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	<title>Comments on: Hit by a Car While Biking? Don&#8217;t Waste the NYPD&#8217;s Time</title>
	<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/</link>
	<description>Covering the New York City Streets Renaissance</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

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		<title>By: grinner</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47917</link>
		<author>grinner</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47917</guid>
		<description>No no, getting hit by a car is not a liberal thing to do.  Not blaming the victim, though: now THAT is a totally liberal act.

It's ok, P.  I'm sure that Are You All Street Lawyers will take stick to her/his position when it is her/his nephew/son/niece/daughter strapped to "the board" for the ride to the ER, or looking at her/his mangled fork.  As such a strong supporter of the way things are, i'm sure that a personal experience won't shake her/his faith at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No no, getting hit by a car is not a liberal thing to do.  Not blaming the victim, though: now THAT is a totally liberal act.</p>
<p>It's ok, P.  I'm sure that Are You All Street Lawyers will take stick to her/his position when it is her/his nephew/son/niece/daughter strapped to "the board" for the ride to the ER, or looking at her/his mangled fork.  As such a strong supporter of the way things are, i'm sure that a personal experience won't shake her/his faith at all.</p>
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		<title>By: P</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47815</link>
		<author>P</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47815</guid>
		<description>Getting hit by a car is a &lt;i&gt;liberal&lt;/i&gt; thing to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting hit by a car is a <i>liberal</i> thing to do?</p>
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		<title>By: Are you all street lawyers?</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47666</link>
		<author>Are you all street lawyers?</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47666</guid>
		<description>hey you liberals...it's not an excuse. you've all read and are proficient with the VTL i assume? since you all have so much to say i take it that you know what the VTL even stands for? traffic infractions, even in regard to accidents, MUST BE WITNESSED!! they are INFRACTIONS. the police cannot go to traffic court and testify that an infraction occurred (justifying summonses issued) that they DID NOT SEE! hey, criminal justice 101. EVEN I KNOW THAT. no wonder the police are irritated with you. don't tell them what their job is. and the cops don't charge $10 for the report. THANK YOUR MAYOR. "IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE THOUGHT A FOOL, THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT." do your homework before you bash the police. everyone has something to say... go take the test and see if you can do a better job. i pity the NYPD. they exhibit TREMENDOUS self-control and restraint. you talk garbage... you have NO IDEA about being a police officer. you apparently can't even ride a bike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey you liberals...it's not an excuse. you've all read and are proficient with the VTL i assume? since you all have so much to say i take it that you know what the VTL even stands for? traffic infractions, even in regard to accidents, MUST BE WITNESSED!! they are INFRACTIONS. the police cannot go to traffic court and testify that an infraction occurred (justifying summonses issued) that they DID NOT SEE! hey, criminal justice 101. EVEN I KNOW THAT. no wonder the police are irritated with you. don't tell them what their job is. and the cops don't charge $10 for the report. THANK YOUR MAYOR. "IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE THOUGHT A FOOL, THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT." do your homework before you bash the police. everyone has something to say... go take the test and see if you can do a better job. i pity the NYPD. they exhibit TREMENDOUS self-control and restraint. you talk garbage... you have NO IDEA about being a police officer. you apparently can't even ride a bike.</p>
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		<title>By: galvo</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47624</link>
		<author>galvo</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47624</guid>
		<description>some incorrect  information posted here in this thread concerning no fault in NYS. First you do not need to worry about having private medical insurance if you are hit by a vehicle . 
The medical bills are paid for by no fault in new york state. As a bicyclist or pedestrian you are covered by no fault, that is why even with a hit and run, report it immediately and get witnesses, there is a fund for your medical under no fault in hit and runs.
nys no fault has nothing to do with damage to the car or bicycle, that is a totally a   different  insurance matter. No fault is  basic medical and lost wages.
if you have private  medical insurance ,when they find out it was an auto crash they will ask for their money back for all expenses paid. Another reason why you have to pursue the no fault medical matter.
this may not be 100 percent correct, but i heard that you have a much better chance of getting no fault treatment such as mri and cat scans right after the crash, if you are brought to the ER.
I believe if you wait and see your own doc  and they send you for a mri, they are now concerned if they are going to get paid and will ask for the insurance company approval first. In the ER they know how to handle and bill for car crashes. Motorcyclist are not covered by no fault in NYS, but i believe a ped or bicyclist is, if they are hit.That would have to be clarified with a lawyer.
a suggestion and this is pure hind site. If you are able to take a picture of your bike under the car or have someone else do so, maybe that would help. everybody has a cellphone camera.
i dont know for sure but a picture of the crushed  bike under the wheels and bike lane in the background background, may enhance a diagram, and strengthen any claim .
 if i came across any ped injury or bike injury i would  take a lot of pictures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some incorrect  information posted here in this thread concerning no fault in NYS. First you do not need to worry about having private medical insurance if you are hit by a vehicle .<br />
The medical bills are paid for by no fault in new york state. As a bicyclist or pedestrian you are covered by no fault, that is why even with a hit and run, report it immediately and get witnesses, there is a fund for your medical under no fault in hit and runs.<br />
nys no fault has nothing to do with damage to the car or bicycle, that is a totally a   different  insurance matter. No fault is  basic medical and lost wages.<br />
if you have private  medical insurance ,when they find out it was an auto crash they will ask for their money back for all expenses paid. Another reason why you have to pursue the no fault medical matter.<br />
this may not be 100 percent correct, but i heard that you have a much better chance of getting no fault treatment such as mri and cat scans right after the crash, if you are brought to the ER.<br />
I believe if you wait and see your own doc  and they send you for a mri, they are now concerned if they are going to get paid and will ask for the insurance company approval first. In the ER they know how to handle and bill for car crashes. Motorcyclist are not covered by no fault in NYS, but i believe a ped or bicyclist is, if they are hit.That would have to be clarified with a lawyer.<br />
a suggestion and this is pure hind site. If you are able to take a picture of your bike under the car or have someone else do so, maybe that would help. everybody has a cellphone camera.<br />
i dont know for sure but a picture of the crushed  bike under the wheels and bike lane in the background background, may enhance a diagram, and strengthen any claim .<br />
 if i came across any ped injury or bike injury i would  take a lot of pictures.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47607</link>
		<author>ben</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-47607</guid>
		<description>I live in pa and got hit by a car on the 23 of march. my arm and leg were broken. I'm now imoblized for 6 weeks. it was a state road and the state cop took 40 min. to get there and didn't really care. the man who hit me didn't brake and he wanted to make sure i paid for his damages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in pa and got hit by a car on the 23 of march. my arm and leg were broken. I'm now imoblized for 6 weeks. it was a state road and the state cop took 40 min. to get there and didn't really care. the man who hit me didn't brake and he wanted to make sure i paid for his damages.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-46149</link>
		<author>Jim</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-46149</guid>
		<description>NYS law dictates an officer must see a violation in order to write a summons except in the case of leaving the scene of an accident.  the case is diffrent in florida where an officer MUST issue a summons at all accidents weather he sees it or not.  the officers made a wise choice not to purger themselves as it is a misdemenor to do so.  the bottom of a traffic summons states that and an officer does sign it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NYS law dictates an officer must see a violation in order to write a summons except in the case of leaving the scene of an accident.  the case is diffrent in florida where an officer MUST issue a summons at all accidents weather he sees it or not.  the officers made a wise choice not to purger themselves as it is a misdemenor to do so.  the bottom of a traffic summons states that and an officer does sign it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45976</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45976</guid>
		<description>Something like this happened to me.

The good news is that once I went to the precinct to get the $10 report, it contained the motorist's insurance info, and the insurance company bent over backwards to help me.  They fully reimbursed me for bike repair, time lost from work, and all medical treatment.

You should definitely pursue this with the insurance company, even if the cops at the scene sucked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something like this happened to me.</p>
<p>The good news is that once I went to the precinct to get the $10 report, it contained the motorist's insurance info, and the insurance company bent over backwards to help me.  They fully reimbursed me for bike repair, time lost from work, and all medical treatment.</p>
<p>You should definitely pursue this with the insurance company, even if the cops at the scene sucked.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy B from Jersey</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45975</link>
		<author>Andy B from Jersey</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45975</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm....

In New Jersey a citizen can issue a summons to the driver of another vehicle particularly when involved in an accident.  I've done it myself but ended up dropping the charge after the driver did not show up to the first court appearance.

This practice of issue tickets to the other driver involved in an accident is often done to protect one's self from being accused of being at fault.  In my case I clearly wasn't at fault since the other driver went through a stop sign.  I had no stop sign and had the ROW.  Unfortunately I could not avoid hitting her car with my own.

If you don't issue the other driver a ticket even when the accident was clearly not your fault there is always a possibility that the other driver will issue you a ticket as a way to pass the blame.  In may case the other driver could have said that I was speeding or driving without my headlights on in the rain (that's why I wasn't riding my bike); all of which were not true but it becomes a matter of "he said, she said."

This happened to a friend of mine who was involved in an accident that was not her fault.  The accident report clearly indicated so but the other driver issued her a summons on the 29th day after the accident.  The statute of limitations to issue a summons is 30 days in New Jersey.  By the time my friend got the ticket she could not rebut it with a summons of her own against the other driver since it was then beyond the 30 days since the accident.

When I issued the other driver the summons in my case I did the same and issued it on the 29th day.  But again I did it to cover my butt, not so much as to punish her further.  After not showing up for the first court appearance it was no longer worth my time to pursue the charge so I dropped it.

I would imagine that things are somewhat the same in NY so I would suggest trying it.  Also get a lawyer or at least have one review the case.  The other driver's car insurance has tons of them if you pursue this and you'll need  at least someone on your side.

I REALLY hate to sound so litigious but if criminal justice system won't protect bicyclists and pedestrians then we have no choice but to pursue justice in the civil courts.

Just my 2 cents.

Good Luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm....</p>
<p>In New Jersey a citizen can issue a summons to the driver of another vehicle particularly when involved in an accident.  I've done it myself but ended up dropping the charge after the driver did not show up to the first court appearance.</p>
<p>This practice of issue tickets to the other driver involved in an accident is often done to protect one's self from being accused of being at fault.  In my case I clearly wasn't at fault since the other driver went through a stop sign.  I had no stop sign and had the ROW.  Unfortunately I could not avoid hitting her car with my own.</p>
<p>If you don't issue the other driver a ticket even when the accident was clearly not your fault there is always a possibility that the other driver will issue you a ticket as a way to pass the blame.  In may case the other driver could have said that I was speeding or driving without my headlights on in the rain (that's why I wasn't riding my bike); all of which were not true but it becomes a matter of "he said, she said."</p>
<p>This happened to a friend of mine who was involved in an accident that was not her fault.  The accident report clearly indicated so but the other driver issued her a summons on the 29th day after the accident.  The statute of limitations to issue a summons is 30 days in New Jersey.  By the time my friend got the ticket she could not rebut it with a summons of her own against the other driver since it was then beyond the 30 days since the accident.</p>
<p>When I issued the other driver the summons in my case I did the same and issued it on the 29th day.  But again I did it to cover my butt, not so much as to punish her further.  After not showing up for the first court appearance it was no longer worth my time to pursue the charge so I dropped it.</p>
<p>I would imagine that things are somewhat the same in NY so I would suggest trying it.  Also get a lawyer or at least have one review the case.  The other driver's car insurance has tons of them if you pursue this and you'll need  at least someone on your side.</p>
<p>I REALLY hate to sound so litigious but if criminal justice system won't protect bicyclists and pedestrians then we have no choice but to pursue justice in the civil courts.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45974</link>
		<author>Tim</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45974</guid>
		<description>That 2nd ave bike lane is extremely dangerous - I usually find it safer just to ride in the vehicle lane.  Cars are continuously double parking or using it as a left turn lane, making the traffic pattern unpredictable to cyclists.  Until Bloomberg decides to enforce bicycle lanes against drivers, they are almost useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That 2nd ave bike lane is extremely dangerous - I usually find it safer just to ride in the vehicle lane.  Cars are continuously double parking or using it as a left turn lane, making the traffic pattern unpredictable to cyclists.  Until Bloomberg decides to enforce bicycle lanes against drivers, they are almost useless.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45963</link>
		<author>Jonathan</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45963</guid>
		<description>Jessica, my auto insurance policy covers me (and everyone in my household) for motor vehicle accidents, &lt;i&gt;whether we were driving or not&lt;/i&gt;. It might be worth looking into a touring policy; that's the kind for people who don't own a car of their own but want coverage.

do you smell bacon, you seem to get in an awful lot of accidents, by the way. Maybe it's time to take a cue from Larry L. and ride less aggressively, friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessica, my auto insurance policy covers me (and everyone in my household) for motor vehicle accidents, <i>whether we were driving or not</i>. It might be worth looking into a touring policy; that's the kind for people who don't own a car of their own but want coverage.</p>
<p>do you smell bacon, you seem to get in an awful lot of accidents, by the way. Maybe it's time to take a cue from Larry L. and ride less aggressively, friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45959</link>
		<author>Jessica</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45959</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for their comments!
As a bicycle commuter in this city for the past 7 years - this is my first time to be hit by a car.

I understand Streetsblog aspect of focusing upon the NYPD in this situation, but I initially contacted Streetsblog to ask if they knew of any precedence about Vehicle on Bicycle Insurance matters, and if it would be absolutely useless to try to be compensated through a drivers insurance - if in fact there were no summons issued/fault given.

They were so kind to respond very quickly with helpful info of people to contact.

Reading through the comments, i feel the need to call out a couple things.
To quote the DOTs city of NYC traffic rules, (downloadable here - http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/traffic_rules.shtml):

Section 4-12
(h)"Accidents involving motor vehicles must be reported as required by the Vehicle and Traffic Law."

(p) Bicycles
   (2) Driving on or across bicycle lanes are prohibited...."Notwithstanding any other rule, no person shall drive a vehicle on or across a designated bicycle lane in such a manner as to interfere with the safety and passage of persons operating bicycles thereon."

As we were both stopped at the same red light together, side by side- me in the bike lane and the driver in the left vehicle traffic lane, I find the negligence to rest upon the driver for not even acknowledging the fact that there was an additional lane of traffic to their left. And in effect - operating a motor vehicle in a densely populated region without looking.

Through the attitudes I experienced, its obvious drivers wont acknowledge bike lanes as traffic until "laws" are enforced, better bike lanes developed &#38; implemented, and proper educational campaigns associated with new infrastructure are in place.

As my accident proved.... the "new" bike lanes the city is creating is the equivalent of beating a dead horse when drivers are not required to even acknowledge them as traffic lanes.

On the NYPD end, I called to receive my accident report number today and the 9th precinct told me to call back in a week.

I agree with you Ed Ravin,"second victimization" effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for their comments!<br />
As a bicycle commuter in this city for the past 7 years - this is my first time to be hit by a car.</p>
<p>I understand Streetsblog aspect of focusing upon the NYPD in this situation, but I initially contacted Streetsblog to ask if they knew of any precedence about Vehicle on Bicycle Insurance matters, and if it would be absolutely useless to try to be compensated through a drivers insurance - if in fact there were no summons issued/fault given.</p>
<p>They were so kind to respond very quickly with helpful info of people to contact.</p>
<p>Reading through the comments, i feel the need to call out a couple things.<br />
To quote the DOTs city of NYC traffic rules, (downloadable here - <a href="http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/traffic_rules.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/traffic_rules.shtml</a>):</p>
<p>Section 4-12<br />
(h)"Accidents involving motor vehicles must be reported as required by the Vehicle and Traffic Law."</p>
<p>(p) Bicycles<br />
   (2) Driving on or across bicycle lanes are prohibited...."Notwithstanding any other rule, no person shall drive a vehicle on or across a designated bicycle lane in such a manner as to interfere with the safety and passage of persons operating bicycles thereon."</p>
<p>As we were both stopped at the same red light together, side by side- me in the bike lane and the driver in the left vehicle traffic lane, I find the negligence to rest upon the driver for not even acknowledging the fact that there was an additional lane of traffic to their left. And in effect - operating a motor vehicle in a densely populated region without looking.</p>
<p>Through the attitudes I experienced, its obvious drivers wont acknowledge bike lanes as traffic until "laws" are enforced, better bike lanes developed &amp; implemented, and proper educational campaigns associated with new infrastructure are in place.</p>
<p>As my accident proved.... the "new" bike lanes the city is creating is the equivalent of beating a dead horse when drivers are not required to even acknowledge them as traffic lanes.</p>
<p>On the NYPD end, I called to receive my accident report number today and the 9th precinct told me to call back in a week.</p>
<p>I agree with you Ed Ravin,"second victimization" effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45956</link>
		<author>Eric</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45956</guid>
		<description>NYPDdad, thanks for the explanation.  And I agree with you that perhaps the law ought to be different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NYPDdad, thanks for the explanation.  And I agree with you that perhaps the law ought to be different.</p>
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		<title>By: ddartley</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45952</link>
		<author>ddartley</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45952</guid>
		<description>Larry (and all), you're right, and one such solution for places like Manhattan's avenues is the bike lane design (two variations) on my www.flickr.com page (ddartley).  

Sorry, I'd provide the URL, but my office has decided to block flickr.

Yeah, the design has been discussed here before, but despite the criticisms, I still think it's a good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry (and all), you're right, and one such solution for places like Manhattan's avenues is the bike lane design (two variations) on my <a href="http://www.flickr.com" rel="nofollow">www.flickr.com</a> page (ddartley).  </p>
<p>Sorry, I'd provide the URL, but my office has decided to block flickr.</p>
<p>Yeah, the design has been discussed here before, but despite the criticisms, I still think it's a good one.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45950</link>
		<author>Larry Littlefield</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45950</guid>
		<description>I think NYPDad's points need to be taken seriously.

(That is a very busy precinct, and there are only three radio cars out at any given time to cover the entire precinct and respond to crimes and other REAL emergencies.)

And, I remind you, that is with NYC having 2 1/2 times the police officers relative to population as the national average, and the number of officers is going down.  So I conclude one cannot count on the police to solve these problems.  The fixes have to be designed in to the street system.

Let's get back to how Jennifer was injured.  

As I ride down the street on a bicycle, a routinely catch up to motor vehicles that have slowed (as it turns out) to make a turn, who then turn in front of me.  Two or three times every day I ride to work, with or without a bike lane.  

They wouldn't make a turn from a center lane in front of motor vehicle, but they do it to a bike, because they do not perceive a "lane" to their right or left, in the direction they are going.

Sometimes they signal, sometimes not.  Depending on the circumstances, I may have been in their blind spot before the turn.  And the driver is looking ahead for pedestrians (or should be).

I could see myself, as a driver, pulling up to an intesection, slowing, looking forward right for motor vehicles, looking forward left for pedestrians, and easing left around a corner --right in front of an overtaking bicycle I never saw.

I haven't been hit because, as a middle-aged guy, I ride slow enough to hit the breaks.  But I think there is an issue requiring a solution here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think NYPDad's points need to be taken seriously.</p>
<p>(That is a very busy precinct, and there are only three radio cars out at any given time to cover the entire precinct and respond to crimes and other REAL emergencies.)</p>
<p>And, I remind you, that is with NYC having 2 1/2 times the police officers relative to population as the national average, and the number of officers is going down.  So I conclude one cannot count on the police to solve these problems.  The fixes have to be designed in to the street system.</p>
<p>Let's get back to how Jennifer was injured.  </p>
<p>As I ride down the street on a bicycle, a routinely catch up to motor vehicles that have slowed (as it turns out) to make a turn, who then turn in front of me.  Two or three times every day I ride to work, with or without a bike lane.  </p>
<p>They wouldn't make a turn from a center lane in front of motor vehicle, but they do it to a bike, because they do not perceive a "lane" to their right or left, in the direction they are going.</p>
<p>Sometimes they signal, sometimes not.  Depending on the circumstances, I may have been in their blind spot before the turn.  And the driver is looking ahead for pedestrians (or should be).</p>
<p>I could see myself, as a driver, pulling up to an intesection, slowing, looking forward right for motor vehicles, looking forward left for pedestrians, and easing left around a corner --right in front of an overtaking bicycle I never saw.</p>
<p>I haven't been hit because, as a middle-aged guy, I ride slow enough to hit the breaks.  But I think there is an issue requiring a solution here.</p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45944</link>
		<author>Stu</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45944</guid>
		<description>I just want to clarify that when the cops are saying that they can't give a ticket because they didn't see the accident, what they mean is that they can't give a ticket for running the red light or whatever the driver did.

And, of course, it's not illegal to get into an accident due to a misjudgment on the behalf of the driver or cyclist.

That's the legal issue at stake here, and that's why enforcement is such a difficult thing to do--they can't give tickets based on peoples' notoriously unreliable and self-serving memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to clarify that when the cops are saying that they can't give a ticket because they didn't see the accident, what they mean is that they can't give a ticket for running the red light or whatever the driver did.</p>
<p>And, of course, it's not illegal to get into an accident due to a misjudgment on the behalf of the driver or cyclist.</p>
<p>That's the legal issue at stake here, and that's why enforcement is such a difficult thing to do--they can't give tickets based on peoples' notoriously unreliable and self-serving memory.</p>
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		<title>By: NYPDdad</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45943</link>
		<author>NYPDdad</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45943</guid>
		<description>It's not ILLEGAL to hit someone with a car unless done recklessly, with criminal negligence or under the influence.  A police officer may not issue a summons for a traffic offense not committed in his or her presence.
Maybe the law should be different, but it isn't.  Sounds like the officers acted in accord with their responsibilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's not ILLEGAL to hit someone with a car unless done recklessly, with criminal negligence or under the influence.  A police officer may not issue a summons for a traffic offense not committed in his or her presence.<br />
Maybe the law should be different, but it isn't.  Sounds like the officers acted in accord with their responsibilities.</p>
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		<title>By: lee</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45942</link>
		<author>lee</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45942</guid>
		<description>um, how about a ticket or two?

it is still illegal to hit someone with your car, isn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>um, how about a ticket or two?</p>
<p>it is still illegal to hit someone with your car, isn't it?</p>
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		<title>By: NYPDdad</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45940</link>
		<author>NYPDdad</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45940</guid>
		<description>What would you have the police do ?  Arrest the driver ?  That is a very busy precinct, and there are only three radio cars out at any given time to cover the entire precinct and respond to crimes and other REAL emergencies.  Apart from taking a reoprt there's nothing the officers could have done.
No crime was apparently committed, and they know that the drivers insurance company will likely compensate you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would you have the police do ?  Arrest the driver ?  That is a very busy precinct, and there are only three radio cars out at any given time to cover the entire precinct and respond to crimes and other REAL emergencies.  Apart from taking a reoprt there's nothing the officers could have done.<br />
No crime was apparently committed, and they know that the drivers insurance company will likely compensate you.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45939</link>
		<author>Eric</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45939</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey, my comment about the bullet hole was to dramatize a point, not to be "overheated."

There's a difference between car-on-car collisions and car-on-bike collisions (or bike-on-pedestrian, as Clover pointed out).  The way insurance works in NYS, when two cars collide (assuming both are actually insured -- that's another story), the insurance companies hash it out, and the accident report comes into play.  But there's no second insurance company in the car-on-bike crash, so of course the cyclist -- Jessica, in this instance -- is going to get screwed.

Which is why the police have to do better than "we didn't see it so we can't do anything."  Witnesses, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey, my comment about the bullet hole was to dramatize a point, not to be "overheated."</p>
<p>There's a difference between car-on-car collisions and car-on-bike collisions (or bike-on-pedestrian, as Clover pointed out).  The way insurance works in NYS, when two cars collide (assuming both are actually insured -- that's another story), the insurance companies hash it out, and the accident report comes into play.  But there's no second insurance company in the car-on-bike crash, so of course the cyclist -- Jessica, in this instance -- is going to get screwed.</p>
<p>Which is why the police have to do better than "we didn't see it so we can't do anything."  Witnesses, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Littlefield</title>
		<link>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45937</link>
		<author>Larry Littlefield</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/03/12/hit-by-a-car-while-biking-dont-waste-the-nypds-time/#comment-45937</guid>
		<description>(I think cops would react to physical injury versus property damage differently.)

What if there were witnesses. everything was accurately described, and the person who hit you got a ticket?

In Upstate New York, not NYC, my brother in law was riding a bicycle and was struck by a woman in an SUV who made a left turn at speed and plowed right into him head on.  Despite the safety glass, he was thrown right through the windshield and would have died had he not been wearing a helmet, and might be crippled had he not been an athlete.

As it is he was badly hurt, hospitalized for a long time, unable to work for a longer time, used up his vacation time, sick time, etc.  He had health insurance, but lots of co-payments.  And his glasses and his bicycle were destroyed.

The woman got a ticket.

Since he had health insurance, the woman's insurance company refused to pay medical bill.  Under no fault, the insurance company paid for his bike and glasses, but not replacement cost -- the value after an accelerated depreciation schedule.  I think he might have received $20 in compensation.

So, how old is your wheel and fork, and how fast to bicycles depreciate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I think cops would react to physical injury versus property damage differently.)</p>
<p>What if there were witnesses. everything was accurately described, and the person who hit you got a ticket?</p>
<p>In Upstate New York, not NYC, my brother in law was riding a bicycle and was struck by a woman in an SUV who made a left turn at speed and plowed right into him head on.  Despite the safety glass, he was thrown right through the windshield and would have died had he not been wearing a helmet, and might be crippled had he not been an athlete.</p>
<p>As it is he was badly hurt, hospitalized for a long time, unable to work for a longer time, used up his vacation time, sick time, etc.  He had health insurance, but lots of co-payments.  And his glasses and his bicycle were destroyed.</p>
<p>The woman got a ticket.</p>
<p>Since he had health insurance, the woman's insurance company refused to pay medical bill.  Under no fault, the insurance company paid for his bike and glasses, but not replacement cost -- the value after an accelerated depreciation schedule.  I think he might have received $20 in compensation.</p>
<p>So, how old is your wheel and fork, and how fast to bicycles depreciate?</p>
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