Comments on: City Council Passes Congestion Pricing. Next Stop: Albany.

By: Justin

Justin — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:47:14 +0000

People from NJ already have to pay tolls to drive into city, and certainly trucks and other businesses do. The only people who can access Manhattan without paying tolls is certain people coming off Queens and Brooklyn.

But if you can afford a car in NYC, and if you can afford gas drive around with today's gas prices, then that means congestion taxes may not deter anyone from driving.

I'm told from someone from London that congestion polls did reduce traffic in London initially, but then it went back to it's originally level.

It will be the same in NYC. All this does is give the MTA additional revenues. An $8 per day charge is 40 dollars a week. Most drivers spend a lot more than that on gas, and you cannot charge really high taxes because a lot of vehicles must enter the city (trucks and all) for business purposes. Also, certain messenger services need cars. I worked on a film set, and that equipment has to be moved around by car or van.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:40:49 +0000

Maybe de Blasio can really stick up for taxpayers by cancelling this $850 million Belt Parkway boondoggle:

http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/04/cut-it-loose-shore-parkway.html

By: Benjamin

Benjamin — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:28:37 +0000

Thank you Bill de Blasio for sticking up for taxpayers. Congestion pricing is a sham and you were intelligent enough to realize it. Thank you.

By: dave

dave — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:32:31 +0000

if all goes well.
when we will actually start paying for the toll?

By: Carolyn Konheim

Carolyn Konheim — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:55:16 +0000

Responses:
#28 I agree, the fee should be inflation adjusted. As it is, it will have no effect on the 30% who now pay $8. But according to Jeanette Sadik-Khan, any increase would require legislative approval and s repeat of the current ordeal.
#39 - An $8 fee one way, split among three motorists, = $1.33 each way, much less than average $1.76 Metrocard fare. Since half the auto entries have 2 or more people, there's no price incentive for them to change. Since the SOVs mostly come from the fringes where the only options are $10/round trip express buses or $12/round trip commuter rail lines, there's no price incentive for them either.
#47 - Agreed. The cost at all entries must be uniform and should be all inbound to avoid the current distorted traffic patterns, but we're starting out with the base (cash) toll on MTA crossings at $10. And it may not be apparent to drivers that they can't evade an outbound $4 MTA toll by exiting over a free bridge because, I am told, that the $4 credit will only be deducted when they pay the exit toll.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:32:24 +0000

Considering that there are some folks in positions of power (with designs on positions of more power) who would like to see CP killed, I'm really hoping this gets moved as quickly as reasonably possible so that people have the chance to see its benefits before it might get the axe.

By: rhubarbpie

rhubarbpie — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:10:13 +0000

Nice job, folks! On to Albany!

By: Doc Barnett

Doc Barnett — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:00:44 +0000

The worst part of the Soho residents' assault on Streetsblog was that there was one commenter that seemed to sincerely express this opinion, but on the internet you never really know. Super-wealthy, frequent drivers are an irrelevant fringe element of c.p. support (it's surprising how far up the income ladder the $8 opposition goes) and if they hang out here they are very quiet. Most Manhattan car owners are relieved they can motor around the UES without paying (for now) because that is where they live. Most of them oppose c.p. despite that. All of them are in the minority, being car owners. But please do join us on the subway sometime, the economy car that puts the economy of your car to shame. Less traffic for everyone: Thank God!

By: uSkyscraper

uSkyscraper — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:05:19 +0000

Cap'n -- points taken. Your blog post makes a good argument. I'll stop complaining about the PA tolls - I just have to shift my viewpoint from trying to deter NJ traffic from today's commuting patterns to accepting that today's traffic are already existing in a deterred state and we are now waiting for the NY side to catch up. I would love to see less traffic on the GW/HT/LT rather than maintain the current heavy volumes, which I consider unacceptable in terms of congestion and pollution, but so be it. As for PA spending on mass transit, if the situation is that there will effectively be two separate pools of CP funds (city and PA's internal one), both of which are spending money on transit, fine. I happen to have worked with the PA and do not trust them as far as I can throw them, but we'll just have to hope for the best. If that toll money ends up developing Stewart Airport instead of a fantasy tunnel, that's the risk we take.

By: Spud Spudly

Spud Spudly — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:59:05 +0000

That's it, you guys finally did it. I was finally motivated to write to Shelly Silver to urge him to kill this thing and to come up with a more equitable method of traffic control. I doubt he'll listen to any of us, but what the heck.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:24:14 +0000

Also, the people who write the software aren't that stupid. If someone goes round-trip through the Queens-Midtown tunnel, it will show that they paid $10, so no additional congestion pricing charge will be deducted. Remember, it's done on a daily basis with EZ-Pass, not a per-toll basis.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:20:47 +0000

Uskyscraper, can you stop implying that the PA isn't paying for mass transit? From that $2 increase, $3 billion is going to the new train tunnel, and $3.3 billion is going to increase capacity on the PATH trains by 20%:

http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2008/03/speaker-silver-and-port-authority.html

By: Zach

Zach — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:17:53 +0000

re Jaime (#39): If you have three people driving to Midtown, the fee three ways is $2.66 -- on a daily basis, that's less than a monthly MetroCard! More power to you for carpooling, anyway, getting in from Rockaway is a big pain.

By: uSkyscraper

uSkyscraper — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:49:37 +0000

It's important to get congestion pricing passed as a first step, but for the love of God please take the opportunity now to make the system truly fair and ensure all contribute to the stated three goals ("cleaning the air, reducing traffic and paying for mass transit"). 1) Make the tolls uniform so that there are no distortions. All tolls should be in one direction only so that you don't pay $13 to come and go via QMT but only $8 via Holland Tunnel. 2) The PA should give the "peak" part of its tolls (i.e. the $2 on top of $6 off-peak) to CP so that it the NJ commuters are doing their part to pay for mass transit. Threaten their WTC or other projects if they don't play ball.

By: ManhattanDowntowner

ManhattanDowntowner — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:28:28 +0000

True reflection on what NYC really wants!

In regard to those councilmembers who voted Yes on Congestion Pricing:

The NY1 poll results, taken right after the NY City Council gave the nod on congestion pricing, represent how NY'ers REALLY feel. There was obviously MUCH sellout/give back action going on at the City Council.
--------------------------
The NY1 snap poll question:

If your council member voted "yes" on congestion pricing, will you support him/her in the future?

Yes 33.0%

No 66.0%

Councilmembers who voted Yes, against their constituency, on congestion pricing will lose their supporters by a ratio of 2:1.

Voter registration drive, anyone?

By: Hilary

Hilary — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:45:47 +0000

And if you live in the policemen's community at Breezy Point, I think you're slated to get a highly subsidized ferry. In fact the transit should be so good that real estate values should soar. Can outsiders buy one of those charming bungalows on the sandy roads near the most beautiful beach on the east coast?!

By: Larry Littlefield

Larry Littlefield — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:26:43 +0000

(Don't live in Far Rockaway if you commute to the city.)

You might mean the other end of the Rockaways. If East Side Access gets built, providing the LIRR with a choice of GCT or Penn, Far Rockway will have a pretty good Midtown commute.

By: Choose wisely

Choose wisely — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:18:44 +0000

Don't live in Far Rockaway if you commute to the city. If you do and you want to drive, then you pay to pollute and congestion our streets - PERIOD

By: ddartley

ddartley — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:11:06 +0000

brooklyn and i:

air pollution generally blows west to east. Shameful Simcha Felder's voted to reduce airborne toxins to blow over you and the kids in your neighborhood. Fewer trips to "all hospitals!"

By: mike

mike — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:04:15 +0000

Reading all the comments from the CP opposition, one would think that all the residents of Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island and the Bronx are all terribly sick and that the only doctors are in Manhattan!