. There is sense in leveraging outrage over its rejection, particularly as fiscal consequences emerge, to go after other things.

And LL, I don't know where the MTA will make up the anticipated deficit in its operating budget. But wasn't CP money supposed to be exclusively for capital costs anyway?

If CP is so great, why should it stop now? Because of $354 million? Shouldn't a new plan be drafted and proposed or shouldn't the same one be tailored for passage regardless of the loss of the federal money?

Sure, if the goal were really congestion pricing. But that isn't the goal, and never was. The goals were: reducing pollution, keeping congestion from dragging our economy down, and reducing the number of deaths and injuries. These goals are necessary to our quality of life; there's no way we could abandon them.

http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/04/douglas-adams-wrote-that-in-infinite.html

I thought of that. But it would have to be organized ahead, and those who drive in normally could frustrate it by just staying home (or taking transit).

A typical level -- $400 million or so.

But we may not get typical. Commercial real estate transactions have just about stopped.

So where are you going to get the $1 billion to prevent a transit shutdown, before the capital plan is even considered? Borrow it? Blow all the money for the Hudson Yards in one year, IF Tishman can finance the purpose (good luck with that).

I say just shut the system down when the money runs out, and demand that the promised $billions appear. I'll bike in.

I just told you that I'm for taking space away from cars, which is a change of heart for me (my fault if I didn't make that clear). I've stated many times that I would support traffic reduction measures that don't make it government policy to use "who has the most money" to determine who gets to do what. I really do see things much differently these days and I can't be the only one.

Take the car space away = compel more people to use transit + environmental benefits = more fare revenue for transit + demands for more service = more government money allocated to transit. Sounds like a plan, though it will take time. CP was never the silver bullet people like Kathy Wylde made it out to be, though it had its benefits.

So if it makes you feel any better you are making progress on livable streets issues even if it's slower than you would like. As for the situation in Albany, I really don't know. I'm still in the depression stage over the whole Spitzer "Day One Everything Changes" implosion the same way you're in the anger stage over CP.

Our state assembly obviously doesn't think it's necessary to discourage unnecessary driving, so why don't we make Friday, May 16 into Take a Car to Work Day (formerly Bike to Work Day).

Millions of New Yorkers who normally take transit, ride bikes, or walk can switch to cars (or cabs) for the day. That will be our environmental impact statement. Let's see how that works out for us.

Bloomberg and Quinn have created an appetite for congestion mitigation measures that were probably unpalatable in the City Council a year ago. They ought to capitalize.

I keep getting calls from various Democratic organizations saying how great it would be to finally end the Republican control of the State Senate, and asking for my financial support.

They can count me out as of this morning. Sheldon Silver needs to be a) voted out of office, b) deprived of his majority, or c) term limited.

We're off the took and you are on it Spud. I hope that you will not be opposing any alternatives that come along in the wake of CP.

Being against everything is easy, but dishonest.

Fare hikes? Tax increases? Service cuts. I am opposed. You must be in favor.

After all, what did you do to oppose all those debts the MTA ran up over 15 years? I left a job and ran against the state legislature, costing my family 9 months income. Did you do so also? Those are your debts, not mine.

I'll give Streetsblog credit for making me more aware of these issues. Even though I oppose huge increases in parking fees for the same reason I'm pleased that CP went down in flames, you're making progress if you can open the eyes of a stubborn guy like me. I hope the transition from anger to bargaining to depression to acceptance will be an easy one.