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	<title>Comments on: Two Ways to Tell the Story of Congestion Pricing</title>
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	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
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		<title>By: Gizler</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46431</link>
		<dc:creator>Gizler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46431</guid>
		<description>Mayor Weiner would be a livable cities disaster. I&#039;m not sure who would be better though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mayor Weiner would be a livable cities disaster. I&#8217;m not sure who would be better though.</p>
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		<title>By: non-economist</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46423</link>
		<dc:creator>non-economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46423</guid>
		<description>Shouldn&#039;t the opportunity cost of the investment in road right of ways, parking, and infrastructure have to also be factored into the &quot;cost&quot; of automobile dependency? Otherwise it would seem to be like a the owner of a million dollar home with no mortgage believing his housing costs nothing.

Not to mention the cost of defending the sources of oil..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t the opportunity cost of the investment in road right of ways, parking, and infrastructure have to also be factored into the &#8220;cost&#8221; of automobile dependency? Otherwise it would seem to be like a the owner of a million dollar home with no mortgage believing his housing costs nothing.</p>
<p>Not to mention the cost of defending the sources of oil..</p>
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		<title>By: choking breather</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46399</link>
		<dc:creator>choking breather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46399</guid>
		<description>Jack,

It is true that drivers pay more than what gets spent on road construction.  But road construction is not the only cost of driving.  Drivers will likely never pay enough to remedy the health effects of the air pollution they generate.

Road pricing is a great idea, but it needs to be combined with an overall tax system that is progressive and far more transit than is being funded and planned.  Right now, if you add up all of the taxes people pay, it is regressive.  Having the poor subsidize the rich and then making it too expensive for them to drive is a terrible overall policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack,</p>
<p>It is true that drivers pay more than what gets spent on road construction.  But road construction is not the only cost of driving.  Drivers will likely never pay enough to remedy the health effects of the air pollution they generate.</p>
<p>Road pricing is a great idea, but it needs to be combined with an overall tax system that is progressive and far more transit than is being funded and planned.  Right now, if you add up all of the taxes people pay, it is regressive.  Having the poor subsidize the rich and then making it too expensive for them to drive is a terrible overall policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Mallinckrodt</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46397</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Mallinckrodt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46397</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any problem with the concept that drivers should pay for the road system.  The problem is, they already are much more than doing so.

If you compare the total (Fed+State+Local) annual (capital + ops) expenditures for roads  to the sum of all the tax payments made by drivers to government as a necessary condition (de facto or dejure) of their use of automobiles on roads, (i.e. user fees by any common understanding of the term) the tax payments exceed the road expenditures by amounts of most recently, in 2004, $66 billion.  Thats a 45% government PROFIT from its roads operation.   

Chances are you don&#039;t believe this.  Check out the details and why at .

Jack 

on&#039;t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any problem with the concept that drivers should pay for the road system.  The problem is, they already are much more than doing so.</p>
<p>If you compare the total (Fed+State+Local) annual (capital + ops) expenditures for roads  to the sum of all the tax payments made by drivers to government as a necessary condition (de facto or dejure) of their use of automobiles on roads, (i.e. user fees by any common understanding of the term) the tax payments exceed the road expenditures by amounts of most recently, in 2004, $66 billion.  Thats a 45% government PROFIT from its roads operation.   </p>
<p>Chances are you don&#8217;t believe this.  Check out the details and why at .</p>
<p>Jack </p>
<p>on&#8217;t</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Replogle</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46390</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Replogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46390</guid>
		<description>USDOT&#039;s Urban Partnership Agreement Program has provided a valuable incentive for local leaders like Mayor Bloomberg to advance sensible congestion pricing on existing roads supporting better transit and smarter traffic management. 

Senator Hilary Clinton&#039;s infrastructure policy statement several months ago called for increasing funding for that program. Let&#039;s hope that more Congressional leaders and the next President will step forward to expand these kinds of performance-based funding strategies, rather than looking to just allocate more money without asking what results will flow from it. 

We can no longer afford to throw ever more funding for road and transit investments without first considering if these will help meet our goals, whether to reduce greenhouse gas emissions or to cut congestion and expand travel choices. 

It&#039;s unfortunate that DOT Secretary Mary Peters has at times alienated many transit, bicycling, and smart growth advocates. Under her leadership, DOT has too often overlooked the role transit investments can play in economic development and how transportation policies and planning can help reduce greenhouse gas emissions and sprawl. But if the Urban Partnership Program suceeds in helping Mayor Bloomberg implement congestion pricing in New York, it will be a major advance for sustainable transportation policy in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USDOT&#8217;s Urban Partnership Agreement Program has provided a valuable incentive for local leaders like Mayor Bloomberg to advance sensible congestion pricing on existing roads supporting better transit and smarter traffic management. </p>
<p>Senator Hilary Clinton&#8217;s infrastructure policy statement several months ago called for increasing funding for that program. Let&#8217;s hope that more Congressional leaders and the next President will step forward to expand these kinds of performance-based funding strategies, rather than looking to just allocate more money without asking what results will flow from it. </p>
<p>We can no longer afford to throw ever more funding for road and transit investments without first considering if these will help meet our goals, whether to reduce greenhouse gas emissions or to cut congestion and expand travel choices. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that DOT Secretary Mary Peters has at times alienated many transit, bicycling, and smart growth advocates. Under her leadership, DOT has too often overlooked the role transit investments can play in economic development and how transportation policies and planning can help reduce greenhouse gas emissions and sprawl. But if the Urban Partnership Program suceeds in helping Mayor Bloomberg implement congestion pricing in New York, it will be a major advance for sustainable transportation policy in America.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46387</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46387</guid>
		<description>To me, the wonder is that the proposition that &quot;tolls paid by motorists, not tax dollars, should be used to construct and maintain roads&quot; is considered so outlandish. Do not the authors live in a market economy? Do they not get their food, their water, their blogs, and their other necessities, from private suppliers? Is the governmental system of supplying roads so good that it has to be taken for granted?

Gabriel Roth
[Editor of  &quot;Street Smart — Competition, Entrepreneurship and the Future of Roads&quot;, which was included in Planetizen&#039;s list of the Top 10 planning books of 2007.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the wonder is that the proposition that &#8220;tolls paid by motorists, not tax dollars, should be used to construct and maintain roads&#8221; is considered so outlandish. Do not the authors live in a market economy? Do they not get their food, their water, their blogs, and their other necessities, from private suppliers? Is the governmental system of supplying roads so good that it has to be taken for granted?</p>
<p>Gabriel Roth<br />
[Editor of  "Street Smart — Competition, Entrepreneurship and the Future of Roads", which was included in Planetizen's list of the Top 10 planning books of 2007.]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Turmail</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46373</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Turmail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46373</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s important to note that the Post got it wrong about the Department&#039;s position on transit.  For example, this Administration has actually invested more money into more miles of new transit projects than any administration in history.  It&#039;s also increased funding for rural transit services by more than 70 percent. 

In addition, our Urban Partnership grants are designed to reduce traffic, improve the environment and enhance transit in five of America’s most congested cities.  In New York alone, congestion pricing will generate over $350 million a year to support new transit facilities and services while significantly reducing CO2 emissions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s important to note that the Post got it wrong about the Department&#8217;s position on transit.  For example, this Administration has actually invested more money into more miles of new transit projects than any administration in history.  It&#8217;s also increased funding for rural transit services by more than 70 percent. </p>
<p>In addition, our Urban Partnership grants are designed to reduce traffic, improve the environment and enhance transit in five of America’s most congested cities.  In New York alone, congestion pricing will generate over $350 million a year to support new transit facilities and services while significantly reducing CO2 emissions.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46363</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46363</guid>
		<description>It appears I posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/todays-headlines-364/#comment-46361&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my screed&lt;/a&gt; to the wrong thread!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears I posted <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/todays-headlines-364/#comment-46361" rel="nofollow">my screed</a> to the wrong thread!</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-46359</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Littlefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/20/two-ways-to-tell-the-story-of-congestion-pricing/#comment-46359</guid>
		<description>Having motorists pay for the use of roads is not inherently anti-transit.  If anything, this issue shows how the government has intervened in the market to redistribute income up.

Imagine that over the past 100 years all that government road building, most of it paid for by general rather than gas taxes (especially at the state and local level) and some of it funded by taxes paid by private transit companies, had not taken place, and instead roads had been privately funded.

Private companies would have done what they do in other cases -- offer discounts to encourage use at off peak times, higher prices at peak, and volume discounts.  Rather than continuing to build to try to meet demand until it became impossible and congestion soared, they would have built less and tried to manage demand.

So at peak hours, you would have had billionaires and buses on the road, the latter (perhaps operated by the road owners) getting a volume discount based on their low road and parking space per passenger, the former paying through the nose.

I chose public service as a career early on, but have become disillusioned -- not that I have much better to say about business.  The era when government intervened to increase equality and opportunity was a brief one, and has come to an end.  Public institutions are entirely captured by the placard holders, the way business has been captured by rapacious executives to sit on each other&#039;s boards and up each other&#039;s pay.

If the rush hour motorists won&#039;t pay for the roads, then I and others far less off will have to.  As in education, health care, social security, etc. we&#039;ll be taxed more and more and get less and less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having motorists pay for the use of roads is not inherently anti-transit.  If anything, this issue shows how the government has intervened in the market to redistribute income up.</p>
<p>Imagine that over the past 100 years all that government road building, most of it paid for by general rather than gas taxes (especially at the state and local level) and some of it funded by taxes paid by private transit companies, had not taken place, and instead roads had been privately funded.</p>
<p>Private companies would have done what they do in other cases &#8212; offer discounts to encourage use at off peak times, higher prices at peak, and volume discounts.  Rather than continuing to build to try to meet demand until it became impossible and congestion soared, they would have built less and tried to manage demand.</p>
<p>So at peak hours, you would have had billionaires and buses on the road, the latter (perhaps operated by the road owners) getting a volume discount based on their low road and parking space per passenger, the former paying through the nose.</p>
<p>I chose public service as a career early on, but have become disillusioned &#8212; not that I have much better to say about business.  The era when government intervened to increase equality and opportunity was a brief one, and has come to an end.  Public institutions are entirely captured by the placard holders, the way business has been captured by rapacious executives to sit on each other&#8217;s boards and up each other&#8217;s pay.</p>
<p>If the rush hour motorists won&#8217;t pay for the roads, then I and others far less off will have to.  As in education, health care, social security, etc. we&#8217;ll be taxed more and more and get less and less.</p>
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